Culture - LSD:So... anyone know any SWIY who HAS actually done a thumbprint?

[redpoppy]

fascinating stuff. Please elucidate if there is any knowledge on the subject.

[tayo]

if there is any knowledge on this "thumbprint" don't be afraid to be descriptive. What is that? Enough to cover a thumb?

[Raz]

A thumbprint is when someone covers the bottom of their thumb with LSD and then takes it.

[Dalfir]

Not just LSD, but crystal LSD straight from the chemist, by the time they're ready to do a thumbprint they should have lots of connections in the local LSD family to get to such a state.

[redpoppy]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

Not just LSD, but crystal LSD straight from the chemist, by the time they're ready to do a thumbprint they should have lots of connections in the local LSD family to get to such a state.

Well yeah, thats the socio-historic perpsective.

but I'd say it was anyone in or outside of those inner circles/families who has actually covered their thumb in the stuff and taken it. I'm assuming it would have to be crystal form.

MOst peopel seem to describe it as dying. BUt never it seems in a bad "cancer eating me away or i'm in pain" way but in an unexplainable loss of ego and self and understandoing teh nature of teh universe kind of way.

although I would never encourage it as I'm sure its enough to send certain people doolally.

Although the experience I read on the link we can't post of the guy who freaked out and had a bad one but at the end said it was the most amazing experience of his life and despite never touyching the stuff again now lives happily on an organic farm is interesting. I wonder if it really is an exorcism of the soul or just that we think it is.

Also the fact that you can cure alcoholism with super huge doses of LSD is interesting. I wonder what a massive does of LSD would do to teh criminally minded. heh heh. although I suppose all the fmailies are considered criminally minded anyway. But I mean people prone to acts of violence towards otehr human beings. soudns very "clockwork orange" but I think we should do tests. mwahahahaha!

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by redpoppy

Well yeah, thats the socio-historic perpsective.

but I'd say it was anyone in or outside of those inner circles/families who has actually covered their thumb in the stuff and taken it. I'm assuming it would have to be crystal form.

MOst peopel seem to describe it as dying. BUt never it seems in a bad "cancer eating me away or i'm in pain" way but in an unexplainable loss of ego and self and understandoing teh nature of teh universe kind of way.

although I would never encourage it as I'm sure its enough to send certain people doolally.

Although the experience I read on the link we can't post of the guy who freaked out and had a bad one but at the end said it was the most amazing experience of his life and despite never touyching the stuff again now lives happily on an organic farm is interesting. I wonder if it really is an exorcism of the soul or just that we think it is.

Also the fact that you can cure alcoholism with super huge doses of LSD is interesting. I wonder what a massive does of LSD would do to teh criminally minded. heh heh. although I suppose all the fmailies are considered criminally minded anyway. But I mean people prone to acts of violence towards otehr human beings. soudns very "clockwork orange" but I think we should do tests. mwahahahaha!

Covering the thumb with LSD wouldn't be a very clever thing to do. How would you know anyone much LSD there was? SWIY might end up on a funny farm rather than an organic farm.

Massive doses of any drug are usually unpleasant if not fatal. When alcoholics have been treated, carefully measured doses have been given.

LSD doesn't necessarily 'cure' people of violence. Look at Charlie Manson.

[redpoppy]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Covering the thumb with LSD wouldn't be a very clever thing to do. How would you know anyone much LSD there was? SWIY might end up on a funny farm rather than an organic farm.

Massive doses of any drug are usually unpleasant if not fatal. When alcoholics have been treated, carefully measured doses have been given.

LSD doesn't necessarily 'cure' people of violence. Look at Charlie Manson.

Good point re. the manson thing. But taking small doses and thumbprint can maybe not even be considered the same experience.

but thumbprint doses have been taken by people who have indulged in LSD regularly and the ones that seem to live to tell the tale tend to not express "madness" but something else. generally "dying" is a theme that tends to reoccur.

even low doses of LSD can lead some people to go mentally unstable. SO yeah a high dose can probably do the same.

As for "carefully measured doses" I dont think I can provide teh link but here's an extract fomr an article in teh Metro:

"The LSD group received a massive 'hit' – up to 100 times more powerful than people using it for recreational purposes.
The drug put patients into a state known as the DTs – Delerium Tremens. If alcoholics reach this state they start to shake and become very ill, prompting many to turn the corner and give up.
Those in the trial reported suffering a milder version of the DTs which was followed by a desire to quit drinking."

100 times!!!!! it may be carefully measured but can you imagine even getting 100 drops/blotters down someone and saying "hey it was given in a controlled environment"?

And as for a thumbprint being not "carefully measured" maybe once you reach a certian number of drops teh effects may be teh same? SAy, if you took 60 drops or 160 ... perhaps teh body would just treat it as "sh*tloads of acid"?

I'm not saying its a good thing, but I think potentially it could be good and potentially it coulsd also be very very bad. Thats why I was hoping to hear some SWIY's share their experiences.

