Harder to Kick? Cocaine or opiates?

[Fantasian]

Many have been through the body destroying withdrawals that opiates present after the loving touch that they give. Other have been through the burning desire for more cocaine after the heroic steel spine that it gives.

I know the reasons for wanting more are differant and each one presents it's own problems.

Which habit do people think it's harder to kick?

[Alicia]

possibly opiates due to the psychological crushing and nasty withdrawal associated. Cocaine is more just a morish nuisance head high then anything else.

Now combine them both in a syringe thats a different one altogether

[Fantasian]

hehe too true, SWIF is far to afraid of that, I think it's like compairing desire to fear somehow. Opiates i felt that SWIF always took more in fear of the withdrawal as oppose to the desire to get more where as cocaine was the desire, always the desire.

[Dissociative]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

Opiates i felt that SWIF always took more in fear of the withdrawal as oppose to the desire to get more where as cocaine was the desire, always the desire.

SWIM kind of feels the same way, but even though SWIM had horrible withdrawals, he still had a burning desire to get more opiates, no matter what it took.

[Pinkavvy]

No comparison really. Simply the physical withdrawls from opiates make it much harder to quit then anything else swip has ever had to do.

[Fantasian]

Alright so the question that follows is If one has kicked opiates does that prepare him to kick cocaine?

[tayo]

cocaine seems mostly mental, and opiates are mostly physical which can turn to mental. believe there are some articles that show cocaine can treat opiate withdrawals... and would explain when swim switched opiates to cocaine a couple years back he didn't experience opiate withdrawals but when recently kicked opiates again, he did.

"cocaine attenuates opiate withdrawals"
and
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...20/ai_15900931

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/en...&dopt=Abstract

[cyndi]

Originally Posted by tayo

cocaine seems mostly mental, and opiates are mostly physical which can turn to mental. believe there are some articles that show cocaine can treat opiate withdrawals... and would explain when swim switched opiates to cocaine a couple years back he didn't experience opiate withdrawals but when recently kicked opiates again, he did.

"cocaine attenuates opiate withdrawals"
and

Swiy or T, a friend of mine died recently from switching from heroine to cola since she thought that cola would be easier to kick. She did the same thing. Stopped using the cola and went back to slamming heroine. Then her addiction really got out of control and she was speedballing, oh using coke and heroine for those who don't know the term, that is what killed her basically. Swim is still in major pain over this as she tried to convince her friend to quit. This was when swim was still clean before her relapse back to meth. Vicious cycle man.

Also look at the pole coke 3%, Heroine 88% come on now! LOL!

Edited to say someone called me ignorant of opiate wds. Where do you get that? Yes swim has had them and they are horrible. That neg. rep was not warranted all all!!!!!!

[methMADMAN]

I disagree with the poll. I'm not completely without experience, but will not state it because this in particular isn't about me, and I've never had a "habit" of either substance. I have however seen a LOT of addicts of both kinds, and the pattern I have seen, is this: Opiate addicts seemingly have a harder time initially because of obvious reasons; they get dopesick. Coke addicts however have a harder time in the long run because the nature of that drug is same like methamphetamine, as it changes brain chemistry and destroys the brains ability to experience pleasure through any normal means. When the opiate addict has finally kicked, and been through the withdrawl to it's conclusion, no such imparement exists, and opiate addicts have a far easier time maintaining abstinance. The cocaine user is in for a much longer physical readjustment and it's unclear whether the damage, when severe, is ever fully reversible. The methamphetamine addict has this problem to a far greater degree even than with cocaine, so they are really, well for lack of a better word, "fucked". My experience is that it's harder to get an opiate addict to try to cik, but much more difficult for a stimulant addict to maintain long term abstinance. And I have been a professiona in the field, and have MUCH life experience with all three addictions., So that's my 3 cents (I get an extra penny of credibility because of my former profession dontcha know!)

