Is Codeine Related To Methadone?

[Changeling]

Methadone?

SWIM has been perscribed Codeine and Vicodin, both of which SWIM has been unable to take, due to the fact that it induces uncontrollable vomiting and nausea. Are these drugs related to Methadone? Will it have a similar effect?

[MrJim]

They are all in the same family of drugs. Opioids. SWIC might have an opioid allergy.

[Swimster]

They are all in the opioid family, although they aren't chemically related.

[opiatewonder98]

codeine is from the opium poppy, methadone is man made.

[kailey_elise]

While an allergy is DEFINITELY possible, someone here wanted me to mention that they get horrible stomach pains from both codeine & hydrocodone, but not from other opioids (including methadone, which was mentioned above).

If it were me, I would ask my doctor to prescribe a different opioid (oxycodone is popular and works well for many people) before I decided on an allergy status. I've heard of too many people who have stomach upset with codeine & hydrocodone to write off opiates completely...

~Kailey Elise

Originally Posted by MrJim

They are all in the same family of drugs. Opioids. SWIC might have an opioid allergy.

[AceOvArts]

SWIM told me to say that if opioids are causing nausea then reduce the dosage. Nausea is a typical reaction to taking opioids, do a search for possible ways of reducing this effect.

[enquirewithin]

Codeine is a poor opiate really. Also, it cannot be IVed.

[Corksil]

If SWIM is correct, morphine is converted to codeine through a chemical process, which is what's in hydroCODONE (Vicodin) and OxyCODONE (OxyContin is the brand name.) Methadone is also an Opioid, though fully synthetic. Morphine is chemically created, or extracted from the poppy plant.

SWIM is curious too, can anyone verify this?

[enquirewithin]

Correct:

....dihydrocodeinone(marketed as Vicodin... is a semi-synthetic opioid derived from two of the naturally occurring opiates, codeine and thebaine.

Codeine is an alkaloid found in opium in concentrations ranging from 0.3 to 3.0 percent. While codeine can be extracted from opium, most codeine is synthesized from morphine through the process of O-methylation.

Methadone is a synthetic originally designed for pain reduction.

Neither codeine or methadone have much recreational potential, however.

[somniferic]

SWIM agrees about the recreational potential of methadone and codeine, only to an extent though.

The whole concept of opioid buzz is, in SWIM's eyes, subjective. A common path for many, although by no means all recreational opioid users, can entail a 'journey' upwards through the spectrum of different kinds.

Codeine is perhaps the most common example, indeed globally, of 'first time' opioid use, not least because it is prescribed by doctors the world over, an excellent analgesic, it is much of humankind's answer to pain, at least mild-to-moderate pain anyway.

This post's intention is by no means an attempt to summarise the psychology of substance misuse, it is merely a reflection of SWIM's opinion about what he knows as one common journey 'through the opioids'.

Picture this: a person who uses drugs recreationally, who may smoke a bit of cannabis regulalrly, even chronically, and whom has also experimented with LSD and maybe ecstacy a few times for example, may remain in that phase, using just those drugs, according to that frequency for a long time.

By this point in that persons drug use, it is not not uncommon for them to be 'on the lookout' so to speak, for other experiences. SWIM is by no means a proponent of the long discredited 'Gateway Theory', for any readers who are worrying that he is about to launch into some nonsensical diatribe about cannabis use creating crackheadjunkydopefiendscumbags out of our innocent youth. Rather, SWIM is suggesting that a current drug user is tuned into the recreational aspect of drugs, both licit and illicit, prescribed and non-prescribed, in a way that a non drug user is usually not.

Incidentally, research suggests (regretfully I have no quote at present, although fortcoming) that inpatients and outpatients with no previous recreational drug use history rarely report feelings of euphoria in relation to opioid consumption.

Anyway, back to the point. Some people enjoy recreational use of even mild opioids like codeine, especially when they first try them. As they progress further up the ladder however, the euphoric feelings associated with codeine are dwarfed. Take heroin for example, SWIM says that after he first experienced his first shot of the brown, most other lesser opioids were viewed as completely inferior.

