Combinations - what drug combinations are absolute no-nos?

[frenchywife]

MDMA and Meth - worst trip ever - thought SWIM was going to die and the ill after effects lasted for days (i.e., tingling in left arm and hand, dizzy, and extremely toxic!)

[Expat98]

Another one is Viagra and poppers (alkyl nitrates). The two of these together can cause blood pressure to drop to a dangerously low level or trigger a heart attack. A lot of guys use Viagra to offset the "lazy willy" effect of other drugs like MDMA or meth. Just remember not to throw poppers into the mix too.

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nice addition; but it's alkyl nitrites, not nitrates.

[uhoh]

Originally Posted by frenchywife

MDMA and Meth - worst trip ever - thought SWIM was going to die and the ill after effects lasted for days (i.e., tingling in left arm and hand, dizzy, and extremely toxic!)

OK there's a trick to combining MDMA (what we mostly call "E") and Meth (what we call "T" short for "Tina"). It can be bad or good depending on which you take first.

Good: Using Meth 1st, then taking an MDMA. SWIM has found with more meth in your system at the time you take the E, the stronger the euphoria of the MDMA as it starts to hit. There seems to be a sympathetic relationship here.

**SWIM finds best to time the MDMA dose towards the early-to-middle part of a meth "run"..dopamine levels should be peaking. Ecstasy mellows the grind a bit, and makes for a sexier high.

**SWIM cautions you beware of popping an E after many hours on speed when the dopamine/adrenaline stores are running low. You may not want to start crashing just as you're trying to come up on the MDMA. It will likely produce the nightmare effect described below:

Bad: Using MDMA !st, then Meth. For SWIM within 15 minutes mellow euphoria from the MDMA is gone. What remains- for hours and hours: agitation, fast walking, teeth grinding, and for SWIM a splitting headache. Happens every time. Will SWIM ever learn?

For SWIM this unpleasantness is a hell like no other.

[tayo]

yeah that's a good point, vasodilators should be taken into consideration. like the weightlifting supplement, NOXplode. which L-arginine increases NO levels and acts as a vasodilator.... and yeah that would suck to die while huffing a popper right as you had an orgasm... what a way to go out.

[Expat98]

That got me wondering about combining L-arginine with Viagra, since I may try L-arginine as a daily supplement in the near future. I found this about the subject:

Q. Can L-arginine and Viagra be taken together?

A. Though the sexual benefits of using Viagra and L-arginine are
similar, their mechanisms of action differ. Both Viagra and L-arginine
carry contraindications (cautions/warnings) for use. Improperly
formulated L-arginine formulas can cause mild to severe medical
problems. Viagra users are cautioned not to use nitrates and nitrites
in conjunction with Viagra. Nitrates are indiscriminate on venous
pooling and arterial compliance, but arginine is utilized where
its mechanism of action is required. Therefore, it is not likely
that arginine would cause hypotension when taken with Viagra,
but not totally impossible, particularly when other medications
(such as nitroglycerin) are used which disrupt homeostatic blood
pressure mechanisms and when there is pre-existing severe coronary
and/or cardiovascular disease.

The current published DRUG INTERACTIONS state "At this time,
there are no well-known drug interactions with arginine."

Bottom Line:
Until further data is available, it is best to avoid taking Viagra
at the same time as L-arginine. Caution would dictate taking L-arginine
at least 2 hours apart from ingesting Viagra. Consult with your
physician for further instruction.

(See http://www.anndeweesallen.com/L-ARGI...0Article-2.htm )

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nice, good post

[MrG]

Originally Posted by tayo

and yeah that would suck to die while huffing a popper right as you had an orgasm... what a way to go out.

I believe it's referred to as "coming and going at the same time".

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I know my rep wont matter but how did no one up you for this?

[tayo]

Originally Posted by MrG

I believe it's referred to as "coming and going at the same time".

Clever boy!!!

[Graduisic]

pretty much the only 'mixer' drug swim enjoys consistently with just about anything is marijuana.

don't mix dissociatives with ANYTHING except for marijuana, or you'll be barfing your brains out or worse... (serotonin syndrome, etc.). although mushrooms + marijuana can create a paranoid hell.

...don't do meth... at all.

swim agrees with not mixing uppers and uppers, but downers and downers such as alprazolam and, for example, clonazepam isn't so bad.

narcotic pain relievers and psychedelic drugs is usually a ticket to puke city. however mixing vicodin/oxy/etc with muscle relaxers or benzodiazepines are quite nice.

