PMA still affecting me

[bennyben]

A tale from my tortoise

I took what i thought was MDMA back in June 2001. They were large speckled red/brown mitsubishi pills. I took 1 and then another and not much was happening. By the end of the night i had taken 4 and a half. All was ok until around 10 in the morning, i had one pull on a joint (i smoked weed all the time back then so wasnt a big deal) and started have muscle spasms. My heart was beating out of my chest and i thought i was dying. I felt this was for 2 hours or so, then it finally went away.

People around the time were saying thes pills had heroin in, which i thought was a load of rubbish. I am sure it was PMA. It took at least 2 hours to kick in, i had the eye lid twitches, etc. I know a few people who gave up taking pills after having a bad time off these ones.

I carried on smoking weed for a few months after even though it made me feel terrible. It would give me a very heavy heart beat and chest pains.

Now i can't take any drugs, even a tiny bit if cocaine makes me feel like i will have a heart attack. When i excercise i worry about having a heart attack. Even when i get slightly nervous now my heart beats very heavily and i get chest pains all the time. I also get red eye all the time and pins and needles in my fingers.

I am very angry that these greedy people made these pills for common sale to people wanting to take mdma, simply because it is cheaper. I would be very grateful if anyone has any information on the long term effects of PMA or has had a similar experience.

Thank you

[radiometer]

It seems pretty silly to "give up MDMA" because of getting some PMA pills. A simple Marquis test (ecstasy test kit) will readily show the difference.

Sorry to hear about SWIYs problems, I don't really have much advice. Hopefully someone else will.

[naatural]

Is it possible SWIY simply already had some heart problem he wasn't aware of before taking these pills? He should consult a doctor, although either way it wouldn't be advisable to take any more stimulants if his heart is going nuts :/

[Nagognog2]

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[Mr.E.Charlie]

SWIM had PMA

SWIM has taken PMA a few times , the first two were awful , vomiting and unable to stand . The second times were very good , from the same small batch from same manufacturer , very strong PMA but good experience . It's likely this is a sign you have an underlaying heart problem brought to the surface by PMA effects , go see a doctor tell him about your experience with PMA and the effects you still feel .

[naatural]

SWIY shouldn't risk it with PMA, I hear it has a very steep response curve, so just a few mg over the ideal dose and one could get himself into serious trouble :/

[Mr.E.Charlie]

yes PMA is very dangerous . It's got a high potential of overheating and a lot of people vomit or suffer nausea after taking PMA .

[noobadooba]

The target recreational dose for PMA that produces the best effects, is stupidly close to the dosage that causes your body to cook itself.

[Mr.E.Charlie]

Lol yes true . Overheating on PMA is unbearable , SWIM vaguely remembers mumbling "God , its hot in here !" before projectile vomiting water and blood . MDMA is a safer option LOL

[bennyben]

Thanks for the replies. I wonder if i did have a heart problem before or is it possible PMA damaged a healthy heart? I know at the glastonbury music festival, around the same time as my bad experience, 2 people died from taking the same pills. Also many people were falling ill and being taking to the first aid tents, but were ok after lying down for a couple of hours, maybe i am one of the lucky ones in this sense.

I have been to the doctor a couple of times, he forwarded me to a heart clinic to get one of those heart monitors attached for a week. Silly me didn't go though, i was too scared of what i would find out.

Radiometer, i agree with you. But at the same time if you have what feels like a near death experience, i think it is understandable giving up pills altogether.

[Mr.E.Charlie]

SWIM isn't sure about PMA causing heart problem , it's more likely to be underlaying . SWIY should definatly get it checked ASAP . Some people react differently to different drugs , pills especially , but PMA is dangerous .

[GreatWonder]

Sounds like SWIY has developed a panic phobia about drug taking / heart conditions. SWIG has the same, any drug that causes a change in how the body feels would cause an over reaction in SWIGs nervous system (ie adrenaline boost, fast pulse, centralized circulation (fingers and legs can go numb). Even the first cigarette of the day would sometimes make SWIG feel edgy. And hangovers can cause SWIG intense panic attacks.

Get checked over for peace of mind, but SWIG would say your body is just over preparing itself anytime something is taken that (even subliminally) connects with your previous experience.

[bennyben]

Thanks for the info it has put my worries to rest a bit, that sounds exactly like what i get. I gave up ciggarettes a few months ago as they made me feel edgy, sometimes bringing on panic attacks. I gave up cannabis as this would sometimes bring on the PMA experience again, i thought i might be having strokes.

Do you know if anything can be done about this condition? I also feel uncomfortable when taking off in planes and going on spinning fairground rides now, get a weird pins and needles sensation in my head. Not a nice feeling though!