[imyourlittlebare]

swims opinion is opiates. the science suggests opiates as well. i posted this in another thread but hopefully you all can find it informative

http://www.brightsurf.com/news/headl...the_Brain.html

http://www.medscape.com/medline/abstract/10400894


JOURNAL OF NEUROSCIENCE METHODS 124 (2): 189-196 APR 15 2003
Year: 2003 Abstract: Using a long-term potentiation (LTP) method, we attempted to establish an electrophysiological assay for morphine dependence and withdrawal in rats in vitro. The field excitatory postsynaptic potential (fEPSP) and orthodromic population spikes (OPS) were recorded from stratums radiatum and pyramidale, respectively, of area CA1 following stimulation of Schaffer collaterals in control and morphine-dependent slices. To induce LTP, a 100 Hz primed-burst stimulation protocol was used. Although morphine exposure had excitatory effects on control slices, namely, an increase in the amplitude of primary population spikes (PSs) and appearance of extra PSs, slices taken from dependent rats demonstrated tolerance to morphine. LTP of the fEPSP was not changed in slices from dependent animals although dependent slices did show an enhanced OPS LTP compared to control ones, which was attenuated by morphine exposure. In the presence of morphine, naloxone caused a withdrawal phenomenon; apparent as a robust enhanced OPS LTP in dependent slices. So we propose morphine-naloxone withdrawn slices as a suitable in vitro withdrawal-like model. Such an in vitro preparation could provide a convenient practical experimental tool for examination of the probable molecular and cellular mechanisms involved in withdrawal states. (C) 2003 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.
BRAIN RESEARCH 815 (2): 419-423 JAN 9 1999 Year: 1999 Abstract: In this study, the effects of chronic morphine administration (20-30 days) on long-term potentiation (LTP) were investigated at the Schaffer collateral-CA1 pyramidal cell synapses of the rat hippocampal slices. Orthodromic population spike (OPS) amplitude and delay (peak latency) were measured as indices of increase in synaptic efficacy. The amounts of LTP of OPS delay and LTP of OPS amplitude were higher in slices from dependent rats. Perfusion of slices from control and dependent rats with morphine containing ACSF and delivering tetanic stimulation, showed that short-term presence of morphine could not mimic the LTP enhancing effects of chronic morphine administration, however, attenuated the amount of LTP of OPS amplitude in slices of dependent rats. This study supports the hypothesis that the susceptibility of CAI synapses to plastic changes increases by chronic, not acute exposure to morphine and suggests that a withdrawal phenomenon might be an underlying mechanism for the observed augmented LTP of OPS amplitude in slices of dependent rats. (C) 1999 Elsevier Science B.V. All rights reserved.


Current status of drug dependence/abuse studies: Cellular and molecular mechanisms of drugs of abuse and neurotoxicity. p.414-423 Year: 2004 Abstract: The long-lasting effects of exposure to drugs of abuse on the brain is a central theme in drug addiction research. This study was designed to evaluate whether enduring neurochemical adaptations within caudate putamen can be evoked by a single injection of a high dose of morphine. Rats were pretreated once with 10 mg/kg morphine. Seven days later the effect of another injection of 10 mg/kg morphine on total levels of dopamine (DA), 3,4-dihydroxyphenylacetic acid (DOPAC), and homovanilic acid (HVA) in caudate putamen was assessed in half the pretreated animals. An irreversible μ-opioid receptor antagonist, cloccinamox (C-CAM; 0.1 mg/kg), significantly antagonized the elevation of the HVA/DA ratio, but not the elevation of the DOPAC/DA ratio induced by morphine in the caudate putamen from drug-naive animals. Pretreatment with morphine blunted changes in the HVA/DA ratio induced by another morphine challenge, but it had no effect on the DOPAC/DA ratio within the caudate putamen. Therefore, a single dose of 10 mg/kg morphine hampered nigrostriatal DA release and extraneuronal metabolism, μ-opioid receptor mediated, on another 10 mg/kg morphine challenge.

and a word about neuroscience as well

opiates- destroy branching from the nucleus accumbus (the pleasure center of the brain)

cocaine and meth and such- increase branching from the nucleus accumbus

the depression opiate addicts have is intolerable and lasting. that is the basis for methadone treatment . cocaine addicts are not given a cocaine substitute for the reason that as time goes one those branches will return to normal. it is much harder if not nearly impossible for the brain to rebuild those branches while it is much easier (speaking in a biological way not the horrible feelings the cocaine addict goes through) for the brain to sever those branches.

