(US WI) Bill would ban sale of salvia Divinorum

[Heretic.Ape.]

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n732/a08.html?1042
BILL WOULD BAN SALE OF HALLUCINOGENIC SALVIA DIVINORUM

A big yellow sign on State Street reads: "Salvia sold here. Get it while you can."

Many who pass by are perplexed. To the middle-aged and older, salvia is a perennial flowering plant found in many local gardens. But a growing number of young people, even middle schoolers, know salvia as an unregulated drug that delivers a powerful high.

Salvia divinorum, related to but different from the backyard salvia, is a perennial herb of the mint family native to the Sierra Mazateca region of Oaxaca, Mexico. It contains a powerful hallucinogen considered by some to be as potent as LSD, according to the Drug Enforcement Administration.

"We're hearing this is the new pot, so we should be aware of it," said Stephanie Barchus, alcohol and drug coordinator at La Follette High School. "Kids always find out about all that stuff before we do."

The DEA says adolescents and young adults are buying the herb to chew, smoke or drink. It's sold at two Downtown Madison shops: Amsterdam, 447 W. Gilman St., and Knuckleheads, 550 State St. And one of many Internet sellers of salvia has a Madison post office box address.

Federal authorities consider salvia a "drug of concern," but it's not outlawed. In Wisconsin, as in other states, that could soon change. Democratic Reps. Sheldon Wasserman and David Cullen of Milwaukee last week began seeking sponsors for a bill that would ban the manufacture and sale of Salvia divinorum for consumption in Wisconsin, with a penalty of up to $10,000.

Authorities and users debate just how dangerous Salvia divinorum can be. It has been blamed for a death in Delaware, but Lindsay White, 22, of Madison, who has bought salvia extract at Amsterdam and Knuckleheads, said she doesn't plan to stop using it even if Wisconsin bans it.

"It is still legal in most places so, whatever, I'll just buy it on the Internet if I can't get it here anymore," White said.

How Widely Used?

Madison Police Officer Lester Moore, a member of the Dane County Narcotics and Gangs Task Force, said his group has received bulletins about salvia from other agencies. But salvia isn't yet on the radar of many local law enforcement officials and parents. It's not considered a party drug because it typically makes users introverted, and its use is not easily identified.

"I have no doubt its being used here," Moore said.

"We're worried about the impact salvia could have on someone driving a vehicle," added Sgt. Gordy Disch of the Dane County Sheriff's Department. "If someone is impaired, we don't know what they're on unless they tell us. If there's a blood test, they only check for what we ask them to test."

At Madison high schools, drug assessments also overlook salvia.

"We ask about alcohol and marijuana specifically because they're so common, but there are too many other drugs out there to ask specifically about salvia during assessments," LaFollette's Barchus said. "It's not showing up on our radar, either, but maybe it's just that we're not asking about it. A lot of kids don't consider it a drug because it's natural and it's legal."

But not everywhere. Four states have banned Salvia divinorum or salvinorin A, the ingredient responsible for the plant's psychoactive effects. In addition, as of January, legislative bills proposing regulatory controls on salvinorin A or Salvia divinorum were pending in Alaska, Illinois, Maine, New Jersey, New York, North Dakota and Virginia.

Internationally, a variety of regulatory controls have been enacted in Australia, Belgium, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Italy, Spain and Sweden.

How Addictive?

Online videos and blogs on salvia describe a wide range of possible experiences among users of the drug, which is also called Diviner's Sage, Sage of the Seers, Magic Mint, Sally D and Maria Pastora.

Some users feel they've merged with another object, or that they're in another time or place. Some think they've found the wisdom of the universe, or they might see giant insects in their heads.

The intensity of intoxication varies because of how salvia is ingested. Smoking dried salvia gives a relatively weak, short-lived high, while drinking a powerful extract is much more intense. Bloggers urge people who plan to go on a full-blown trip to have a "trip sitter" with them so they won't get hurt. At Knuckleheads, first-timer users are advised to use salvia in a safe, calm place, while listening to classical music.

Salvia has not been proven to be toxic or addictive, though its long-term physical and mental effects on humans haven't been studied. Dr. Michael Miller, medical director at Meriter Hospital's NewStart chemical dependency rehab program, strongly disagrees with those who consider salvia a harmless high.

"Salvia is a really fascinating drug because it's not really the same as other hallucinogens like LSD, mescaline or peyote," he said. "It has got to be addictive because it works directly on the chemical pathway to the opiate system of the brain.

"Even the Web sites on salvia that are promoting its use warn that you can't mix this with other chemicals or you could die," Miller said.

"Another problem is that most doctors don't know about salvia; mostly, it's only scientists ( who ) do. So doctors don't know what they're dealing with when there's a problem.

"There is always drug use," Miller said, "but patterns change. Marijuana is down, cocaine is down, it waxes and wanes, but people are always looking for what is being marketed as the new thing. I haven't seen that many people ( at NewStart ) who are using salvia. I think most users are young adults -- high school dropouts without insurance -- so we are missing them."

