Opinions - why do people say LSD is so bad?

[big-lester]

Hi, SWIM is an acid user for a year or so, has done it about 15,20 times.
He never had any negative experience with acid.

Now lately, some of SWIM's friends had some bad experienceses on acid. They had a 'bad trip' if you want to call it that. One of his friends took 2 very strong Hoffman blotters at once so it is not that strange but one other friend has done it and had a very awefull experience. He isn't as experieced as swim, Swim has countless experience with shrooms, and has never had a 'bad trip' . What happend was that he felt being enterd by an spirit or so. He tryed to sleep but was getting energy shocks every time he wanted to sleep. At one time it felt as if his joints locked and he couldn't breath. He was alone at his home.

SWIM understands that this is awefull on acid or anything else with a psychedelic effect. But now there is this anti-psychedelic ambience around his friends. They think that it is a real danger to your mental state. Sometimes it looks like they think it is some kind of russian roullette with your mind. But SWIM has never felt better about psychedelics than ever before. He has began to meditate, Reiki and trying too live a bit more like a buddhist. He feels free and balanced on psychedelics. He feels understandment and wisdom on psychedelics.

He can't understand why people are so scared and negative about it. He thinks it is just a way of treating the drug. Now it seems as if he is promoting the psychedelics and as if he is not seeing the dangers, but SWIM knows that there are not any particular dangerous side effects, except for those who have mental problems.

So He was wondering, is it really save for someone with no mental problems (He has been mental checked lately, he's perfectly healthy) to take psychedelics and does it has a dangerous effect on the mental state of someone (with no known mental problems).

Please, don't say just 'yes' or 'no', please tell him why.

TU

PS, it says is LSD bad, but I'm talking about psychedelics in general, but there is no psychedelic forum i guess

[augentier]

There are some really fucked up people who took way too much acid, way too many times..but hey there's that lesson of "moderation" again. SWIY's friends are probably just disturbed about one of their experiences and are the type of people who have trouble letting things go and accepting it as just an experience. It may take them a while to come to terms with what they saw/heard/felt/learned but unless the drug unearthed some nasty psychological condition, they should have nothing to worry about.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Personal 2 cents: psychedelics are, as we all know, "mind manifesting" so I'd think that the question of whether they are good or bad pretty much depends on whether or not one wished for the contents of their mind to manifest. What you got in your mind and do you want to see it? Perhaps not a very helpful answer, but that's all I got. Labmonkey thinks they're good, but he's just a crazy monkey. As far a safety for someone without any mental health issues, I have seen no evidence of adverse effects as long as one doesn't become obsessed with trying to make the two realms of experience (sober and tripping) compatible. This leads people to become a little kooky sometimes.
h.a.

[INSANEPOOKIE]

heretic.ape: You pretty much said all that needs to be stated.

I will add the that having friends you wish to inform should watch this:

Working With Difficult Psychedelic Experiences - Part 1 http://www.livevideo.com/video/3DA49...t-psyched.aspx
And the other two parts that link to the video. The 3 part video tries to explain how and why people have overwhelming experiences aka bad trips.

It's was created from MAPS.org.

[big-lester]

Thank you very much,

I hope that they will calm down on the subject, it is just that Swim doesn't want to trip on his own (not always) and he's scared that everybody will stop using psychedelics. It is just that SWIM really enjoys psychedelics more than any other drug. SWIM guesses He just has to talk alot about it with them. But he says it is like teaching 15 years old that school is very important.

A well, maybe it is just a part of a cycle

Thanks again[/I]

[missyelliott]

SWIM know many people who would do Magic mushrooms but would refuse completely to LSD

what is the big difference? SWIM has never done either but would much like to try...although swim would rather do magic mushrooms over LSD becuase it is shorter lasting but swim thinks it would be easier to get LSD

but why do people say LSD is so much worse than shrooms?

anyone?

[Mint boi]

people are ignorant thats why, and the government blasts the idea at them that lsd will fuck you up for life, that it burns your brain, and will make you jump out your bedroom window. admittadly it is harder to gauge the dose you're getting with lsd so that could be a contributing factor.
also there is a noticable mind set amoung some people that natural substances are in some way safer than synthetic ones

[Nature Boy]

Indeed, ignorance is the answer to your question.

Many people have the notion that psilocybin-containing mushrooms are "safe" and LSD is "dangerous" when in reality their effects are quite similar. Their nicknames could even be a large factor in how their safety is perceived. "Magic" mushrooms sound a lot more pleasant than "acid" and stupid as people are, this simplistic labelling makes a huge difference.

[OccularFantasm]

Pretty much. Swim knows he did mushies before a lot and the specific bag he had was very gentle. For a while he was all about how much gentler mushies were than acid. Then swim got some crazy mushrooms. Now swim doesn't see the difference. As far as swim knows the affinity for different ht receptors is the only difference. For this purpose, they are identical; althought swim still thinks comedown from mushrooms is not as bad as acid. LSD won't dry your brain, don't worry. All it comes down to, is would you rather eat mushrooms or paper.
Swim does think natural things are safer than synthetic things though. It is not to say synthetic things are harmful, it just has a higher affinity to be. For example marinol<marijuana. Why people think a tiny bit of lsd would even qualify as anything, is beyond me. The dose is so small it could be made of pure arsenic and you wouldn't get sick. Therefore, even with the unfounded natural vs synthetic-ers out there, there is no impetus for bias against lsd. LSD can be hidden more easily than mushrooms however. The downside though is that it is also easier to lose them. Pick your poison, or mix n match. The choice is up to you, you'll be fine.