[asaru969]

SWIM has been able to leave cocaine behind for many years now,but has been trying very hard to quit opiates for 12 yrs...he's had some success with it but seems to releapse everytime..SWIM thinks that opiates are the most difficult drug to quit,hands down...

[MrJim]

SWIM did a helluva lot of cocaine when he was younger, but never had problems leaving it behind, it was most difficult, as Alicia said, when it was combined with heroin. But even then, when the money got low the coke was the first to go.

[VincentVan]

Hard earned experience convinced me that it all comes down to how fit one is for the struggle.
They say that what doesn´t kill you makes you stronger.
If that would be true SWIM would be iron man of the century.

VV.

" We are here to help each other get through this thing; whatever it is."
(Kurt Vonnegut. -"Bluebeard"- )

[Rio Fantastic]

Cocaine doesn't even begin to compare to Opiates. Crack does, but it's a five minute feeling followed by a bad feeling, which means crack kind of cancels itself out in your brain. Sure, you'll crave the head high again, but opiates are totally different. It's hours of feeling good, and then you wont feel bad until a couple of days later, and then opiates are the medicine to cure it.

[dr.gonzo]

Swim had plenty of fun times with coke and can still occasionally indulge in some powder fueled nights without any harsh consequences--such as craving for another taste when the well runs dry.

As for opiates, Swim spends more time scoring, using, and thinking about the next fix more than he'd care to admit. These drugs seem to be dominating his life these days. Swim is in a constant struggle of cyclically wanting to clean up his act following wanting to stay high forever. I don't think that cocaine could ever cause a similar conflict for him.

[cyndi]

Ehhhhhh swim has sat on her hands long enough here. OK coke and heroine are wayyyyyy different. Obviously heroine is harder to kick because a hell of a lot of physical pain keeps the user using. Coke is easier, more psycological really, it eases with time and not that much obsession during swim's coke binge days like with the meth. It is in swim's opinion coke is more recreational than heroine. Heroine is serious crap that will alter your life in a messed up way. Don't get swim wrong people do have problems with cola but can seem to kick it easier if they really want to. Ok where is meth in the little pole? If one is to compare, compare hard to hard street drugs. Although coke can be a nasty habit too, it is a bad comparison.

Reputation Comments on this post:

a good personal account, that most can relate to on this forum.

[someone111]

swim is addicted to coke and tramadol.... swim is doing much better making it off coke he has almost went a week without it but tramadol is a different story.... swim takes 1200mg twice a day... when he wakes up and at night are the times swim takes it.... so swim has to say opiates are very much harder to kick

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Totally different things all together.And if opiates just offered painful physical withdrawals they might be easier to kick,anyone that has been addicted to opiates know that the physical withdrawal is only one part of it.Even after the physical hurt goes away a craving always exist.A person just doesn't feel "right"and things they once enjoyed aren't enjoyable and you constantly think"This would be fun if swim had some opiates."

[someone111]

swim also cant concentrate without tramadol.... he goes in a zombie like state

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Tramadol has some SSRI properties so swim wonders if withdrawal from tramadol would also have some things in common with SSRI withdrawal?

[someone111]

swim gets depressed without it and when somthing happens swim always turns to the tramadol for help....... the withdrawal from it is crazy and swim doesnt no how hes gonna get off of it.... swim took 35 pills last night and woke up still high

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Hmm swim is dependent on far more serious opiates so he isn't sure how tramadol withdrawal is in comparison.Swim is sure it is addictive but isn't too sure what the severity of it is.

[keats]

Tobacco. SWIM has been addicted to and quit all 3, and tobacco was by far the hardest.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim can definitely believe that swikeats.Swim doesn't ever see himself quitting smoking.Swim knows it can be done but if he can't even kick opiates then cigarettes are just not possible.

[someone111]

swim finds tramadol more addicting than any other opiate