[enquirewithin]

Apparently if someone takes more than about 800 mics, the experience gets longer than more intense, but SWIM wouldn't know.

I suppose someone may have done that to some alcoholics. That would be extreme psychedelic therapy. After all, the CIA dosed people who were visiting prostitutes.

I still don't think that dipping your finger in a drug with LSD seems a very bright idea. LSD is not very toxic, but its very potent, but people have got very sick dipping fingers in RCs.

[Dalfir]

The estimated dosage of a thumbprint from reported experiences is around 5mg.

[fnord]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

The estimated dosage of a thumbprint from reported experiences is around 5mg.

i never did a thumb print seeing as i dont use drugs,but my friend ate the smallest piece of powder L once and had one hell of a time...surprisingly he said it was too much for him while loving it all the same,thoughts of wondering if it was indeed too much like everyone said,or if he would ever come down/be the same again,this dosent happen even with excessive amounts of rc's or mushrooms/anything.he was scared shittless but comfortable the whole time.no estimation on the dose sorry guys but way way under a thumb print it was sold without scales cut in half 1 half dissolved in ethanol the other eaten.

[tayo]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

The estimated dosage of a thumbprint from reported experiences is around 5mg.

So thumbrint is an exageration, certainly it's possible to fit more than 5mg on there.

[grandbaby]

Originally Posted by Dalfir

The estimated dosage of a thumbprint from reported experiences is around 5mg.

The impression I get from reading about thumbprint experiences is that the print is generally 10mg+, with some prints up to 50mg. Robert Hunter is rumored to have taken 1/4 gram (!!!).

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Apparently if someone takes more than about 800 mics, the experience gets longer than more intense, but SWIM wouldn't know.

On the "thumbprint" thread on the Shermery, the two members who claim to have printed state that though they probably couldn't tell the difference between a 1000 mic trip and a 2000 mic one -- i.e. that some kind of saturation does come into play at "lower" levels -- with much larger doses the experience is changed completely.

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

I still don't think that dipping your finger in a drug with LSD seems a very bright idea. LSD is not very toxic, but its very potent, but people have got very sick dipping fingers in RCs.

Comparing LSD to RCs is apples and lemons; there is one known human death directly from the toxic effects of LSD: someone shot 320mg (!) of crystal LSD thinking it was speed. Whereas the toxic effects of most RCs are not well documented, and deaths have occurred from ingestion of some RCs. So no, dipping your finger in the baggie isn't bright, you're right.

On the other side of things, very few people will ever get the opportunity to print. The experience is long and overwhelming, and the "printee" needs to be babysat for quite a while by sympathetic souls. Generally, it's those higher up in the LSD distribution chain who have access to sufficient quantities and who have the support system that will allow them to come out the other side of an experience like that and be able to integrate it.

I'm of at least two minds about it. One part of me, obviously, is fascinated by the idea and wants to find out as much about it as possible. The other, sensible side thinks that glorifying the experience is a recipe for disaster -- that some self-styled psychedelic hero is going to come to grief because after reading about it he thinks he can handle a massive dose and does it without the proper preparation. These are the people you hear about that are picked up naked on the freeway, smeared in their own faeces (or is that "fesis"? ) with no clue who or where they are. Well, that's Darwinism in action, innit?

[fnord]

from what iver heard of thumbprints,you lick your thumb then apply it to a crystal,then lick again.ive never heard of applying crystals to ones thumb.

[Nagognog2]

Bongo inadvertantly did what was likely within that range. 3,000 mcg. He rather doubts there would have been any dicernable difference had it been more. This was Sandoz LSD-25 from the 1960's kept frozen in dark rum.

The tale can be found in these forums without busting your spleen.

[tayo]

Yeah, I think there is a point where the receptors become completely saturated, and the only thing could change after that is the time to elimination.

[grandbaby]

edit: I got a question in PM about what this blank post was about.

I had tried to cut and paste the most relevant posts from the Shermery thread, but all that came up was a blank box when I was done. I assume that's because it was just too big (although how could it be bigger than some of Richard Smoker's posts?!). I'll try to split it up and re-post; maybe tomorrow.

OR you could interpret the blank box as the silent "OM" of the universe (AKA cosmic background radiation) that manifests itself on thumbprint doses..

[grandbaby]

This is going to be long. Multipart post.

I copied & pasted the most relevant posts from the Shermery thread about the thumbprint. I present it to you, blissfully free of context and/or annoying "holy shit dude, that's awesome, hook me up with one" posts.

OK, ready? Here goes:

CC: I got up this morning and as always took a quick look at the boards before heading to campus. Your thread got thinking about the old days as I was driving to campus. So I have decided to skip my first class and try to provide some more info.
BTW if I flunk my pathology exam next week It's your fault Learyfan :wink: :grin:

Some of this info I covered in my ODD thread LSD-Crystal to blotter.
My information is on how the Dead/rainbow/origanal family handle LSD
When LSD crystal is bought it comes in little glass viles. It's a dense crystal and a gram of it looks alot smaller than a gram of coke or flour(or other powder). Ten grams can fit in a vile small enough to hold in your hand and clentch your fist and conceal.

