Example of AA brainwashing.

[fnord]

not knocking on anyone that wants to quit but AA is just fucked up...

real life email from a AA member to a friend,this person barely had a drinking problem,he never even drank breakfast beer,one of my favorite meals.

i'm really sorry if i came off as a jerk when you were in XXXXX, you could have defiantly got coffe with us. but will try to make this clear as i can.

my drinking days are over. my drinking and drugging was never about having "fun" or being " care free and reckless" it was about killing pain and escaping reality cause i was to scared to face it on my own. the day i got sober was the day i was finally honest with myself. i am sick and tired of being sick and tired. and i am sick of being miserable. but misery is optinal. and will i was living the life of an active alcoholic, life was passing me by. but am sober today. i am dealing with my problems, fear and pain. i have a higher power of my own understanding which i have turned my life and will over to. and sobriety is the best thing that ever happend to me. im new in it and i am basically going through and emotinal roller coaster, and sometimes it really sucks and i come off wrong, espically to people who dont understand or know my deal or what its like to be a recovering drunk. like you. im sorry id this upsets you but im being honest and truthfull. i love you very much and consider you my good friend. take care

XXXXXXXXXX

as far as alcohol goes. you dont understand, and you cant understand, cause you arent not a recovring alcoholic like iam. you might not even be an alcoholic, that is not for me to judge. i am not god. but



nuff said...

[beentheredonethatagain]

I dont see your example of brain washing, your friend was in a spot that he wasnt comfortable in, so he found another path, sounds like its working too

[Heretic.Ape.]

I think he's referring to the fact that every sentence the fellow uses is taken directly from the AA rhetoric handbook. I'd feel the same if a friend started talking to me in nothing but cliches he'd heard at some cult meeting. Not to say AA is all bad, I'm sure it does a lot of people a lot of good, but you gotta admit it's rather cultish.

[beentheredonethatagain]

Okay if you call staying off drugs by reading and quoting the third step prayer
" God take my will and life, guide me in my recovery and show me how to live CLEAN" . Then I would ask to compaire it to this " dude got any thing yet, I get paid in three days and what about holding my watch" , I would say that is mild comparison to the way things are in the life of someone in active addiction.


they both are cults to some degree , which one is better

[JDreaming]

I'd say being an out of control drug addict could be as cult-like as being addicted to Alcoholics Anonymous... but has a drug addict ever E-Mailed you ranting, concerned messages full of cut-and-pasted Timothy Leary quotes, using cultural cliches to try and guilt you into adopting their lifestyle?

[beentheredonethatagain]

Originally Posted by JDreaming

I'd say being an out of control drug addict could be as cult-like as being addicted to Alcoholics Anonymous... but has a drug addict ever E-Mailed you ranting, concerned messages full of cut-and-pasted Timothy Leary quotes, using cultural cliches to try and guilt you into adopting their lifestyle?

No one has emailed from AA NA nor has any addict sent me any email either

[bcubed]

Well, first off, coercing of any kind is supposed to be contrary to AA/NA philosophy. When Alcoholics Anonymous was written, the org was primarily intended for the last-gasp alcoholic. This has gone by the wayside to a substantial degree.

My issues with the org are two: first, AAers tend to veiw their prog as "divinely inspired." And since God's perfect, the progam is perfect, too, thus ANYONE who drinks again MUST have done something wrong (usually described as "unable to get the spiritual stuff.") Taking someone already down about a relapse and telling her how she f**ked up is highly offensive, IMO.

Second, the "all drugs are bad" philosophy (which, incidentally, is contrary to the philosophy of at least one co-founder, who tried LSD repeatedly, reccomended it for alcoholism, and only quit reluctantly when pressured to do so) is counter-productive. Suppose an AAer just CAN'T tolerate sobriety for one more second. Rather than, say, smoke pot (snidely called the "marijuana maintenance program"), they recall that "a drug is a drug" and figure, as long as they're gonna lose their sober time, hell, why not just go and get drunk? There have also been many cases of some (completely unqualified) AAer telling a newbie, "If you got God, you don't need those anti-psychotics [or whatever], and you'll never REALLY be sober 'till you're off of them!"

