Opinions - is cocaine HCl better than crack cocaine ?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Originally Posted by dbjay417

A lot of crackheads can function without crack. They can go to work, or to PTA meetings without having to smoke crack.

Opiate addiction is a full time addiction. If an opiate addict, tried to work an 8 hour shift without getting a fix, they'd be feeling ill in 4 hours, and by the end of their shift they would be so dope sick their coworkers or boss would probably have to call an ambulance or relative to come get them.

Opiate use is fun, but opiate addiction from my POV is a nightmare like drowning or being burned alive. The opiate addicts I've met cant function without it cause their sick, and cant function with it, because their high.

This is true but the attitude and mentallity is different.Swim has met some very sweet opiate addicts,crack on the other hand seems to actually make people enjoy violent and degenerate behavior instead of just engaging in bad behavior because they are sick and need a fix.Maybe swim is stereotyping but he has had some very bad experience with crackheads.

Swim can understand powder cocaine addiction a little more,he isn't a big fan of it but atleast it's abit more enjoyable than crack.

[dbjay417]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

This is true but the attitude and mentallity is different.Swim has met some very sweet opiate addicts,crack on the other hand seems to actually make people enjoy violent and degenerate behavior instead of just engaging in bad behavior because they are sick and need a fix.Maybe swim is stereotyping but he has had some very bad experience with crackheads.

Swim can understand powder cocaine addiction a little more,he isn't a big fan of it but atleast it's abit more enjoyable than crack.

This is true, an opiate high is a very sensual, warm, friendly high that disarms and relaxs users, where as cocaine tends to feed the ego and plays to a selfish additude. I find the perfect example to be the users themselves.

I like to think that heroin and other opiates feed the right side of the brain, creative and dreamy, where cocaine feeds the analytical left side of the brain.

This is why famous artists, musicians, and poets have generally favored opiates and high powered businessmen, doctors and scientists have historically favored cocaine. Thats my take on the matter anywayz.

But still, a cocaine/crack addict can function properly in society for decades, where as an opiate addict will eventually become for all intents and purposes a cripple living on tax payers dollars.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Why do people like crack?They get a good feeling for about ten seconds,feel paranoid and jittery for about ten minutes,and then want more?Why?Why devote so much time to something so futile?If they are going to get hooked on something atleast choose something that really does feel good like uh opium.Swim just does not get it?What is the crackhead mentallity?

Chemically it's pretty obvious, dopamine is key in the brains reward systems, crack causes a massive release of it then a lower amount of it. People do it because subconciously due to their actions it feels like what they want.

The euphoria and other feelings you describe are from what SWIF understands just side effects from the key effect. Crack and cocaine to a lesser degree is about desire, it feeds itself.

Just SWIF's oppinion.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

Chemically it's pretty obvious, dopamine is key in the brains reward systems, ...

Hey Pete-Fantasian,
Your signature cracks me up.
Oops! I meant...
"Your signature cracks swim (not me!) up"--
a lot.

[AceOvArts]

I would say if SWIO hasnt been addicted to crack then how could he/she judge the difference in enjoyment between powder and crack. SWIM hasnt done crack but has does his fair share of powder, from what SWIM hears and reads he tells me the crack high is supposed to be more intense as are the lows. There is your reason right there, people that get addicted generally dont plan it.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim has not been addicted to either one he has however tried both.While he atleast received some minor enjoyment from powder cocaine he found none in crack.

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Swim has not been addicted to either one he has however tried both.While he atleast received some minor enjoyment from powder cocaine he found none in crack.

i think it's two things here.

1) for someone to get addicted to something they've got to enjoy it, some people will never ever be crackheads they just dont like it. Others find feelings better, just as with music people have differant tastes.

and

2) like i mentioned before, alot of the addiction can be subconcious craving as oppose to the actual desire for a pleasurable euphoric experience. Although im generalizing most 'crackheads' SWIF knows arn't researching and trying to understand the feelings they're getting on online forums and books, they're just responding to a desire to do more crack without ever really understanding the neurobiology of it.

[Swimster]

Originally Posted by Fantasian

like i mentioned before, alot of the addiction can be subconcious craving as oppose to the actual desire for a pleasurable euphoric experience. Although im generalizing most 'crackheads' SWIF knows arn't researching and trying to understand the feelings they're getting on online forums and books, they're just responding to a desire to do more crack without ever really understanding the neurobiology of it.

good point!

swim believe's that it would defenately be benaficial if 'crackheads' knew more about what they are doing.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

No most crackheads swim has met aren't the reading type,maybe another stereotype but they usually don't seem to be the intelligent type.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

No most crackheads swim has met aren't the reading type,maybe another stereotype but they usually don't seem to be the intelligent type.

Swim is a addict--not proud of it, but is. Swim is a senior corporate executive, with 3 degrees, 2 major certifications, and belongs to 2 of the top IQ clubs. He has a family and pays the bills.