Anyway as I said in my other thread when you first buy crystal from the family their's 2 requirement's. 1. You have to be taught how to lay it properly and be trusted to do so on your own. 2. You have to do a thumbprint. The family believes LSD crystal should only be handled by those with the proper energy or karma to do so. There's no better way to test somebodys faith of LSD than give them a thumbprint.

Originaly thumprints were given by taking the glass vile and puting your thumb over
the top of the vile and turning it and fliping it upside down real quick. This put a coating of crystal on your thumb which was pessed into the palm of the person ,leaving your crystal imbedded thumbrint in there palm(hence the term thumprint) where it would absorb(or they might lick it off.). This was your certification :wink:

Nowadays thumbprints are eaten. Any time someone eats crystal it's refered to as a print. This way was adopted because it's more efficiant.

As for the experiance itself. All reviever's are experianced with LSD(at least they think so until there printed :wink You feel it almost instantly. LSD crystal has an energy to it. Having a jar of it my pocket is enough to alter my conciousness. As soon as it touches your skin or goes in your mouth you can feel it. Alot of folks will throw up within minutes. This is an exorcism of sorts. Like all the negative energy being cast out of your body. Then you lay down and learn. As for the experiance I just couldn't do it justice to describe it. Your never the same again.
A thumprint doesn't open the door of perception it blows it off the hinges.
You melt into eternety. You let go and die into the moment which is all. There is no you anymore only all. The intensity of this can't be described, but you realize as your sliping away that it's familar.This is because it become quite clear this is exactlly what happens when you die. After an eternity you slowly start to come back in pieces. You feel reborn and a completely different person. You don't ever come completely down or back. This isn't a bad thing ,but it's very scary at first.
I won't try to describe it any more because I can't. Also after your experianced with eating crystal its a little less tramatic. Your first one is spent on the ground. After awhile I could eat crystal at shows and whatnot.

I have only seen one print go bad and I described this in my other thread. The guy says it's the most important event of his life and now lives happily so I guess it wasn't bad. His reaction at the time was.

I think psychedelics are safer in large doses(i'm not talking about thumbprint sizes though) as far as bad trips go. They override your ego's defenses in large enough doses. you can't think your having a bad trip because you can't think at all beacause there is no you. :grin: Terrance McKenna and Andrew Weil MD have said this also.

CC: It is hard to describe a thumbprint. Human language cannot describe an experiance that is encompasses all of life. Every cell of every creature or living thing that ever lived or will live is connected by the energy or light. When we die are body and our ego is gone. We become one with eternity or the light or God or whatever name you wish to call it. A thumbprint allows this to happen and rerturn to our physical body. My first print I layed down and quickly realized that this was my actual death. You watch the whole process unfold with complete awareness.
I didn't cling to my body I just realized my life had passed. As I was spiraling up or out I saw my life evolve through the years I lived. The happiness, the sadness,the people I loved and the people I didn't. The joy that I gave and the pain that I caused. I saw the true nature of reality and why things were the way they were. As I got higher I saw the nature of reality on the cosmic scale and saw that the reason for our evolution was to experiance love. To love is to have experianced the finest of life. Then came the moment were it was time to let go. As I did it came for me and I sobbed uncontrolabley for I realized that the light or energy we call god or creation was perfect. It was pure unconditional love.
What else could god have been I realized. That glint of innocent perfection in a baby's eye. The light was pure as the heart of Jesus Christ. I dissolved into it and died. Since there was no me only the all ,I cannot remember the rest because there was no me to remember. After forever I slowly decended into my body.
I spent days awake afterwards talking to myself. I vowed to god to spread LSD so others could see the light. I vowed to look at every person as the lord and treat them as such.
I was reborn and continue to live by the values I learned. I became as active as I could spreading LSD. Year after year in hotel rooms with a pyrex pan and watercolor paper. Hoping excitedly that some of these hit's will help guide my brothers and sisters back towards the light. LSD is a direct message from God. Period. I don't think we get another chance. We can love each other or we can kill each other ,but it is up to us. As I always say in my threads as a reminder, my work with LSD ended years ago.

As for your question about eating and going to the bathroom. I don't think I ate for a week afterwards. As for going to the bathroom I hadn't eaten before hand at my guides advise so it wasn't a problem. I remember letting go as it got dark and coming back a lttle before sunrise. I was high for along time afterwards and as I said earlier you never fully return. I feel high all the time still and its been years.
Also I did many, many prints after that. I have eaten a lot of crystal but it was never like that first time.
I must stress that I was in the company of very evolved and older people that made sure my experiances were optimal. These were kind old spirits that had been were I was going many years before and many times. They held me as a baby every inch of the way.