It's somewhat ironic that the more dogmatic members who tend to "hard sell" God have created an organization that would almost certainly have excluded at least one founder.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Excellent critique of AA. The "got God, don't need antipsychotics" is all too prevalent in 12-step groups, cer...

[methMADMAN]

As a very happily and greatfully recovering addict (through AA and NA) I simply feel sorry for you guys. It's not about brainwashing it's about a method that actually works to change ones life. You will NEVER understand it till you try it, and with the closed mind you will probably never try it, and die a slow painful death of drug addiction and or alcoholism.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance--That principle is contempt prior to investigation"

-Herbert Spencer

[fnord]

Originally Posted by methMADMAN

, and with the closed mind you will probably never try it, and die a slow painful death of drug addiction and or alcoholism.

my eyes are wide open tylar...

we all make our own choices in life some people choose to be sober for there own reasons.and others can still go thru life using drugs/alkamahol,if this program worked for you then great and all the best luck! i mean no offense when i ask this but why are you on this site all of your posts are anti drug?

[methMADMAN]

Because SWIM has been to the depths of hell with methamphetamine with a serious IV habit, and come out the other side.

[beentheredonethatagain]

welcome methmadman , I believe this site is for all , the only requirement is , well I don't think there is one.

[dogzz]

AA, and NA, it's all about the people at the meeting. Just as in any group in society, there are good people, and assholes that fuck it up for everyone. If swiy is at a meeting where the people just dont rub swiy the right way....definitely try a different meeting. Swim's been to some meetings where it feels very uncomfortable...very self-righteous, pompous asses. screw that. Other meetings where swim was very comfortable....very open and friendly, really cool people that made everyone feel that way. Yes....some AA and NA people are in that "brainwashing" frame of mind....they are so into the steps they think that is ALL that matters....The world does not work in "black and white" it is not as simple as 12 steps cures everyone. They also say at AA and NA "take what you need, and leave the rest" now that attitude works.

[beentheredonethatagain]

I have been to countless meetings and have seen it all, some hardcore AA require a complete change in the way you dress, facial hair off, and other very strict rules. I did see why some would need that, if the hardcore drinker doesn't change everything it won't be too long before a relapse. I personally didn't need that b/c I was never lost that far. I was cool with the regular laid back laughing and some joking around meetings that suggested working the steps with a sponser

[dogzz]

Facial hair???????? Oh swim would have to kick that meeting to the curb!!! If santa needed AA to stop drinking cocoa would they require he shaved??? fuck that

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice to remember st. nick

[dogzz]

Swim's ex-in-laws were extreme alcoholics who became devout AA "fanatics" for lack of easier way to put it. Went to meetings 7 days a week. ate, breathed, lived AA 24/7. Sheeesh, swim hates saying this, but swim prefered the drunk in-laws. Swim knew every little detail of far too many of the other members of their groups. It was sad really, how they would talk about this person, that person.....They looked down their high and mighty noses talking trash about all these people.......Swim had been to a few meetings and knows the rules.....what goes on there ...stays there......YA ....right!!!

Although it did work out well whenever someone needed a favor....there was always a AA buddy that could do, or get for you, or get done for you anything and everything........from paving to roofing to houshold repairs, to buying this or that....there was always that buddy.....and swim always heard each and every one of these peoples life story.......swim may have been an addict for many years....but swims brain isnt so fried as to understand privacy means privacy........keeping whats said at meetings there is supposed to mean just that........Thanks to swims ex in-laws.....swim does not like AA or NA.....Was shown the hypocrisy of many of the people that go. The exact same reason swim does not go to church..... Swim's higher power is not a hypocrite. nor is swim. It's our deal and we dont need any group to acknowledge or make it right. << gets off soap box and shuts up