As far as violence... in that world, it's the dealers-- the ones that don't do what they sell. They're controlled by worse drug of all, greed. I've seen it first hand and there's no end to it. The difference between violence from greed and crack is the expanse. Swim's about a week away from going head to head with it--and a $20 bill won't cut it, like it would with a c-head needing a dove (btw, swim's never seen a craving that bad in all the people swim's met). This guy, Mr. Greed, is real and he'll try to take my career if I spill what I know... which I will, because I must.

I was offended by this post, Orchid.

I know you said, "those you met," "usually not," and "maybe another stereotype," but it was the "maybe" that really set me off because most of the addicts swim's met are the intelligent type, though not all by any shot, who are victims of the choices they made.

And, also, until you've (at least) mastered punctuation for a one(?) sentence post... "maybe" you should leave that evaluation to those of us less fortunate.

thanks.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	well said
	i agree orchid is full of crap

[Fantasian]

Originally Posted by IzzyFreaky

Swim is a addict--not proud of it, but is. Swim is a senior corporate executive, with 3 degrees, 2 major certifications, and belongs to 2 of the top IQ clubs. He has a family and pays the bills.

As far as violence... in that world, it's the dealers-- the ones that don't do what they sell. They're controlled by worse drug of all, greed. I've seen it first hand and there's no end to it. The difference between violence from greed and crack is the expanse. Swim's about a week away from going head to head with it--and a $20 bill won't cut it, like it would with a c-head needing a dove (btw, swim's never seen a craving that bad in all the people swim's met). This guy, Mr. Greed, is real and he'll try to take my career if I spill what I know... which I will, because I must.

I was offended by this post, Orchid.

I know you said, "those you met," "usually not," and "maybe another stereotype," but it was the "maybe" that really set me off because most of the addicts swim's met are the intelligent type, though not all by any shot, who are victims of the choices they made.

And, also, until you've (at least) mastered punctuation for a one(?) sentence post... "maybe" you should leave that evaluation to those of us less fortunate.

thanks.

Without breaking into a massive flame, i think you find that more people who are addicted to crack do not have the qualifications and intelligence that you have. While this is a generalization, i think it's a fair fact. Maybe not where you are from but certainly where im from and it appears orchid has a similar experience. Dont get me wrong, many genious' of history are opiate, ketamine and crack addicts. But i think most people find that at least 90% are somewhat 'lower intelligence'. Sorry if you took offence it's just an impression from SWIF's experience.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Yes swim detects a very selfish attitude from most heavy crack users.This is why swim thinks alot of them can take pleasure in violent acts towards others.

[dbjay417]

I dunno that they take pleasure in violence. I think its more of a cold heartless indifference. The numbness caused by cocaine tends to extend beyond the pysical and well into the psychological.

[rocksmokinmachine]

SWIM has an addiction to both, and understands exactly what SWIY is talking about. The heroin addicts where SWIM is from are the petty thiefs and shop lifters, generally causing low level crime. The crack addicts are the ones doing violent streets robberies and muggings.

[beentheredonethatagain]

I have read a lot of sterero typing going on here. To just simply say crack will make one crazy and violent while begging for change , or to say that a opiate addict will charm you and go to work everyday is just being viewed thru a one sided shade

[AceOvArts]

I agree Izzy the thing with drugs is they really dont care if youre intelligent or very dim, all manner of men and women from all walks of life. Drugs have no boundaries in class.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by AceOvArts

I agree Izzy the thing with drugs is they really dont care if youre intelligent or very dim, all manner of men and women from all walks of life. Drugs have no boundaries in class.

True enough, thanks Ace.
Whether it's an environment one grows up in or one sought out, addicts come in all sizes and shapes.
Whether started through peer pressure, reasons to escape, or a desire to experiment, if one's chemistry aligns with the effect of X, doing more will be high on one's list... and getting hooked is a matter of time, if not already too late.

If one's chemistry doesn't align with X, one is left to wonder why others do it.

Pertaining to crack: Some users started with it and others switched to it (from powder), to disguise their use and for its stronger effect.

This thread asked, "Why not use O?"
Swii thinks it's a mix of many reasons: It's partly "Why switch?" when you're happy with X, it's partly the availability of O (swii's never seen it), and it's the fear of developing a second addiction when X is hard enough to handle, as is.

Swii's been asked if he wants to try Y and says "No thanks," for the 1st and 3rd reasons above. And maybe, subconsciously, he says it to act-out the answer he wishes he'd given about X.

[JaWill88]

smoking crack and snorting powder are completely different. snorting coke feels nothing like smoking crack at all. smoking crack produces way way more intense effects for a shorter time and way worse comedown. because of how intense the comedown is some people cant help but to do whatever they can to get the next hit

[manda]

Because that shit's motherflocking crack!
A quicker, floatier high.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by Kymistry

I often wonder why people smoke crack when they can just do a line or two and get the exact same feeling . SWIK's personal opinion is that "CRACK is Wack". SWIK knows a bunch of people that snort coke and they all can maintain a job and otherwise lifestyle. People that smoke crack behave differently and are much more irratic. They stand it front of corner stores and beg for spare change. They are more prone to stealing and trying to sell people things. Why does crack do this? This is only my personal opinion and you may know someone different. So please don't be offended. But I have never seen anybody control a crack habit. The habit often controls them. So if you have an opinion on this subject please reply. Let the posting begin.