You have heard of near death experiances right. A thumbprint is a beyond death experiance.
I have a rich life now thats full of good fortune. A wonderful wife and 3 children who are completely wonderful. Every day is complete joy. I couldn't ask for more, but I know it will end one day for good. I await this day with no fear ,but the knowlege that that most rewarding and enlightening experiance of life is death.
:grin:

[grandbaby]

Part 2. Deep breath aaaand:

CC: Ok i'll tell you about the one that went bad.

This finds me in Oakland in the early 90's. Between tour's I would sit out in San Francisco and keep things flowing. Friends from the east coast would need shit so I would lay it and mail it or others would come out to get a lower price and I would lay it and send them on there way. Well a real good friend came out to get 4 or 5 grams.With him he had a few people. I told him he could help me lay it and to have his friends hang out in the city till were done. He says this friend of his is ready to come with us. Now I had talked to the guy before and knew he was connected to the rainbow family, but his energy seamed weird. trusting my friends judgement i said alright.

So we decide to drive over to oakland to lay it in a hotel. We get to some sleazy hotel out by the freeway and get ready. Now i'm a little edgy about this newbie watching, but as long as he stays out of the way it's fine. So we get to work and it takes quite awhile to lay 5 grams of acid. Thats 50 tenpack or 50,000 doses. Were done and cleanin up and he say my friend is ready for a print. I'm like are you sure and he says i think so. I look at his friend and he's like just give it to me I can handle it. So I get out my jar of silver crystal and knock some out on the nightstand because my friend wants to take some with him to do in the mountains.

Well this fuckin dude sticks his finger right in my pile of crystal and then licks it. I'm like thats a pretty hefty dose there soldier. He's like ya whatever now what do we do. Then I started to realize it was going to get weird. Within 2 minutes he's saying man my fuckin stomach hurt's that was poison. I'm like go in the bathroom your going to puke. He goes in there and and we hear him cussin and puking. Meanwhile i'm askin my friend what the hell he's got us into. Then the bathroom door opens and he comes out butt naked saying i'm gettin the fuck out of here.

Were like no man just chill your not going to be able to get far. We put him in the back bedroom and turn the lights out and figure thats best for him. I close the door and tell him if he needs me were there. I figure he's got some things to sort out with god. Now this hotel Is right on the freeway. In fact you can jump out the window onto it. Were also on the second floor. Well were sitting there and i'm making some phone calls telling people i'm going to be hung up for awhile and I hear cars on the freeway honking. We go back into the bedroom and he's halfway out the window, getting ready to jump onto the Oakland freeway naked as the day he was born.

We pull him back into the room and he's starting to realize he's dying.He thinks i'm causing him to die and i'm the devil. Now shit gets ugly. He's screaming at us that he's dieing and trying to get out of the hotel. Since I just layed 5 grams i'm high also as is my friend. We call some other friends to come over. Were holding him down on the bed trying to cover his mouth. We have 50,000 doses of freshly layed LSD in the room and I don't need the cops coming. I take the pan and all the supplies I used to lay with and throw them out the window onto the freeway.

My other friends get there and we tell the girls take the acid and get out of hear quick. This guy's screaming at the top of his lungs that he's dying and I know the other hotel guest's can here him. It's got to be any minute that the Oakland police show up. I'm telling him to let go ,don't fight it. He thinks i'm satan so he's not listening to anything I say. Also as we have been wrestling him he has lost control of his bodily fluids. There's puke ,shit and piss all over. I can't imagine what the cops are going to think when they come in and see a couple hippies on some guy covered in puke and shit screaming i'm dying as we tell him it's ok he'll like it.

After awhile he stops moving. He was sucked into eternity. He was gone. As he layed there motionless we cleaned him up. And my friend sang amazing grace over and over to him. After an hour passed I realized the cops hadn't came. I contribute this to 2 things. The protection of God and the fact we were in a nasty part of Oakland and people mind there own buisness.

My girl comes by and brings us clean shirts and pants. Itake a shower and clean up as they watch him and then we take turns. My nerves are frazzled. I'm high and this guys bad trip has really wigged me out. Me and my girl decide to go for a walk since my friends with him and he's not moving. We get out side and realize that going for a walk at 3 am in oakland isn't going to be good. She senses my tension and we go to the side of the hotel in some bushes were she layes me down and sets my mind at ease with that magic only a woman can perform.

As dawn breaks he's coming around. Talking incoherantly ,but I can see a sparkle in his eye. We all part ways and me and my girl head back to SF to get some sleep.
A day or two later my friend calls and says there heading home and to come say goodbye. I get there and this guy comes up to me and gives me a big hug and says he's sorry. I tell him don't worry about it. He then tells me that he met god and was a different person now. This makes me happy.

This man hasn't taken LSD since and lives in Oregon and owns a organic farm.
He's happy with a family and at peace.
He says that night was the most important and best thing that ever happened to him. I see him at the Oregon county fair every year and we always have a big hug.
he's turned into somebody i really admire and love.

