Opinions - Alcohol vs Ritalin

[Silverbackman]

Swim is trying to figure out which widley available drug lowers social inhibitions better, has a better euphoria, and more mind expanding. Ritalin is extremly stimulating and I hear that it is far less damaging than cocaine or the amphetamines. In fact I have read that it has the effects of cocaine but only about the same risks as soft stimulants like caffeine and MDMA.

Which substance is better for

1. Euphoria

2. Increased Loss of Inhibitions resulting in super social powers!

3. Which of the two is safer?

4. Which is more mind expanding?

[Silverbackman]

No edit feature eh?

SWIM chose ritalin because SWIM love its stimulating qualities without all the negative toxicity of alcohol. Plus Swim told me that Ritalin is a lot funner at parties and clubs and good amount dosages.

[Silverbackman]

Swim also loves the benzo feel to it since it is a close reletive of cocaine and meth, but a lot safer .

[fnord]

swims an alcoholic but definitely thinks ritalin is the better choice for this question.

[Bajeda]

1. Euphoria

This is extremely hard to qualify and would be different for everyone. Swim doesn't get any euphoria from methylphenidate, just annoying effects like headaches and feeling dazed. He wouldn't say he gets euphoria from alcohol either though.


2. Increased Loss of Inhibitions resulting in super social powers!

First off, if you are looking for a "magic bullet" to cure all your social ills just stop right now. There isn't a substance that can magically heal any problems you may have with interacting in social settings and searching for one will get you into trouble, as if you find something you feel works it will be very easy to get into a pattern of chronic use rationalized by the fact that 'it helps you soclialize' which can lead you down the road to addiction and worsen your social skills while you are sober (because you feel you need the other drug).

Secondly, loss of inhibitions doesn't necessarily mean 'super social powers'. Swim would say MDMA is the drug that got him to be the most social he has ever been in his life. He would say that even after the drug's effects wore off that first time his personality didn't quite come back all the way, that he was a bit more open as a person and that he couldn't really lose this more sociable aspect of his personality that MDMA opened up for him. MDMA doesn't really reduce inhibitions, it works on an entirely different level. Hence, swim would recommend MDMA for people trying to develop their ability for social expression and interaction but would warn that it isn't a magic bullet nor is it a 'maitenance drug'. You don't take it and expect everything to be fine, and you don't take it every single time you go out to help with your social skills.

I think you are going about this the wrong way and really need to reevaluate yourself, what you want to accomplish with this particular quest of yours, and how you should do it. If you have any further questions on this specific matter let me know.


3. Which of the two is safer?

There isn't really a way to answer that. Safety is such an extremely relative and subjective notion it is nearly impossible to quantify, and in this case you really can't at all as the amount of risk depends on your own personal physiology, psychology, how you would use such drugs and how often, etc. etc. These are two very different substances you are asking us to compare and I dont think it is possible in this regard. It depends too much on how the substances are used and we don't know how they will be used because we aren't swiy.


4. Which is more mind expanding?

I am not sure what you mean by that but I would say, based on my own personal definition of 'mind expanding', that neither of them could be considered mind expanding substances.


Also, don't consider MDMA to be a 'soft' stimulant. It still very much has a stimulant side to it and can mess you up if you don't appreciate that fact.



So again, remembering this thread. I would say that swiy is still looking in the wrong place to try and find a 'cure-all' for his problems with social interaction. This thread is comparing two substances that could be discussed, but I don't think the type of polemic comparison you are looking for is appropriate in this instance and may even be dangerous.

To summarize, I don't feel that drugs are the only option available to help swiy and he shouldn't feel that he needs to rely on them.

[Psych0naut]

Originally Posted by Silverbackman

Swim is trying to figure out which widley available drug lowers social inhibitions better, has a better euphoria, and more mind expanding. Ritalin is extremly stimulating and I hear that it is far less damaging than cocaine or the amphetamines. In fact I have read that it has the effects of cocaine but only about the same risks as soft stimulants like caffeine and MDMA.

Which substance is better for

1. Euphoria

2. Increased Loss of Inhibitions resulting in super social powers!

3. Which of the two is safer?

4. Which is more mind expanding?

It is just as damaging, if not even more than cocaine. It has the exact same method of action as cocaine, but more than 4 times as long, so it will be even more damaging if one takes Ritalin's much longer duration in account.

And it just depends on where one lives, on how available Ritalin is, there are plenty of countries where it's very rare.

[eltimmy]

OP: Dose and situation dependent. More thoughts later perhaps.

I do not find them to really be entirely "opposite". In the sense of adrenergic opposing relaxation, but not, say, regarding dopaminergic effects. Alcohol can be quite stimulating in ways. I do not necessarily find them to endow me with "super social powers" (I may feel that way at the time -- oftentime a drunk or a tweaker, or a drunk tweaker especially, just seems like a complete asshole). Safety: Alcohol becomes extremely toxic much more quickly than methylphenidate does when overdosed. It seems easier to overdose on alcohol as well, for various reasons. For instance: culture ... and memory loss. Mind-expansion: In rare situations I have found both extremely useful, and something to be learned from. Yes, I've had some great times drunk, and some great times speeding. More often they have been the opposite of productive, especially when used carelessly. I no longer take serious psychostimulants of any kind, and alcohol (above my daily 1-2 drinks) rarely.

>It is just as damaging, if not even more than cocaine. It has the exact same method of action as cocaine, but more than 4 times as long, so it will be even more damaging if one takes Ritalin's much longer duration in account.

Again, these considerations are dose-dependent. Low, therapeutic dosages of methylphenidate (or coca leaves, for instance) are not entirely comparable to recreational dose thresholds. Please understand that your claims here are like those of the DEA, reflected through a mirror ...

>It has the exact same method of action as cocaine

To some extent. Different affinity for the serotonin transporter, for instance, and I believe norepinephrine (less on both counts for methylphenidate): which would indicate less cardiovascular strain from methylphenidate.

>In fact I have read that it has the effects of cocaine but only about the same risks as soft stimulants like caffeine and MDMA.

But I don't agree with this either. Dose-dependent. At high enough dosages, you're putting your body in an extensively stressed state regardless of your choice stimulant.

[Psych0naut]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

>It is just as damaging, if not even more than cocaine. It has the exact same method of action as cocaine, but more than 4 times as long, so it will be even more damaging if one takes Ritalin's much longer duration in account.

Again, these considerations are dose-dependent. Low, therapeutic dosages of methylphenidate (or coca leaves, for instance) are not entirely comparable to recreational dose thresholds. Please understand that your claims here are like those of the DEA, reflected through a mirror ...

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. I meant that if one would abuse it, taking it in recreational doses they are both as damaging. In the small amounts taken medicaly they do little to no harm, same goes for amphetamines.

Originally Posted by eltimmy

>It has the exact same method of action as cocaine

To some extent. Different affinity for the serotonin transporter, for instance, and I believe norepinephrine (less on both counts for methylphenidate): which would indicate less cardiovascular strain from methylphenidate.

Actually Ritalin's affinity for the serotonine transporter wasn't observed, meaning it doesn't bind to it.
It does however also have a high affinity for the norepinephrine transporter, so the strain on the cardiovascular system is the same. And as already mentioned, Ritalin has a much longer duration, which will cause damage for a longer time than cocaine.