[Nagognog2]

LSD-25 was used by the CIA for several decades before it was declared bad and had to be illegal. They had been trying to use it as a chemical weapon (Fearing the Russians were also), and as a truth syrum. It didn't work for these applications. But it did work to make people oppose the current (Vietnam) war. Hence it was a threat to the economic interests of the corporations that made the bombs and missles.

It remains a pariah in the eyes of the government to this day - for the same reasons.

Same war. Different jungle.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Although I still think you're kinda scary, you rock. ;)

[missyelliott]

hmm, swim can see the way the media has made it out to be evil will affect it

but swim knows people who have done LSD and say its really bad...but love mushrooms...

hmm

[chrisn]

If someone is biased against LSD from the beginning, they probably have a higher chance of not enjoying the trip should they try it.

What do these people say is specifically "bad" about LSD? If it's the fact that they had a bad trip, that is meaningless, as mushrooms have just as much potential for one.

[Twiglet]

Because they know nothing of the beautiful colourful world of L.S.D

[redpoppy]

hey missy!

I understand your dilemma but trust people who have tried both that there is hardly any differrence although it is definitely different.

Just like different mushrooms are different and give people different effects. Some are very giggly and some are very spacey etc.

SWIM prefers LSD to shrooms ANY day of the year however realises that in SWIMs opinion, there are some days when a shorter trip is worthwhile and that sometimes shrooms can offer such unadulterated beauty that swim feels can't be experienced in the same way on LSD.

However swim has never had a bad trip swim does find shrooms to be somewhat isolating in a bad way. Swim can deal with this very well now but kmows there is nothign but joy and confidence even in isolation when LSD is in SWims system.

If you ever visit a website where they have shroom V LSD polls you'll find they are nearly almost always equal. different strokes for different folks. And as always, realising that "set and setting" are the most vital components in how you trip should make you wiser to the effects.

LSD just has all these negative (usually government and media induced) associations that people place which gets onto the minds of certain people. Hence affacting their trip.

When Swim did LSD for teh first time (and SWIM would never since do any drug without properly researching it despite the great experience swim luckily had) all swim was told was that "you'll see whatever you want to see". which actually is not that true especially teh first time. But it gave swim positive associations.

Hope that helps.

[Desertfox]

my experiences tell of a diffrerent tune. swim has done lsd many times and mushrooms about 6 or so times and has only ever had or been in the situation of a bad trip on mushrooms and actually had a siezure/passed out while on mushrooms even without any other drugs ingested, which is contrary to what many people believe which is mushrooms are somehow safer than lsd, but swim's experience is lsd gives you much more control over a trip while mushrooms feels somewhat like soemthing else is consuming you.

and never at any point during an lsd trip have i not enjoyed myself or regretted taking it but this has happened several times on mushrooms.

[Coconut]

My friend's boss has told him that he has done mushrooms several times and did not enjoy them at all. Apparently they "fuck you up". Now, I know it's ridiculous to say that because it all depends on your own mind and personality, but yeah...

[Nagognog2]

If time had the marbles of the Universe rolled slightly differently and Psilocybin had been the drug of the CIA that suddenly spilled into the streets of America. That Owsley made tons of Psilocybin - not LSD. That Tim Leary was gung-ho for Psilocybin (yes, I know he was at first) - we would not be having this conversation. The thread title would be:

Re: why do people say Psilocybin is so bad?

[Henfer]

Yeah, that natural vs. synthetic thing, SWIM does really not know where this mindset comes from. As for that, SWIM has friends who tried Datura and Brugmansia; those ARE completely natural. However, they did not look that good to SWIM.

Morphin is natural. Codein is natural. The source of LSD, that ergot fungus thing, had very similar effects to LSD, however, it was also potentially deadly, but it was natural.

people tend to think natural stuff won't kill you or do you harm. In that point, there's NO difference between synthetic or natural, only that there are more different synthetic drugs that are potent, but this is directly caused by what synthetic drugs are - developed for usage as drugs.

SWIM can tell you as a difference for him, that he prefers LSD over shrooms, easily. It does not taste like crap, does not upset his stomach, and even as people say the two are similar, it's really not. Yeah of course they are similar in some ways, but for SWIM it feels really differently. LSD feels way more euphoric for SWIM, has longer duration and actually a better comedown.

[tip]

SWIM knows a majority of ice and coke users. Those that are dealers and heavy abusers always tell swim that LSD is really bad and it will fuck you up!! Also it “is not the thing to use now days, you really should stay away from it”.
Just the commercial underworlds marketing tactics and propaganda, pushing stimulants like coke and meth because they are heavily addictive thus profitable.
Also it keeps the ego of man in tact thus we conform easier to commercial spending. Bullshit is everywhere if not the church and government it’s the underworld mainstream.