After this incedent I became very carefull of who I printed. :wink:

WR: It is something one cannot just " decide to do one day" and EVERYONE I know who has done it has had a pretty high LSD tolerance and experience level.It is more a symbol of trust than key to enlightenment as the experience is completly overwhelming and memory is scrambled between acid dream and "reality" with most of it blank.I had persistant imagery for several months and for the following week felt " rode hard and put away wet".
I since (25+yrs) still am (resistant,accustomed,tolerant,?) with psychadelics but enjoy them greatly in moderation.
Weak I know but how do you describe ultimate Non-Youness persisting uncontrolably and unresitably?
their ya go china the best I can give it right now :wink: :grin: WR

WR: Mine was a clean white crystaline beauty,not family acid, but guru made. I was an O Chem major with a wild side a mile wide and we met and over time he became much like a spiritual father.He would allow me to assist the "cook" and let me do column and lay up.Then one day in 78 he gave me a eighth oz of crystal and told me to "spread the word" and that he would be back after summer and then we'd talk more.So the summer of 78 I dosed 1000mics + daily all summer and played guru.In late august he came back and took a long look at me asked me if "I had made a lot of money over summer?" I replied "Money?" This was what he wanted to hear and it made him smile and say "Good, see ya tomorrow"
the next day we were going to prep the lab after his absence,clean, dust and such.When I showed up at the trailer he had a funny grin on his face and he said 'I hope you don't have plans." we went in his old lady was there,unusual,and she was holding a small watch glass with the crystal spice in it.She said "honey it is time to grow up". They then told me to stick in my thumb and press.By then I was nervously curious and my hands were sweaty so i pulled my thumb free with a generous coating on it.I looked at it and I swear I could feel it starting then I stuck my thumb in my mouth and let go.The first hr or so I think I was in and out of the world then "I" just dissapeared for eternity.IMO part of me still is there.
I am facing death due to a botched angiogram and I know I will meet with the part of me which rides the eternal winds when my time is over.I know that death is a mere transition,I know this because I died that day in late 78 and arose again reborn.My priorities of life were refocused and I have been working to integrate the new paradigm of being which was created by that day every since.I think if a lesson or enlightenment came from this it is that I consciously participate in my life to a much greater degree.This is not the "easy' way to live in a world of injustice and cruelty.I have been forced to accept the balance of positive and negative w/o imposing my own desire. And I still must struggle mightily to integrate and exist in this society.My freinds old lady said it was time to grow up but she did not say I would outgrow myself.I have absolutly NO regrets although the changes in my mind and thought process have made interfacing with traditional thinking a challenge.I think I must give Sclorch fits with the way my mind takes classic philisophical thought and twists it about.I know that "holy men" have no clue regarding my spirituality.
Like China said every day I know I 'thumbprinted" but the funny thing is no matter how you rewire your brain life still bring the same challenges.I still have to stuggle with the challenges but I believe that I may have somewhat more novel solutions to some things than some others,but all in all I am remarkably Ward Cleaver considering.Any more only the wife,kids,and freinds really get the jist of my bent,and that is just fine with me.
One last thing,I have experienced literal death (heart stopped) and the irresistablity of death and strong psychadelic experience are quite similar.In Death one realizes the ineffable nature of the experience and resisting is futile,much like resisting a thumbprint,it is just NOT possible .
So now there are some of us out there who have customized our thinking but like the early hotrodders we somewhat haphazardly customized our brains.Like some of the early hot rods we may have some areas where we really perform well but drivability has been comprimised.But I have come to know and love all the lil idiosycrisies of my ole jalopy.
Peace,WR

[grandbaby]

part 3. and-a-two and-a:

CC: There is a massive difference between 500mcg and a thumbprint.
There not even comparable trips. As for saturation effect this is from medical research in the 50's comparing doses of lsd. There may not be a notacable difference between 1000 and 2000 mcg. There is a huge difference between 1000mcg. and 40 or 50 mg. Of course the reseachers never ventured into this dosage range. As for Jonathon Ott and Ram Dass I would venture to say neither has had a thumbprint. The quote you printed of Ram Dass is dealing with tolerance anyway not saturation levels.Taking 2400mcg of acid a day for weeks would be alot different than taking 40,000mcg one time. I know close to a hundred people that have had thumbprints and each one would laugh there ass of if someone told them there was no difference between 500mcg. and 50,000mcg.
As for futher clarification try eating 500mcg. and a couple weeks later stick your finger in some LSD crystal and lick it. Then you can see just how similar experiances they are. mirk:

CC: One bad experiance thats told above, but in the end he found it to be the most important experiance of his life so it was good afterall. I have heard of other unpleasent ones, but none to serious. As for life changing, everyone of them.
Once that amount of LSD is injested you are never the same,ever!!!
Most prints turn out very well. It's not like there made availble to anybody.
Usually the person is deemed ready by those who can tell.They are taken care of before and after the print by the family, this may take up to a week before your functioning again. Sometimes skeptics are printed, but there reactions are usually very, very shattering. It's hard when your whole belief system explodes and the truth is revealed. You basically have to start from scratch. All those years you thought you knew the truth and God, then in a matter of minutes you find you didn't know shit, then you die. . This is all related to first prints. Repeated prints later are less traumatic and not nearlly as shattering.
Most folks I know that have done prints rarely do LSD anymore. There's really know need to except for nostalgia. I do know one brother( who gave me my first print) who is in his mid sixties and still eats crystal.
I don't know if I ever will again. I have courted the idea , and mabye will again someday.

