switching from adderall to dexamphetamine

[pyschidelicmann]

swim has had his experiences with adderall and he enjoys it. swims friend just got a new prescription for generic pils for dexedrin. swim was thinking about trying it. are the effects any different than normal adderall? or are the dosages any different?

[SpaceCadetGlow]

The effects will be very similar to Adderall's, and if they're different at all, the difference will be a positive one. Dexedrine contains one drug: Dextroamphetamine sulfate. Dextroamphetamine is the d-isomer of amphetamine; as with methamphetamine, amphetamine's d-isomer is considered the most euphoric as opposed to the l-isomer, levo-amphetamine. Adderall contains dextroamphetamine sulfate, along with three other amphetamine salts. The combination is known as "mixed amphetamine salts" and goes as follows:

One-quarter racemic (d,l-)amphetamine aspartate monohydrate One-quarter dextroamphetamine saccharate One-quarter dextroamphetamine sulfate One-quarter racemic (d,l-)amphetamine sulfate
So basically, with Dexedrine you're getting the most euphoric form of amphetamine, without all the other forms contained in adderall. For this reason, dosing is a little different. Instant-release versions of Dexedrine are available in strengths of 5 mg and 10 mg. Sustained-release Dexedrine SR is available in strengths of 5 mg, 10 mg and 15 mg.

[pyschidelicmann]

thanks. and swim's friend has 2 pil containers one with 60 10mg of tablets. and one with 60 10mg of capsules. im guessing the capsules are the sr? does the sr work the same way as the xr in adderall? and if swim has experience to adderall and takes about 20mg whenever he takes it (about once every 2 weeks) should swim just take 20mg of dexedrine for a first time?

[SpaceCadetGlow]

I think it's safe to say the capsules are SR. Are they filled with beads like Adderall XR is?

Dexedrine SR will work in the same way as Adderall XR in regards to the timed-release.

As for the dose, Adderall is roughly half as potent as Dexedrine. Therefore, if 20 mg Adderall XR gets SWIY where he wants to be, he would be advised to start by swallowing 10 mg of the SR. If after an hour or so the desired effect hasn't been achieved, SWIY should probably take a half of one of the instant-release tablets, and move up from there in 5 mg intervals.

[izzy31]

Isn't methamphetamine the most powerful amphetamine?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Irrelevant to topic

[cyndi]

The discussion is Adderall vs. Dexidrine if swim is reading this correctly. A very good explaination in differences was given, the best swim has seen actually. Don't believe it was a question of powerful as what effects are different. These are prescription meds, meth is a different topic totally imo.

[Laudaphun]

Good thread to bring back to life... It seems that the differences between the levo and dextro isomers seems to be rather hard to find any real specific info on. SWIM has been through a lot of books and found little. She's heard that the dextro isomer is far more active, making for a more effective pill. Also taht the dextro seems smoother, with less sides than the levo. But if levo is simply less active than why does it's precense produce side effects. One book said that levo isomer has a slightly different affect on the brain but didn't describe what. SWIM experiences a few physical side-effects with the racemic mixture of amphetamines (adderall) that do not occur with methylphenidate, but it works much much better and more consistently than methylphenidate... SWIM has never really used stimulants much and not nearly as knowledgable as with some other substances. Basically learning through trial and error. But has asked to switch to adderall, then back to methylphenidate, then during a brief break when not taking ADD meds, decided to try the adderall (racemic amphetmaine) again and found it to be quite effective when sed properly. Told dr. and switched back to adderall... began feeling depressed upon waking after a few weeks, which the adderall cured. In hindsight SWIM was too quick to blame the

This bothered SWIM, as she had no compulsion, nor desire to take the adderall but knew that she would definitely feel 100% better after taking a pill. This bothered SWIM so just quit taking the adderall thinking she was experiencing psychological dependance (the kind that is like when you wake up and feel like crap... and knwo you need to take your methadone or buprenorphine, but really don't want to take it, but have to or you will lay in bed all day).

Dr. switched SWIM back to methylphenidate at the max recommended dose (double what she'd been previously taking) and it was all downhill from there... When asked what she thought worked better she said that she thought they each had plus/minuses... pressed to make a decision she opted to go back to the methylphenidate. After the 2nd month, it was almost immediately obvious that this was the wrong decision.

SWIM's only complaint about the adderall is that it felt a little "harsh" on the body after using it for a few weeks. Other than that it kept SWIM more organized because she only needed to take it twice a day... food didn't matter. She would wake up and take her first dose upon waking (4,5 or 6am... sometimes later). Always taking second dose around noon... 1pm if she slept in late and it wore off at about the same time each evening.

