Experiences - Social Phobia is Ruining SWIM. Help!

[kareena]

Not really sure which sub-forum this should go into as it involves various different drugs, including some covered by this miscellaneous forum, a bit of recovery and addiction and some plain whack ideas. MickleMouse, if you think it should be moved some place else then thats cool as I'm clueless. SWIM knows there are other similar threads out there but wanted to start their own as details are different.

So SWIM suffers pretty harshly from social phobia/social anxiety and just doesnt know where to turn (doctors/psychs all been visited). Anyway, it's got to the point where this sorry excuse for a swimmer is crippled by their anxiety. Amazingly SWIM used to be almost the opposite to this; all the more depressing that SWIMs now semi-agoraphobic unless required to be in social situations. It really is a bitch cos people are kind of everywhere, making it a horrible affliction. SWIMs in no way asocial, although this is clearly how it appears, but instead just wracked by anxiety.

On the past illegal drug use front SWIMs used pretty much the lot except LSD and enjoyed most immensely and does not believe this to be a causing factor for anxiety, although SWIM doubts it helped (!) and quite a few of these substances are just plain not used anymore.

So how the fuck do you beat this beast. First thing many suggest is benzos and while SWIM knows they work getting a script is impossible in this country, while SWIM understands the dangers of tolerance and dependance and addiction even if a script were obtainable (completley impossible). Considering there is no chance of a script SWIM can't take the risk of getting a dependancy through illicit purchase as a dry period could be very unpleasant. Plus SWIM realises, even through their own small useage that tolarance shoots up and benzos appear to be an effective but short term answer, especially considering SWIM can't get a script.

SWIMs been prescribed pretty much all of the modern antidepressants (for anxiety, not depression!) with little or worse still negative effect (insomnia,&lots of others) and even a bunch of antipsychotics and mood stabilisers (again for anxiety, not psychosis or bipolar) with even worse effect and definately swears of all APs and MSs forever. It's pretty amazing that a benzo won't be prescribed after all of these ineffective drugs have been unsuccessful even just for infrequent use by all these docs!

SWIMs off these useless (for SWIM) prescription meds but does abuse the hell out of alcohol and occassionally still uses other drugs (not ones known to exacerbate anxiety, hell no, SWIMs talking downers, opiates, etc). This drug use does not concern SWIM as it's infrequent and under control but SWIM is disgusted by the alcohol use, mostly for it's anxiolytic effects but it's been getting out of hand, it's vile, destroying SWIM and it must stop.

So SWIM doesn't have a lot of options but will go through some thoughts and how best to tackle this ongoing problem- some sensible, others potentially sensible and some outright idiotic ideas.
1. Attack Cognitive Behaviour Therapy (CBT) with a specialist, with vigour. Though this has failed before, is expensive and hard work it's known to work well for social phobia and must be worth another shot!?
2. Use one of the older irreversible Monoamine Oxidase Inhibitors (MAOIs) antidepressants such as nardil. Although SWIM has downplayed the risks of hypertensive crises in another thread it is still a concern plus the side effects from this lot are pretty awful and likely to occur. There is evidence to suggest great efficacy for social anxiety with these meds so maybe the benefits would outweigh the cons. Getting prescribed one could be tough though not impossible.
3. This is where SWIM gets a little stupid and thinks outside the box a little. SWIM has read that a good LSD trip can really sort out the psyche, kill anxiety and help one sort themselves out mentally permanantly. A really bad trip would obviously make problems a lot worse so it's a big, probably stupid gamble. SWIM also read, here (?) that a member sorted anxiety issues out using DXM although has heard little about this elsewhere.

If you've got this far, SWIMs stunned cos it's a bit of a monster post, but thanks for reading and if you have any suggestions that would be cool.

[Heretic.Ape.]

Very sorry to hear about SWIY's problem, social anxiety is a beast that not many appreciate what a bugger it is. Along more conventional lines I would recommend finding a better behavioral therapist. Like you've mentioned behavioral therapy has proven very successful with this. Make sure the therapist focuses on the behavioral intervention aspect because the cognative aspect has been shown in repeated meta-analyses to be a completely negligable factor.
Along more out of the box recommendations, labmonkey likes the idea mentioned of trying DXM as he has recently had quite an experience with this substance that broke him out of a mental trap of increasingly problematic social anxiety and depression among other issues. His experiments with this are ongoing and I hope to post on his progress soon so I will share with you what he finds. Keep in mind that this option is recommended with some hesitency and may not be a great idea for everyone. If it is attempted swiy should not try to influence the trip at all and should accept everything that happens whether it seems good or bad at the time. Swiy should not leave the house and should just lay down in bed or something where swiy will be safe and comfortable when attempting to use psychedelics or disassociatives, especially for personal attempts at "ameteur therapy". As I say monkey is hesitent to recommend something like this but it is something he finds valuable, this may not hold true and may be opposite for others. Be warned.
Behavioral therapy can be very effective so give it a try and be patient, it takes time and constant effort.
Best of luck to swiy
h.a.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks for the info and sympathy- SWIYs right, social anx is a nasty beast few understand!