CC;

I don't know how to answer that Learyfan. It's affected me on so many different levels. Mentally it has changed my whole outlook on life and my perception of the world. Spiritually it has given me the absolute faith in eternity that can only be had from being eternity. My philosophy's are all based on my experiances. I no longer see the world as a bunch of seperate species and things, but a connected matrix of biology and energy that flows to and from a core that is the pure light of unconditional love.
Physically it's affected me in that you never come back down completely.
But why would you anyway? You can't look at the truth and then pertend you didn't see it and that it doesn't exist.
A thumbprint is a life long commitment.
As for visual activity ,it's constant. But I hardly notice it anymore.
Eternity is in the here an now. So is my life, so they constantly flow together or against each other. Meditation is key for me now.
I no longer consider my physical reality my true reality.

Shit man I can't explain this stuff Learyfan. It's just not possible.
The more I explain ,the more I need to explain what I was trying to explain :tongue:
I guess you could sum it up as Robert Hunter did after his night of 250,000mcg.
"I died 1000 deaths"
Thats what it really is, death. Most people live there lives unsure about what happens when we die. Even the most devoutlly religous have anxiety about the big moment.
I don't , I welcome it. Thats how its changed me.
:grin:

WR:

I did something similar the summer of '77 I ate 1000+mics every day for 90 days and yep I had a huge tolerance at the end of summer........I thought.Then in Sept when I should have been signing up for school I "Thumbprinted" And NO I only thought I had tolerance.After I came around to this reality again I did come down but was also "changed".I took complete control over my schooling and my life(as well as complete responsibility)
BTW Ram Das says he "came down" but he changed his name to Ram Das and wears white robes and even he admits LSD helped precipitate his change.One wonders what his opinion would have been had he instead of walking out of the house and coming down he would have taken 1/2 gram of crystal at the end of his experiment?

The 50-500 range will saturate the seratonin system however LSD also affects other receptors like dopamine and noradrenaline to a lesser degree, at ultradoses these effects come more strongly into play negating the plateau effect.
Enter the difference between 500mcgs and 10000+ is incomparable as is the mode of ingestion.The change begins as the crystals melt on your tongue and is totaly unlike eating a pile of prelayed paper.One senses his imminent ego death coming as the crystals are absorbed into the tongue.the knowledge that you are totaly in the care of family is what one clings to as long as concepts such as family contain meaning then one is simply....gone. When awareness returns it is changed and IMO forever.
I have to laugh when Ram Das says he "came down" returning sobriety is not the same as being unchanged One does come down from a print but NOT UNCHANGED.
I have had the privelidge of speaking with Ram Das on several occasions and to this older tripper his "mark" is as clear as if it were painted upon his forehead.
Oh yeah thats another "side effect" I can spot a serious tripper no matter how many yrs have elapsed since their last dose.You should see the suprise when I spring it on the "reformed"
I would have to say to you Enter that you should meet those who have had the experience in person if possible and judge for your self if their experience is valid.
WR

CC:

What have I done with my life thats different. Everything!! I spent 8 years in hotel rooms around the country dipping gram after gram of blotter in hopes that one of these hits will bring somebody into the light. For 8 years I spread as much LSD around the country as I could, not for personal gain ,but for the hopes that it would help get the human race back on track.

Now I am dedicated to becoming a part of the misniscule research movement into psychedelics. I am just getting my BS in psychology/pre-med. Next is grad school or med school. This is all for the sole purpose of working with psychedelics in addiction and othe mental disorders they have shown great promise in. Whether this will happen in my lifetime I don't know, but I will try to help as much as possible. So now i'm consentrated on getting my MD or PhD.
I aslo spend countless hours on this website trying to dispell the enormous amount of LSD rumors there are.

As for personal differences it's changed everything. The way I interact with the world and the way I see it. It also brings me great sorrow to have been a part of a movement were the kind, beautiful potential of human relationships were reasized and then to see the rest of the world and how far off track it is.

As for the lord, I realize I have used this term in the past. Thats a mistake on my part because it ties in with the orthadox religions such as christianity and Islam.
I want no part of these religions and feel they do much more harm than good.
I do have faith in Eternity(my word for God). Seeing is believing :grin:

I could go on all day as for the changes, but I have a final exam in 1 hour.

[grandbaby]

Ein, zwei, drei, FEAR:

Someone else: CC-Any advice on how to prepare oneself for a high dose trip, as I'm planning a high dose mushroom + MAOI (Syrian Rue) trip for later this summer. I've been preparing for this for a month or two and have about 1.5-2 months to go. So now I'm just trying to gather as much info and advice as possible and cover all my bases. You obviously have a lot of experience, so would you mind describing the mental and physical preparation that would be helpful for the experience? It seems from the discussion in this thread and in "LSD: Crystal to Blotter" that one needs to completely submit to the psychedelic state. In preparation for a high dose trip, I plan to meditate a lot, read a lot, listen to a lot of my favorite music beforehand, walk in nature, get plenty of sleep, and just think. Also, I plan to have some fairly high dose trips stopping about 2-3 weeks before the big one. Anything else can/should do?