Mixing narcotics sends you off into space and swim does not recommend it. swim once took 20mg hydrocodone with 30 insufflated mg of oxy along with two time-released morphine pills with alprazolam and carisoprodol (soma). swim is still alive but man the rebound headache was killer...

Benzodiazepines are good to take once you are coming down from heavy trips that raise blood pressure or cause insomnia

Mixing DXM with Diphenhydramine/Dimenhydrinate (Benadryl/Dramamine) sucks. tripping on diphenhydramine alone sucks.

DXM and sexual activity can lead to severe hypertension

If one is taking SSRI's, be careful and don't dive into taking any form of drug without 'testing' oneselve's reaction to the drug with it in your system. swim has found that even while taking SSRI's, some drugs (DXM for swim) do not cause an overflow of serotonin. maybe it is because swim naturally has a very low level of serotonin in the brain to begin with.

ALL drugs affect ALL people differently, so no matter how much you read and educate yourself about every miniscule detail about the drugs you are taking, there can always be complications with how your body specifically handles them.

by the way any use of the word 'you' or 'your' etc. is a hypothetical you. not directed at anyone.

[maz-manik]

coke does not over run mdma.mdma is alot more powerful.MOST people know that if ever tried in combination.

[Pino]

Originally Posted by maz-manik

coke does not over run mdma.mdma is alot more powerful.MOST people know that if ever tried in combination.

No, no, for swim personally it fucks the xtc high up. Quite badly. I am not sure, what happens, but it isn't positive. And the cocaine doesn't get through really. Maybe that is the problem, the cocaine is weaker than the xtc, so it is a waste to use it. SWIY better take them alone. On they're one, they are fine drugs. Maybe swim isn't like most people, however swims ' friend thinks the same. SWIY shouldn't mix stimulants with stimulants anyway.

[keats]

"but downers and downers such as alprazolam and, for example, clonazepam isn't so bad."

This is absolutely false. Of the three major combinations (uppers/downers uppers/uppers and downers/downers) two downers are probably the worst, as a rule. Of course it depends on the doses and the drugs, but many, many people have died mixing downers. Alcohol+just about anything except marijuana is rarely a good idea, benzos+any other downer (especially alcohol) is a terrible idea, as is benzos+opiates. The problem is you won't know you're ODing until you're dead, it's easy to not even notice you're not breathing until it's too late, or to just drift off to sleep and not wake up. Two benzos together aren't as bad as the above combos, but you can still die from benzos alone, especially if you're combining multiple different ones. SWIM would STRONGLY suggest SWIY stay away from mixing any CNS depressants.

Also hallucinogen+hallucinogen (shrooms and acid, anyone?) are rarely a good idea unless you're super hardcore, and even then...

[Pino]

Originally Posted by keats

Also hallucinogen+hallucinogen (shrooms and acid, anyone?) are rarely a good idea unless you're super hardcore, and even then...

Weed + Passionflower + mushrooms seems to be ok. But passionflower and weed are quite moderate. Another very bad thing to do is certain stimulants + hallucinogens -for example speed and mushrooms, happy tripping - or maybe worse alcohol and hallucinogens..

[Graduisic]

Originally Posted by keats

"but downers and downers such as alprazolam and, for example, clonazepam isn't so bad."

This is absolutely false. Of the three major combinations (uppers/downers uppers/uppers and downers/downers) two downers are probably the worst, as a rule. Of course it depends on the doses and the drugs, but many, many people have died mixing downers. Alcohol+just about anything except marijuana is rarely a good idea, benzos+any other downer (especially alcohol) is a terrible idea, as is benzos+opiates. The problem is you won't know you're ODing until you're dead, it's easy to not even notice you're not breathing until it's too late, or to just drift off to sleep and not wake up. Two benzos together aren't as bad as the above combos, but you can still die from benzos alone, especially if you're combining multiple different ones. SWIM would STRONGLY suggest SWIY stay away from mixing any CNS depressants.

Also hallucinogen+hallucinogen (shrooms and acid, anyone?) are rarely a good idea unless you're super hardcore, and even then...

totally agree with you on the dangers of OD'ing on downers and downers, i meant it in the context of mixing them with a sense of moderation around standard medical dosages.

[GenaroXVIII]

Originally Posted by Graduisic

totally agree with you on the dangers of OD'ing on downers and downers, i meant it in the context of mixing them with a sense of moderation around standard medical dosages.

Im not sure if I understand what that means. By standard medical dosage do you mean taking the recommended non-recreational dose of each substance, or doses that a doctor would actually prescribe to the same person? There are some meds that have known interactions, and a medical proffessional would not prescribe in combination.
I agree with you about moderation.