[Lehendakari]

SWIM had wonderful results with paroxetine, but he seems to be the only one around here so I wouldn't recommend it.

I tried all OTC stuff with mixed results and to be honest he still struggles with SP and hasn't found anythink better than paroxetine.

Benzos work very well to overcome symtoms, is swiy sure he/she can't get a script?

Anyway before swiy tries the prescribed stuff he/she could try this OTC stuff:

Phenibut + L-theanine, good combo, synergy with alcohol, not for everyday though

Kanna (Sceletium Tortuosum), SWIM found it to help a bit, but it was very expensive. SWIM is thinking about growing plants.

Kava Kava. Seems to work for some, did very little for SWIM

[grandbaby]

Sounds to me like if SWIY could find an underground therapist who'd be in for some MDMA therapy, that might be the ticket. Basically, you have to reprogram your amygdala to stop sending you freak-out signals every time you get into social situations, and one of the quickest ways to do that seems to be by flooding your brain with serotonin while you experience the thing you fear.

Good freaking luck finding such a therapist, though... and if you do, hey, man, referral please?

[Lehendakari]

Originally Posted by grandbaby

Sounds to me like if SWIY could find an underground therapist who'd be in for some MDMA therapy, that might be the ticket. Basically, you have to reprogram your amygdala to stop sending you freak-out signals every time you get into social situations, and one of the quickest ways to do that seems to be by flooding your brain with serotonin while you experience the thing you fear.

Good freaking luck finding such a therapist, though... and if you do, hey, man, referral please?

Does swim knows if this actually work long term?? MDMA for sure will make one pro-social and kill all the fears but I doubt it can be a long term treatment. Is there any research about it? Any reference?

[Heretic.Ape.]

Have you looked in the archive, I think there may be some material on it in there.

[FrankenChrist]

What mdma can do is open a temporary door out of your current state and mindset, so that you have a taste of what it is like to not have social anxiety. Once you have experienced this, you could work with it and keep the memory of this feeling as a motivator for further therapy and personal development.
So you shouldn't have repetitive experiences with too little time in between, mdma is not something you can keep using frequently, since your serotonin levels need to be replenished, and that might be a little trickier than for most since you may already have low serotonin levels. There are some artificial methods for this (5-htp, l-tryptamine, etc, there is info enough in this forum)

Now, with mdma there will be a backlash you need to be prepared for and for which you need supervision. You might feel even worse for a while after your experience is over.

Basically, it's not just the drug that matters but the context as well. Everything I said here applies to social anxiety, depression and similar and related afflictions.

Lastly, you need other people to push you out of your comfort zone if you can't do this yourself. Sometimes this is the only way to learn.

Good luck.

[grandbaby]

Simply taking MDMA and trying to reprogram yourself would be a risky business at best. MDMA-assisted therapy, however, has proven effective in longer-term recovery from phobias and PTSD. There should be plenty of info floating around if you UTSE.

[kareena]

Thanks for all the responses.

SWiLehendakari, afraid there's no way SWIM could get a benzo script, SWIMs in the UK where (although still prescribable) they are basically outlawed. If they are scripted it's only ever for a few weeks. Using benzo's or MAOIs probably would work (although with various pro's and con's- benzo pro's- work well, benzo con's- tolerance/dependance, no scripts; MAOI pro's- may work, MAOI con's- side effects likely pretty savage).

SWIMs also tried OTC methods but unfortunately finds these pretty useless.

Anyway, the main reasons SWIM doesn't like the sound of these precribable/OTC meds much is that, as already mentioned by others, they are only temporary- they mask the symptoms but not the causes- they won't cure SWIM. That's why SWIM likes the idea of some sort of therapy getting to the bottom of it to cure the problem rather than mask it.

Some conventional therapy should/will probably be used first and while SWIM understands the dangers of unconventional amateur therapy this doesn't sound like such a bad idea at times but SWIM will play it as safe as possible.

SWiGrandbaby, SWIM likes your idea of MDMA assisted therapy but very much doubts such a therapist would be found easily! As SWiFrankenChrist notes though, SWIM serotonin levels are probably screwed from the antidepressant battering they've taken; coupled with some past MDMA use too.

SwiH.A, SWIMs glad your DXM therapy is working well, good luck with that, and it will be interesting to see what SWIY reports back!

Cheers again.

[Lehendakari]

Here's a good link.

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32524