Of course, I'll have a sitter (though I'm sure I won't be getting up anyway) and will observe the MAOI dietary restrictions.

CC: You sound like you have the right idea. You definatley need to fast for at least 24 hours beforehand. Just be ready to let go, but on a high dose you don't have a choice. The more you cling to yourself on the way up the more painful it is.
Be humble and try to dispell any fear beforehand.

Other than that there's not really anything thats going to prepare you for the experiance. As your ego vaporizes and you go out you'll come to the realization that your actually experiancing death. Let it happen,because at that point you have no choice. Then you are gone, or I should say then you are "ALL".

Upon your return to the physical world take your time. Don't try to figure stuff out to fast. You have the rest of your life to figure out what happened. Stay in the moment as long as possible. You will return eventually, but your perspective will be very different.

"If I knew the way, I would take you home"

CC:

On a thumbprint size dosage you no longer have any beliefs. There is no you. Reactions can vary on the way up, but soon all your beliefs, attitudes and perceptions completly vaporize along with physical reality.
None of it survives a print. There is no I anymore only ALL. Afterwards your beliefs are very different or they may be similar if your beliefs were close to the truth to begin with.

People can bullshit there way threw alot of intense psychedelic experiances. Somehow they can hold onto there twisted ego games sometimes. On a thumbprint thats not even a possibility. You can't bullshit Eternity when it's blasting you to pieces. The more you try to hold on the quicker and harder it burns you. You dissolve and dissolve till theres no you left to hold on.

On a print you can go quietly and easily or you can go kicking and screaming, but you are going to go no matter what.

CC;

There isn't ever going to be any research on this. All we have is anceodotal evidence from those that have done it. For you this evidence won't be enough. For me it is. Why? Because I know hundreds if not over 1000 people that have done this. How many have had life altering effects that were harmful. None. My mind is bent but very well intact. I will be starting grad school soon. Most of the people I know who have printed lead very rich fufilling lives and are some of the most observant and kind people on earth. Many of these people have exelled greatly in the acedemic world.

As for research on thumbprints there isn't going to ever be any. I don't want there to be. It's a family thing.
We walk on faith alone. :heart:

CC: That information is available to anyone willing to seek it.
Research into huge dose of LSD will give nothing to science it can use.
Research into the benifits of theraputic uses will. The treatment of mental problems with LSD is something that science can measure and validate. The use of huge doses of LSD in blasting people into eternity is something that can't. Also after you realize the difficulty in getting research moving there is absolutaly no way that there will ever be research done on humans using thumbprint doses. Its just not ever going to happen. And it shouldn't either. Thumbprints should be administered by the family in a family setting, not a hospital.

These are experiances ment for certian situations. Its of vital importance as your sliping away and crying and flopping around that the person holding your hand is a kind brother or sister who has been there before. It's easier to let go and let God when your with family.
Thumbprints arn't for doctors to study and measure ,but for those who wish to give themselves to our holy sacrement 100%.

People who are printed are people that are felt to be ready and able to reap the benifits from the experiance. If there was a research study done on thumbprints I have no doubt as to the outcome. Doctors can't screen for motivation of heart.

CC:

I would have to agree. I did a undergraduate mini thesis on LSD potential and safety in treating mental disorders. I am quite convinced that LSD is one of if not the safest drug out there(physiologicaly). More people will die from antibiotics this month than have ever died or will ever die from LSD. LSD can be dangerous mentaly if used improperly or by the wrong people, but I personaly have no doubts about its physiological safety.

On a side not I personaly believe LSD could cause possible physiological complications if used by someone with cardio problems.
If the experiance went bad and anxiety and panic were greatly induced its logical this could cause problems. I don't view this as LSDs fault.
Also there could possibly be an LD-50 for LSD. We will never know it though.

CC: The thing about thumbprints is that after the first hour there is no you to create fear or trick your body into shutting down. We have taken BP and pulse of people on thumbprint size doses before and there is a slightly elevated BP and heart rate, but not to extreme. These were experianced people though, and there was no fear involved.

If you take someone with cardio problems that has little or no experiance with LSD and print them, then I could definatly see a bad outcome. It wouldn't be from physiological toxicology from LSD it would be from psychological trauma that interupted natural bio-rythims.IMO.
Really much lower doses have this potential also. We all know that our psychological state can greatly effect are physical state. Anybody can have there heart rate and BP go off the charts while there sitting still if the get mad enough. I have high BP myself and am on medication. My kids can annoy me so much sometimes that it sends it through the roof.