'New and Different'

Salvia would join the list of banned substances only after a long trip through the legislative process that starts with the introduction of the bill and its referral to an Assembly committees.

"This bill is all about protecting our children," Wasserman said. "I want to stop the Salvia divinorum dealers who are pushing young people to experiment with a potentially dangerous substance."

Word of the proposed ban on salvia sales in Wisconsin has caused buzz at Madison's two State Street purveyors. Matt Behm, who works at Knuckleheads, said one customer plans to hoard salvia before it becomes illegal.

"Dude uses it three times a day, and he wants to buy it in bulk," Behm said. "The government wants to get involved with what people want to do with their own bodies, and I can't understand that."

[schwing]

Ugh.

1. I can't imagine anyone trying to drive while on salvia, nevermind getting into the car in the first place.
2. I didn't know that users were supposed to "drink" extracts. I'll have to tell my neighbor's bunny that he's been using it wrong.
3. I wonder how many doctors had patients come in with problems resulting from salvia use. But I guess it's a good thing that it might be banned because now people won't hurt themselves with it (?)

[JDreaming]

So much confusion and misinformation surrounds this substance in the media... If tinctures really produced a more intense state than smoking, they would be much more popular than they are. Lawmakers should certainly know by now tinctures are for increasing duration of effect at the expense of intensity.

"It has got to be addictive because it works directly on the chemical pathway to the opiate system of the brain.

There is a huge difference between a true opiate and an atypical psychedelic that works as a kappa opioid receptor agonist. Anyone who has smoked salvia at some point, and taken Oxycodone at some point, will tell you the two feel in no way shape or form whatsoever alike.

"Even the Web sites on salvia that are promoting its use warn that you can't mix this with other chemicals or you could die," Miller said.

None of the websites selling salvia or promoting it's use that I have ever visited have ever said anything like this. Salvia is generally considered to have relatively low risks of dangerous or potentially fatal cross-reactions in combination with other drugs and I've never seen evidence of salvia + anything turning salvia into a deadly chemical.

"It is still legal in most places so, whatever, I'll just buy it on the Internet if I can't get it here anymore," White said.

No you won't, White, because the online suppliers I know are smart enough not to send it to states where it has been banned.

[zasabi]

http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/top/i...197608&ntpid=1

"We're hearing this is the new pot, so we should be aware of it," (the new pot HAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!)

"Smoking dried salvia gives a relatively weak, short-lived high, while drinking a powerful extract is much more intense" (tinctures are so much weaker than extract lol)

"We're worried about the impact salvia could have on someone driving a vehicle," added Sgt. Gordy Disch of the Dane County Sheriff's Department. "If someone is impaired, we don't know what they're on unless they tell us. If there's a blood test, they only check for what we ask them to test.'' (ya ok les do salvia and drive thats soooooooooo likely)

"Salvia is a really fascinating drug because it's not really the same as other hallucinogens like LSD, mescaline or peyote,'' he said. "It has got to be addictive because it works directly on the chemical pathway to the opiate system of the brain. (peyote contains mescaline, wow how redundant)

"Even the Web sites on salvia that are promoting its use warn that you can't mix this with other chemicals or you could die," Miller said. (ooooooooook lol)


man those people really need to learn more about the stuff they are so afraid of, that was always the first rule i learned

[Shiacmkmleer]

"Salvia is a really fascinating drug because it's not really the same as other hallucinogens like LSD, mescaline or peyote,'' he said. "It has got to be addictive because it works directly on the chemical pathway to the opiate system of the brain.

Someone needs their MD revoked... Just because something acts on the same path way as opiates do (so to speak) doesn't MAKE it addictive. It depends what it does...

[dezomania90]

SWIM thinks that this herb can't be addictive because of the experience it produces.
SWIM wouldn't want to be stuck in the state it produces no longer then an experience.
SWIM can't imagine living with such effects for more then a short period of a time. Even if it is addictive in any way i dont think SWIM could become addicted because its not a substance i can use daily or multiple times daily and enjoy the experience.

[OccularFantasm]

Yeah, salvia is not addictive at all. The Mu opoid receptor can be addictive, but so far to science, the kappa opoid receptor, which is what salvia divinorum acts on, cannot. Also, you would be surprised how enjoyable salvia can be. It has a cross tolerance so you keep getting more into it and for longer. Also one can adapt very easily to a salvia trip. Simply identify the changes from sober to tripping on salvia. The effects that you notice continue to repeat, simply filter out. Its easy and fun, assuming you don't have any real important responsibilities to tend to. If you have a job or a kid or other such things, it is not reccomended to do anything swim has reccomended, as the effects will linger for a good long while.
Also, salvia should notbe banned. People need to take hjold of the situation and shoot anyone lobbying to make it illegal in cold blood. Its about time we stop being passive here and kill those douchebags. Even if it doesn't work, at the very least, it will make us smile.