“Think for yourself and question authority”

[Twiglet]

Originally Posted by Henfer

Yeah, that natural vs. synthetic thing,

Just to clarify ,L.S.D Is semi-synthetic, it's L.S.A that a chemist has played with

[Euphoric]

Maybe SWIM is completely off, but she thought that LSD effects the brain very uniquely. Like it will have effects of many parts of the brain, not just serotonin receptor sites (SWIM's psychopharmacology isn't too great, mushrooms probably do more than this too. Maybe an expert can layout in detail the fine differences of how they act on the brain) SWIM thought this was the cause of synesthesia which LSD is known to sometimes produce. SWIM unfortunately has little experience with LSD and has never experienced synesthesia. SWIM has had a few mushroom trips and also has never had this, and doesn't think he's heard of synesthesia occuring under the influence of mushrooms, but maybe SWIM hasn't read enough reports. Maybe all tryptamines can. Hopefully an expert can clarify this mess SWIM has added to this thread.

And SWIM agrees that ass-loads of propaganda and the synthetic factor are largely responsible for LSD fears. SWIM's heard so many people afraid of drugs that are "chemicals". SWIM laughs to himself and thinks about all the shit that's in the food they eat. He will usually make an effort to point that out. And the fact that everything is chemicals... It's a shame really. If only people did more research and looked at both sides.

[Henfer]

fear of LSD is 100% a propaganda thing. Actually, fro, SWIH's experience, there hasn't been any bad trip of which SWIH personally knows as long as
- the using person is in a good mood. Don't expect to be down as hell and then eat a blotter and be the wisest person in the world.
- the person is either experienced, has a sitter, has that deep knowledge only you can have that that is THE thing you need or as a last line of defense, some heavy amounts of benzos. SWIH does know of one case where someone on LSD got scared the shit out of him because he's seen some black tentacle like pattern coming out of the ground and he thought (and felt) his heartbeat gong up to 200+ were in reality it was 140, they drove him into hospital and he got feared even more of all the test and finally some doc gave him 2 mg ativan I.V. or something and some other stuff. a good experienced tripper talking him down would be 10000x better but a lot of doctors dont know how to handle a LSD tripper. SWIH does know ONE doctor who did a lot of LSD, shrooms and even scopolamine and he does exactly know how to help you in that case.
- even doctors today still know shit about LSD effects and that their asking and their threatening appereance will worse everything.

set & setting is most important in LSD, moreso than in ANY OTHER DRUG in the whole world, and it's not like meth where you snort up a line and you're high. this is a drug you need to be prepared for, need to do research for and personally, SWIH thinks it's a good thing that it's not easy to come by as people need to gather information about it.

also, SWIH used to know three LSD dealers, and they would NOT give it out. allof those three became good friends of SWIH and as SWIH dropped the word psychedelic and self-experience, they asked him questions on this and that before offering him some.

it's the best drug SWIH ever did in his life, it changed his outlook on life and if iwouldn't be restricted harshly, SWIH would walk in to his chief's room straight and tell him were his sudden change on outlook in life came from, and why he suddenly loves his work because he learnt to accept, that there are certain stuff in life that has to be done.

you know that stuff where you pay some $$ for some poor kids in africa so they get education and stuff? after SWIH has seen news etc about those people and how they life while on LSD, he cried for 5 hours straight, listening to "wish you were here" ffrom pink floyd, and instantly signed up for 60$/month to support such a poor little being because he felt that deep connection that we all have with each other and that this is one of the small things he can do to make the world a better place.

maybe that's cause they don't want you to use LSD or give it to politicians, because then they would realize that love, peace and humanity can't be paid by dollars or by looking at the tv and thinking oh what a pity for those people, luckily it's not me in that situation.

that's the problem with LSD; it opens your eyes for the fucked up world we live in. that why the army stopped experimenting with it, because soldiers on LSD didnt become killing machines, but because they sang songs together and loved and hugged and be honest with each other.

and you know what? that lead SWIh to abuse opiates and benzos, because he can't bear those fucked up world anymore and could cry all day about the so called "judgement" we have.

SWIH's sorry for the rant he went on but that's what he feels inside and if that's the famous "lost of reality" due to drug and LSD usage, then so it be, as SWIH can't stand such a world.

[sajonny]

SWIMs been studying LSD for a good while now, and if you are safe and responsible with it, it will treat you good. Why do people say its so bad??? PROPAGANDA!

[Ontherooftops]

SWIM is sort of neutral about LSD, but he'd like to say, due to its nature it frequently causes the user to take it more frequently than with mushrooms, and the frequent use of psychedelics often leads to HPPD and other head issues. Swim has a few friends who suffer from rather severe HPPD from too many days and nights with lucy.

[Euphoric]

What about it's nature would cause one to use it more often? SWIM found it to be very taxing and requiring over 24 hours to recover from. SWIM thinks it will be used rarely, and the time must be available for such a lengthy endeavour. People who use it regularly must have a lot of time and money (not necessarily for the substance but to afford to not be working) on their hands, or else they are effected for a shorter duration than SWIM perhaps.