We can only speculate as to these hypothesis, as no studys will ever be done. The fact that these doses are usually only done by people ready for them greatly helps that there are so little negative outcomes.
Thats why I believe prints should be done in the mountians with family and not in a hospital like a lab rat.

One thing I have noticed is at print doses after the first hour when you have been vaporized and are completely gone breathing seems to stabalize. Before that the anxiety and fear have folks breathing like there in a marathon. After they have let go though it seems that the body continues to function quite normaly while there away. It's that first hour thats so traumatic.

There could be a dosage range though that can cause physiological harm. We don't know it and we never will, and people have survived more than a gram.
:tongue:

CC:

You do totaly lose control. There are people there to take care of you.
For maybe several days to a week afterwards you really need some babysitting.

Quote:
As for the saturation point thing, are you saying that the traditional saturation point is revealed only to be a plateau at multimilligram doses?



The limited literature on LSD indicates that after a certian amount increased dosages of LSD add nothing to the experiance. I have heard that this plateau is 500mcg. Lets just say 1000mcg. to be safe.
The difference between 1000mcg. and 100,000 mcg. is enormous.
Length and intensity both increase. Going by the "saturation level" logic this isn't possible. It becomes apparent rather quickly under the influence of a print that what is recorded about LSD plateau is wrong.
WR has spoken of other neurotransmitter systems becoming involved on print size doses. This seems logical to me. What exactly happens during thumbrints on the neurochemical level is something we don't know, but it becomes painfully clear that there is an increase in effect thats not placebo. At the miligram level I have trouble comparing doses of say 1 or 2 miligrams. I can tell little difference if any at all. On comparing doses of 1or 2 miligrams and 100mg. the doses are vastly different.

A couple weeks ago I did a little speck I would guess was somewere in the range of 2-3mg. Hadn't touched it in several years. Completely flattened me. The experiance was intense and hard(probably my last), but nothing in comparison to a thumbprint.

CC:

Yes I can tell a difference. In fact I think this is why there is a difference.
On a normal large dose of LSD there is the high visual activity, sensory alteration,synathesia, ego loss,ext,ext. On a thumbprint it feels like you completly short circiut your brain. All cognitive function stops. Like pouring water on a breaker panel it pops then all connections and activity are fried. The cognitive filter is shut off and eternity is able to creep in.Obviouslly all brain activity doesn't stop because you keep breathing and your heart keeps pumping. The brain stem , hindbrain, medulla,pons and cerebellum are probably not affected. I'll stop because i'm trying to explian something I can't explian nor do I know much about on a biological level.

WR: Well I have seen my first BAD print.
Country fair 2003 my neighbor dosed 1/10th gram.Definatly NOT a family thing. first it was degraded LSD,probably amber but degraded to a greenish hue,She dosed and NO ONE BABYSAT! They put her in a tent. Well after 12-16 hrs she began to stir, then got up and LEFT THE FAIR! Sunday night on my way home I found her walking the back country road we live on.I stopped to see if she needed a ride and recieved the blankest stare, she then just began walking again. I drove on down and told her people where she was and they retrieved her.
She was quite psychotic for a couple weeks and would slip back into a trip state
if she smoked weed. Now 2yrs later she is fine again but swears she will only do Libs and cyans ever again.
Such an irresponsible dosing,of such an ugly product,tells me that the family is no longer running all the Lucy.
Here in Eugene,Or ,while there is "real" family silver and a bit of fluff.Predominatly this green crystal is what is found(looks like someone is tweeking the amber algorythym in the direction of the lavender).It is being laid @ ~30-50mg on white paper by amatures who draw crooked lines in pencil to mark hits.
I pray that LSD is not overtaken by crap chemists wasting good ET making green shit.I no longer do LSD ,Just had my last go with about 600mcg of silver and 7g cubies for new year, my first taste in years but also my last, as China mentioned The BIG trips are more than I need any more so will go on back to the quarterly shroom or cactus journeys.
Any one else seen the "green"
WR :wexican:

WR: As far as thumbprints today I have been out of the loop for many yrs so I could not say if it is still the 'rite of passage" I suspect not since the support system is gone as well as plentiful and cheap acid. The only one I witnessed recently was several yrs ago a woman dosed a 1/10th but then was left to her own devices and I spotted her wandering the next day many miles from the festival and had to send her people to fetch her. In my day no one got printed unless there was folks to babysit and help reintegrate into reality. I just do not see the same support system about any more. I think a puddle is the best folks really get any more.
WR

a-b-deh-uh-b-deh-ah-buh-deet-that's all, folks!

[KBLSD]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

Apparently if someone takes more than about 800 mics, the experience gets longer than more intense, but SWIM wouldn't know.

I suppose someone may have done that to some alcoholics. That would be extreme psychedelic therapy. After all, the CIA dosed people who were visiting prostitutes.

I still don't think that dipping your finger in a drug with LSD seems a very bright idea. LSD is not very toxic, but its very potent, but people have got very sick dipping fingers in RCs.

ya thats what swim has heard but he heard as 1200 mics than it just gets longer