[GreatWonder]

SWIG has spent years with these symptoms, the worst being a 6 hour panic attack after bombing a lot of speed - the come up sent SWIGs mind over the edge thinking something bad was going to happen, when infact it was just the speed having it's 'normal' effect. I felt like I was going to die from a massive heart attack, these negative thoughts produce more adrenaline which just increase the 'symptoms' you think you are experiencing. It's a negative loop.

The only way to avoid these symptoms, if they are indeed panic attacks, is to avoid the drugs. It's a 'learned behaviour' - your brain has learnt that everytime your body encounters whatever it thinks will harm you, it decides to go on 'red alert' - and any tiny feeling, be it an increased pulse, or a drug induced buzz or high, will result in a flood of adrenaline, increased heart rate etc. etc. to put you in the classic 'fight or flight' mode. Unfortunately your brain then believes these normal reactions are abnormal and must be an underlying problem - and in severe cases, imminent heart attack etc. etc. - and they can send you crazy for a while.

You have to remember how many times you have felt like this and what causes it - and has it infact led to anything serious. The answer is probably NO - but when you're suffering one of these attacks, your mind cannot reason with you that easily, and SWIG ended up thinking 'this time it's going to be the real thing'.

SWIG would only ever really have a good time on MDMA or speed when SWIG took it after a lot of alcohol - higher risks involved SWIG knows, but only then would the alcohol have allowed SWIG to 'relax' enough not to worry excessively about any adverse effects that were let's face it, unlikely to happen. Alcohol being a CNS depressant, same as benzo's - which are a short-term relievant of the whole panic attack scenario.

[bennyben]

Hangovers are alot worse than they used to be for me, they do seem to bring on panic attacks if i have been binge drinking for 3 days or so. Even a cup of coffee makes me feel strange now, it sounds like exactly what you say with my body and brain over-reacting to any stimulant. Can i ask what brought your symptoms on?

[GreatWonder]

Binge drinking. Simple as that.

It took SWIG a long time to work out the connection, but finally he worked that out as the most triggering factor. When SWIG drinks heavily it could take a couple of nights for SWIGs mind and body to recover, this would often involve a night or 2 of not being able to get to sleep, starting to drift off to sleep only to wake with such a jump, probably caused by SWIGs mind being overactive, to the point of feelings of going crazy.

This then extended to anything that would change SWIGs heartrate so included drugs, sometimes as extreme as simply having the first cigarette of the day.

It hasn't got worse, hasn't got much better, but SWIG keeps the drinking and other substances down to a minimum now and finds the further apart each experience the less severe the after effects. (SWIG also discovered benzos at the start of the year, but that's a different forum).

[bennyben]

I get exactly the same waking up with a jump in bed, suddenly sitting up and taking deep breaths. It feels like something to do with my heart, i used to put it down to having nightmares. I also have great difficulty getting to sleep sometimes as i have such a heavy heart beat. Do you get a strong heart beat from excercising (as in abnormally strong). i used to be very fit but now just walking up a flight of stairs makes my heart beat very heavily.

I would love to experiment a bit more with salvia the stuff is amazing, think i'll give everything else a miss though.

I wonder if being hypnotised might help in some way, do benzos help much?

[GreatWonder]

SWIG endures the exact same at night, after a binge on pretty much any drug or alcohol, and it can continue for 1 or 2 nights after that.

The mind is the last thing to switch off at night and for someone who has got wound up during the day due to symptoms they think they are suffering from, all it takes is for the mind to identify the body and muscles relaxing and interpret this as another 'unusual' and 'abnormal' state for it to get the adrenaline flowing, which results in the sudden increase in heartrate which makes you feel as though something sinister is about to happen.

SWIG has lost count of the times he has experienced this, and it is very scary, and you cannot reason with yourself at the time and tell yourself it's nothing to get extremely worked up about. Coupled with the dizziness and feeling of being on the verge of passing out during the daytime, it also led SWIG to believe he had heart issues.

Unless SWIM is willing to put up with these episodes it would be extremely wise to re-evaluate their recreational activities. While SWIG obtained benzos (Alprazolam) for social anxiety, he finds that they do pretty much guarantee a peaceful night, only last night SWIG was restless up until 1.30am and took 0.25mg Alprazolam and was fast asleep within 30 minutes. Yes, not a strong dose by all accounts but enough to take the edge off and stop SWIGs mind from thinking all sorts. If you want to learn more about Benzos though, check the forum on here it has plenty of information, though all Benzos must be approached with extreme caution due to tolerance and dependancy issues.

Finally, please learn to use 'SWIM' (or similar) in posts, while the current subject may be more of a medical nature, by using SWIM now it will help prevent you from receiving a warning (or worse) for not following the clear forum rules.