Methylphenidate did seem slightly stronger (in effect) but with such short duration that re-dosing was a real pain. SWIM has not been able to keep any kind of regular schedule since going back to methyphenidate, and now can't get it to work right.

SWIM did have some rather unpleasant side-effects from the adderall (not acute) but overtime they would build up.... appetite suppression, gradual dehydrating effect that wasn't bothersome right away, and not really sure what else... SWIM doesn't want to ask to switch back to adderall unless it is for good, so is wondering if asking about trying the pure dextro isomer, if it would possibily eliminate all the little, minor irritating side-effects that the d,l combo noted.

SWIM is going to resort to academic journals... as even books written entirely about amphetamine have yielded little useful information about the specific differences between dextro/levo... SWIM is going to have to have a good reason for wanting to dexedrine since her dr. is old school and is so used to seeing pharma companies create a new formulation when patent expires he sticks to tried and true meds that have been around for awhile. SWIM once asked about focalin (d-methylphenidate) and he dismissed it as being no better than d,l version.

SWIM would love to find some good info on the differences between levo/dextro AMP. SWIM thinks it's not so much about what dextro does, since it seems to be the lack of levo that causes the diff that people note.

[dark12]

The main difference I have read about is that the levo isomer is more active on the peripheral nervous system causing more body stimulation. This can indirectly cause some of the more negative side effects like twitching and anxiety.

I have also read that the levo isomer is accepted better among younger people's bodies.


EDIT:
From Wikipedia: "Adderall’s inclusion of levoamphetamine provides the pharmaceutical with a quicker onset and longer clinical effect compared to pharmaceuticals exclusively formulated of dextroamphetamine.[18] Although it seems that where the human brain has a preference for dextroamphetamine over levoamphetamine, it has been reported that certain children have a better clinical response to levoamphetamine.[19]"

Reputation Comments on this post:

a beginning... it seems this thread was left horribly unfinished quite some time ago

[Laudaphun]

Yah, SWIM has read that somewhere in a book, but that was basically all it said and that really is about all of the info it gave... Maybe a graph, gonna have to go look. But whereever SWIM read that before it still did not really give any more info than SWIY posted. A few things, like duration of action of racemic mixuture of salts compared to pure dextro isomer... 1 hour diff (SWIM thinks?) Therapuetical suggested dosage range was 10-40 for racemic salts and 5-40 for dextroamp which was slightly confusing for ADHD. But min/max suggested dosages 4x greater in racemic salts and max is 8x greater than min for dextro.

SWIM believes there to be no formulations containing only levo-AMP currently available in the US (again, not 100% sure on that), but if so sort of makes SWIM wonder about the studies indicating greater behavioral improvement in with levo-isomer... That would be a good study to read if someone could located it. It should be referenced somewhere, and that sounds like a good place to start.

EDIT: the link in the above post points to a study that is a good read 9pg .pdf, but does indicate that research has been rather limited on these differences in isomers despite how long these drugs have been around and in use.

[dark12]

In laboratory experiments with hyperkinetic, untrainable dogs and in a comparison of levoamphetamine, dextroamphetamine, and placebo in children, levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine were found to be approximately equal in calming an aggressive, hostile dog and in benefiting "unsocialized-aggressive" children: dextroamphetamine was more effective than levoamphetamine in calming "nervousness" and hyperactivity in dogs and in overanxious-hyperkinetic children. These data suggest that in the hyperkinetic syndrome, aggression and hostility may be benefited equally by levoamphetamine or dextroamphetamine via a dopaminergic mechanism, while anxiety and overactivity may be benefited significantly only by the dextro isomer via a norepinephrinergic mechanism.

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/...ract/130/2/165

[Zilker_Park]

Originally Posted by SpaceCadetGlow

I think it's safe to say the capsules are SR. Are they filled with beads like Adderall XR is?

Dexedrine SR will work in the same way as Adderall XR in regards to the timed-release.

As for the dose, Adderall is roughly half as potent as Dexedrine. Therefore, if 20 mg Adderall XR gets SWIY where he wants to be, he would be advised to start by swallowing 10 mg of the SR. If after an hour or so the desired effect hasn't been achieved, SWIY should probably take a half of one of the instant-release tablets, and move up from there in 5 mg intervals.

Swim has taken both 10mg time release Adderall (~1 year everyday) then switched to 5mg Dexedrine tabs (generic) for a little less than a year. The Dexedrine is easier on Swim's body (less headaches, less depression). The correct comparison would be 65-75% Dexedrine = 100% Adderall. Swim does not recommend time release (always in spansuled caps). Also is the Dex generic is so much cheaper at the pharmacy.