[eggman256]

it has helped people with chonic pain and is not addictive.it doesnt have the same effects physically as morphine yet as pain killers go it is as potent.
it doesnt cause breathing problems like morphine
it isn't addictive like morphine
it doesn't cause constipation like morphine
i think medical science could benefit greatly in doing more studies on salvia and all of its properties.
people against the use of salvia should educate theirselves more about it before requesting a ban on it.

alot of first time users have no idea what to expect and have a unpleasent experiance and never want to do it again.
at first it may be a wild beast that is uncontrolable.but that doesn't mean it cant be tamed.
i personally dont think it should be banned.but at the same time i think it should be regulated and that distributers should have to properly label it with warnings and distrubuting it to minors should be illegal and anyone caught giveing or selling it to minors should have to be punished in the same manor as with any drug.young minds are so easily manipulated. and i believe that salvia could permently damage the way a child thinks.
alcoholic beverages in my oppinion are more dangerious than salvia.but this is based on experiances with the lesser potant extracts.15x is as potent as it should be sold in my oppinion. but thats just my oppinion. i have seen sites with 80x on it. that would scare the piss out of me. i really cant imagine how intence that would be.nor do i wish to find out.

[thepieman1]

Even if everything in this report were 100% accurate, which we of course all know not to be the case, in my opinion, it would still not warrant the criminalisation of its users, traders, and studiers.

Salvia needs to be investigated more before it is made illegal and lawmakers really need to know what they are dealing with.

In the mean time, could they not make do with controlling it?

At the moment Salvia is sold as "incense", which is quite plainly not what it is being used for. If the effects of this substance were to be acknowledged, traders of this plant could be truthful about its function, and be able to properly educate those who intend to use it.

[DividedReality]

Their is also a bill that would do the same in Minnesota

http://www.citypages.com/2008-04-09/...-ban-salvia/2/

https://www.revisor.leg.state.mn.us/...9&ssn=0&y=2008

The DEA has known about Salvia for 8 years and has been unable to prove the 8 requirements for a controlled substance, so individual states are making it illegal themselves.
Write to your state reps sooner then later, don't let Salvia become illegal near you!

[fnord]

If you want to help save it please check this thread for a start,besides this you can organize a letter writing campaign with your friends to(intelligently) explain to your lawmakers why salvia should be kept legal. Most states have had an open forum for public coment please remember to use it!

If anyone needs help figuring out who to wrtie to in there state plase PM me and ill do my best to assist you.

[frederico02]

well , unlucky for some . now im not sure how every country's drug laws work but mine ( the uk's ) works on banning the specific compound or active ingrediant . now Salvinorum A , the active compound is found in the common sage plant and possibile other sage plants ... anything with salvia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia could possibily have this compound . so to ban salvia divinourm is to ban the common sage plant ... which will never happen so in order for this plant to be banned they would have to rewrite the UK drug laws... carry on doin this great plant

[Dr. Awesome]

Originally Posted by frederico02

now Salvinorum A , the active compound is found in the common sage plant and possibile other sage plants ... anything with salvia ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia could possibily have this compound . so to ban salvia divinourm is to ban the common sage plant ...

Actually Salvinorin A is only found in Salvia Divinorum, a type of sage found in Mexico and not the common sage. Its leaves and extracts are often called or referred to simply as Salvia, despite the fact that it is actually a specific member of the Salvia genus. So if Salvinorin A were to be outlawed only the Salvia Divinorum plant would be outlawed. I doubt it will be outlawed in the UK anytime soon though, even with the states here that are trying to and have banned it, its still pretty under the radar in most of the country it seems.

"This bill is all about protecting our children," Wasserman said. "I want to stop the Salvia divinorum dealers who are pushing young people to experiment with a potentially dangerous substance."

They always have to throw in the "protect our children" and "dealers pressuring kids to try" crap in there. Even if that happened a lot with drugs, which luckily it doesnt, this statement is ridiculous because there are no "dealers." Its bought from a store. Oh well, maybe I'm wrong, I mean there are all those dealers selling those LSD tattoes that are laced with strychnine to little kids in elementary schools right?

[Salvinorin A]

Actually, these "dealers" do exist.

SWIM still hangs around high schools and always sees these dumb assholes pressuring freshmen into trying salvia, and instead of being responsible sitters, these monkeys just laugh at them.

In that sense it is potentially dangerous. Enough to outlaw it? Absolutely not. However, swim is just pointing out that there are instances like that, and swim is sure that there are way more beyond his own observation.

After all, that's how swim himself was introduced to Salvia, and even now, he hates seeing young kids using it, being scared shitless. SWIM would push for an 18-year-old regulation of Salvia. But that's about it. Because it's honestly these dumb kids that will make it illegal.

Sal-A

[Dr. Awesome]

Yeah I can totally see that. I was thinking along the lines of that stereotypical "dealer" pressuring kids into doing things to get them addicted. I agree with the 18 thing, I know that around here one has to be 19 to at least buy it, as is the case with anything sold in a smoke shop