Do the drug,don't let it do you!-KYMISTRY

I figured it was time to get back to the purpose of this thread. So, here you go, Kymistry.

Some users started with crack and never had a line in their life. Others switched to it (from powder), to disguise the use. Powder users are easier to spot: all those nose problems. With extended use, one's nose just gives up and, if you're committed to the drug, you'll try smoking it and find that crack has a stronger and more immediate effect. There's no question that it's a dangerously addictive drug that controls and vies for 1st place (same with coke and other drugs), but it isn't fair to conclude that the behavior you see is due to crack.

Without a thorough case study on someone you see, you really can't assume it's the fault of one thing... especially because good crack doesn't produce the erratic effect you describe when used or the times in between. It's most likely due to a combination of things.

Those I’ve seen beg for change are homeless. So, I’ll take you through the life of a homeless beggar addict which might help explain an erratic behavior. Some of it might fit those you see, some not, but it's a perspective that I hope helps.

In California, begging is mostly a daytime job and the homeless run a pretty tight schedule: certain times to shower and eat, buses to catch, and laundry. They have to get to the best place to beg at the right time of day before it's taken. Some wonder all day long where they'll sleep. Forget about sex... and for the most part, it's forgotten.

They have social issues with other homeless people. They're often blamed for things they didn't do and have to work to set things straight. They worry about others stealing from them or being beaten up, as a high school prank or sport. They live a very stressful life and it makes them jumpy.

Maybe it's due to an improper cut--when a drug is used in the cut, from heroin to speed, which deepens and expands the addiction (a secondary benefit of reducing cost) or due to indiscriminate use of other drugs, of equally questionable quality, mixed together and taken with liquor.

There are other reasons that aren't attributable to the chemical effect of a drug or its absence.

Often, the homeless are a bit jumpy because they're embarrassed. (It's hard to be that low.) Some are keeping an eye-out for someone they owe or the cops--if it's illegal to loiter or beg or if they're carrying a needle or pipe. After 20 rejections or more, they'll meet someone who digs in their pocket or purse. Then, there's the anticipation of what they'll receive. A dollar? Five? They're usually rushed to find out and have to be ready to say "Thank you. God bless," even when it's less than they hoped.

Maybe they have a health issue. Maybe they're becoming ill from sleeping outside, or from coming in contact with something bad, from malnutrition, or maybe they suffer from a physical or mental condition that existed before the addiction. Some battle with depression. Some are haunted with what was or could have been. Many have children they haven't seen for years.

They want to get high--who wouldn't, if it's the only way out... which it is, in either truth or belief. They’re nervous about making the score and where they’ll go to consume it. They don’t have homes or cars, can’t afford a room in a hotel, and their family and friends are used up.

They're limited by distance, time and cash, so they buy what they're offered, and offend their system with a variety of drugs. They don’t have position to complain about cut--not that they would. They're happy to get what they got and don't want to piss a connection off.

They worry about their budget: cigs, lighters, pipe, chore, and crack. Will they have enough cash? Can they borrow? Of course not. When will the Welfare check arrive?

At some point in the day, if low, they'll have a moral issue to decide. Some will fail and resort to theft—though most don’t and won’t, unless it’s just too easy and tempting. Some not even then. I've met enough homeless addicts to know most have standards and want to preserve their reputation. Believe it. I’ve seen it held stronger by them than some professionals I know.

Finally, a person whose life is like this knows that whatever drug they get will not be enough to change the fact that tomorrow will be the same as today--if they make it through the night--nevertheless, for that brief 30 minutes or few hours, they are going to feel better than perfectly fine... and what else do they have?

The erratic behavior I see in homeless addicts doesn't relate to the chemical effects of crack (neither its use nor its absence) but relates to the other things they battle in life and the burden they're anxious to escape.

The more desperate they are, the more erratic they seem.

Just a few thoughts. Hope it helps.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good post
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[Orchid_Suspiria]

While not trying to start flamewar swims self the majority of experiences swim has had with crackheads have been negative.Swim really can't recall a positive one for that matter.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

While not trying to start flamewar swims self the majority of experiences swim has had with crackheads have been negative.Swim really can't recall a positive one for that matter.

I hear ya. Swii wouldn't call any his friend, really, and many are so gone that it's best to avoid them.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim still feels abit bad stereotyping,swim is sure there are decent crackusers in the world.He just hasn't met them yet.

[IzzyFreaky]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Swim still feels abit bad stereotyping,swim is sure there are decent crackusers in the world.He just hasn't met them yet.

I'm sorry. I think that button of mine comes from childhood.

[x cynic x]

Smoking causes a shorter, but higher cocaine concrentration in Swiys blood stream, making it a more addicting feeling. It takes longer to absorb in the nose, so the rush is lessened. But what about all those IV coke users? Wouldn't you think they would be the worst off?