The route of administration is very important in the subjective experience too. According to SWIM, methadone is highly abuseable, especially in high doses. Also, years ago, SWIM had a steady source for injectable methadone, which he claims is one of the best hits known to man, especially when mixed with the travel sickness drug cyclizine (also known as Valoid), which increases and enhances the rush.

SWIM says that some people can take a long time to 'tune in' to the pleasurable effects of some opioids. Opioids are a bit like 'horses for courses', in the sense that there are times when SWIM would prefer the sledge hammer effects of high-dose morphine, and other times he would prefer the very subtle, long-acting effects of buprenorphine.

Saying that, some SWIY's try opioids and just wonder what all the shouting is about!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good post!
	Excellent wording
	well put

[Gaius315]

Codeine = a naturally accuring alkaloid in opium. Other major alkaloids in opium include morphine and thebaine.

Methadone = is similar in composition and function to opium but is synthesized entirely in the lab, hence the term "synthetic." Some refer to it as "synthetic heroin."

The differences: morphine, codeine, and thebaine are natural chemicals found in opium. oxycodone, hydrocodone, oxymorphone, etc. are SEMI-SYNTHETIC opiates processed primarily from thebaine to produce a cheaper alternative to the naturally occurring ones. They are SEMI-SYNTHETIC because, although they are manufactured in a lab, they use a natural base to produce a more potent synthetic. Methadone is FULLY SYNTHETIC, meaning it does not use any natural opium alkaloids and is thereby cheaper to manufacture.

Opium has been used for a variety of reasons around the world for thousands of years. Around the time of the American Civil War, chemists found a way to extract the morphine from the opium to focus on its extremely potent sedative and pain relieving properties. It was used primarily on wounded soldiers, particularly those that lost limbs in battle. Many of those treated soldiers developed an addiction and continued morphine use for years after their need for it had passed. New discoveries led to alternatives for less-serious cases and cocaine (newly being researched) was often given to morphine-addicted soldiers to help treat their addiction. Codeine was available primarily in cough remedies as it was a much less potent alkaloid than morphine. Like Codeine, Heroin continued use in OTC cough syrups and the like as well as many OTC cocaine remedies until southern plantation owners felt threatened by black workers using cocaine and becoming violent. This forced the government to reevaluate the distribution of cocaine and thus, cocaine became the first medicine to be a controlled substance, dictating that doctors could prescribe cocaine in particular cases but any other use or possession thereof was illegal. This act soon led the government to reevaluate morphine and heroin as well. In the coming decades, with other medical advancements and alternatives underway, cocaine and heroin became nearly extinct in the medical world and morphine remained as a highly controlled substance as it still is. But a need for a potent pain killer/sedative and the unwillingness for doctors to use morphine in non-extreme cases, along with the morphine shortage post-war because of a decline in poppy production, led scientists to seek alternatives.

A method was discovered to turn a formerly non-active opium alkaloid (thebaine) into a potent alternative to morphine. Many more strains of poppy produced thebaine than those that produced morphine and it was much easier and cheaper to come by since it was usually discarded during morphine extraction. Chemists used thebaine to create the synthetics used most dominantly in pain pharmaceuticals today: oxycodone and hydrocodone especially. Methadone was also discovered and they saw great potential in this cheap synthetic to help addicts of the other opiates.

[SpaceCadetGlow]

*Swim gives props to Bidemytime for his explanation of the opioid experience. Awesome bit of writing, you definitely know your stuff.

As for SWIchangeling, swim reccomends he ask his doc to try some of the weaker fully-synthetics. Propoxyphene (brand names Darvocet, Darvon) is relatively comparable to codeine and hydrocodone in effect, and may not cause the nausea as they are chemically completely different. Also, SWIchangeling might like to know that propoxyphene is related to methadone and is one of the few methadone relatives used medically. Other options SWIchangeling might try include Tramadol (brand name Ultram, Ultracet) and Pentazocine (brand name Talwin).

[Orchid_Suspiria]

In some instances swim has found tramadol to be as enjoyable as a true opiate.When swim wants to feel opiated but sort of stimulated at once.Tramadol may help and it may be a wonderful experience at the sametime.