[Gonzo_Shaman]

Combining MAOI's (Syrian Rue, Passion Flower, Caapi, Yohimbe, several antidepressants, certain Piperazines/Piperazine derivatives, a few types of 2C's) with, well, absolutely everything. Except for DMT. Mild MAOI's to enhance shroom trips won't kill you, but be damn careful. Combining a MAOI with SSRI's, MDA/MDMA, DXM, Ephedrine, etc. *can* kill you.

Another no-no, albeit one based on personal subjective experience, is alcohol and weed.

[200Ponies]

Irresponsible post warning!

SWIM particularly enjoys ketamine + ecstacy + cannabis + alcahol (although the alcahol will appear to have little effect) if he is partying.

SWIM always smokes cannabis and is currently on SSRI's, no obvious harm done yet. Infact SWIM would never consider taking any drug (bar shrooms) without getting stoned first.

Amphetamine + Ketamine is ok, but a bit confusing.

SWIM likes shrooms + cannabis, but it dosn't really seem to make much diffrence if you dont smoke cannabis with shrooms.

SWIM is still alive and dosn't see the real danger of these combinations as he has been doing it this way for years.

[GenaroXVIII]

I think that it should be stated that one should be very careful when taking opiods and alcohol. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that most, if not all opiod painkillers are metabolised by the same liver enzyme as alcohol. This means that liver toxicity is compounded by the combination. Some experienced drug users may use the combination, but I believe that there is a great risk to the novice or uninformed.

opiods + alcohol = liver toxicity

[bcubed]

Originally Posted by GenaroXVIII

I think that it should be stated that one should be very careful when taking opiods and alcohol. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that most, if not all opiod painkillers are metabolised by the same liver enzyme as alcohol. This means that liver toxicity is compounded by the combination. Some experienced drug users may use the combination, but I believe that there is a great risk to the novice or uninformed.

opiods + alcohol = liver toxicity

SWIM isn't sure if the no-no is the opoid per se, or the acetominophen (Tylenol) often contained in tablet-form opies. Can anyone clarify? Of course, there's also the nasty symboitic effect (just ask Janis)...

And "coming and going" AKA "Le grand mort"

EDIT: I'm surprised not yet mentioned, but anyone taking scrpts (let alone mixing for effect) NEEDS a personal PDR or equivalent (they have layman's terms "pocket PDRs" that have what you need). If it saves SWIY's life just once...

[GenaroXVIII]

Originally Posted by bcubed

SWIM isn't sure if the no-no is the opoid per se, or the acetominophen (Tylenol) often contained in tablet-form opies. Can anyone clarify? Of course, there's also the nasty symboitic effect (just ask Janis)...

And "coming and going" AKA "Le grand mort"

I'm not exactly sure either. On tylenol bottles it has the thing about consuming three or more alcoholic beverages per day. But opiate meds have much stronger warnings. But I don't know the exact reaction/mechanism that is dangerous.

[Nagognog2]

Yohimbe, Alcohol, and Marijuana. Unless you like bruised knees. 'Cause you'll be walking on 'em.

[GenaroXVIII]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Yohimbe, Alcohol, and Marijuana. Unless you like bruised knees. 'Cause you'll be walking on 'em.

swim has never considered mixing yohimbe with anything, and now he's curious...care to explain?

[Nagognog2]

I did. You'll hurt your knees. Spastic laughter is another possiblility.

[asplinteredfawn]

SWIM told me to tell you that APAP is toxic above 4 grams and it's even more toxic when mixed w/ ethanol... CWE boys and girls. Don't be a yellow bellied lazy bastard!( Because your abdomen will be...) Extract any anti-inflammatories from your opiates! If not I'm going to have to market a cover up / foundation for all you young female pill poppers pre-teen alcoholics called essence of jaundice. Cos' I've seen so many of you uninformed youthes put almost anything into your mouth. I READ THE LABELS ON FOOD! The least you can do is read the label on your NARCOTICS. Silly kiddies.

[khrma]

Combinations that have been called "good" by books I have dreamed about once or twice:

Cannabis & (Any drug here) --Is there anything you can't smoke on?

DXM & K --Used weed to bring the DXM high up several times; ran out of pot and did several bumps of K 500mg)

DXM & LSD --Again, using weed to progressively potentize the DXM [+00:00] and LSD [+00:50]

SWIM would like to say these are safe for sure, but it really depends on the dose and on your individual body.

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thread is about BAD combos

[asplinteredfawn]

DXM and any serotogenic hallucinogen can have horribly overwhelming effects for some, but SWIM has always enjoyed them together.