Equivalent dosages of opiates/opioids

[0utrider]

Hi

heres a table with the equivalent dosages of many common opioids/opiates..



but make sure to have the substance as a base / to know what the substance equals in comparison to a base
im gonna post these values later on
maybe this could be a sticky??

[Orchid_Suspiria]

This table is incomplete and didn't even have some of the doses swim is familiar with but it does have some valueable info.Swim has never heard of piritramid,odd.

[0utrider]

yes its incomplete, as it doesnt contain heroin for example..

what does SWIY mean with "dosis that SWIY is familiar with?"

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Swim thinks this is a European table of some type.The reason it does not contain heroin is swim thinks that it only applies to pharmaceutical opiates and heroin must not be used pharmaceutically in whereever this table originates.

[0utrider]

hihi..
what do you mean by "european table"?
yes its true, it is "european" and was created by me and some friends (or rather by some friends and i also added some infos)
it indeed is mainly about pharmazeutical opioids, as many (like tilidin) are not even available in the us

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Ah swim thought it might be European,that is why swim didn't recognize some of the names or dosages.Swim hasn't heard of Tilidin but if he is reading right it is another name for Nalaxone which swim has heard of.Just when swim thought the world didn't have many more opiates to try.

[0utrider]

no, its not another name for naloxone, as naloxone is an opioid antagonist, so if SWIY has an OD he would prolly get naloxone in order for SWIY not to die. tilidin is often prescribed which is due to the fact that it also has naloxone in it, which becomes active only at higher dosis in order to avoid abuse of tilidin. tilidin is kinda like the "big brother" of tramadol, a little stronger and more euphoric, but doesnt have the neurotoxic effects that tramadol is said to have

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Ah I guess swim was wrong,it was just spelled so closely to our name for Naloxone that swim thought it was.So it's not truly an opiate like Tramadol isn't?Does it have the SSRI properties of Tramadol and the mildly stimulating feel?

[0utrider]

afaik its (chemically) a true opiate, but just doesnt have any effects on you (and it can cause withdrawal symptoms). so if you take (enough) naloxone, the other opiates in your body won't connect to your receptors anymore, since the naloxone does.

Naloxone is a drug used to counter the effects of opioid overdose, for example heroin or morphine overdose. Naloxone is specifically used to counteract life-threatening depression of the central nervous system and respiratory system. It is marketed under various trademarks including Narcan, Nalone, and Narcanti, and has sometimes been mistakenly called "naltrexate." It is not to be confused with Naltrexone, another opioid receptor antagonist with qualitatively different effects.

Naloxone has an extremely high affinity for μ-opioid receptors in the central nervous system. Naloxone is a μ-opioid receptor competitive antagonist, and its rapid blockade of those receptors often produces rapid onset of withdrawal symptoms. Naloxone also has an antagonist action, though with a lower affinity, at κ- and δ-opioid receptors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naloxone

[0utrider]

oh you were talking about tilidin? yes, it doesnt have the SSRI properties (thus its not neurotoxic / cant cause serotonine syndrom) but still the euphoric effects are really strong. its some sort of synthetic opioid, not an opiate.

i found this on the internet

Tilidine is an opioid analgesic that has been abused predominantly by the oral route. Studies of parenterally administered tilidine in animals did not clearly indicate a dependence potential of the morphine type. In this study we examined the abuse potential of orally and parenterally administered tilidine in humans. Both orally and intramuscularly given tilidine produced miosis and morphine-like subjective effects in non-dependent subjects. Oral tilidine was 1/8-1/10 as potent and intramuscular tilidine was 1/22 as potent as parenteral morphine in producing morphine-like subjective and miotic effects. Intramuscular tilidine suppressed and did not precipitate signs of abstinence in morphine-dependent subjects. However, intramuscularly given tilidine produced toxic effects not seen with morphine. Meperidine, codeine and d-propoxyphene produced morphine-like subjective and miotic effects, but also produced toxic effects at the highest doses tested. The results suggest that tilidine has a potential to be abused, that this potential is less than that of parenteral morphine and that tilidine is more likely to be abused orally than by the intramuscular route.

its really common over here, and SWIM really likes it. especially since its not considered a "strong opioid" and thus the withdrawal symptoms are rather low & short.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

No swim wasn't reffering to Naloxone he was talking about tilidin.

[nalbano34]

SWim has only tried fentanyl on a blotter, not tranderdermal. How do you think 300mcg taken with that method would compare to other opiates?

[0utrider]

well transdermal means "through the skin", like with a patch. SWIM can't and dont wants to give any recommendations on fentanyl, since this might be very dangerous. people who use fentanyl on a regular basis should know for themselves..

[Harry]

Originally Posted by nalbano34

SWim has only tried fentanyl on a blotter, not tranderdermal. How do you think 300mcg taken with that method would compare to other opiates?

there is no comparison, relatively. And unless your tolerance is thru the roof...300mcg of fent is a recipe for disaster. Disaster being, dead. Dead as in, doornail.

[nalbano34]

Fentanyl has an LD50 of 3.1 milligrams per kilogram in rats, and, 0.03 milligrams per kilogram in monkeys. The LD50 in humans is not known. SWim does not see 300mcg being deadly, any links to verification of this?

edit: fentanyl citrate is a narcotic analgesic. A dose of 100 mcg (0.1 mg) (2.0 ml) is approximately equivalent in analgesic activity to 10 mg of morphine or 75 mg of meperidine

There are numerous forms of fentanyl, each having it's own individual effect and dosage requirements. SWim would suggest that anyone looking into this be careful as was already mentioned as some can be potentially deadly in very low dosages. That being said, 300mcg of fentanyl citrate is not a "nail in the coffin".

[MrJim]

LD50 - nalbano please read this.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32912
And never use ld50 as any sort of reference point for SWIN`s using. I will not have dead members here, thank you.

[nalbano34]

Originally Posted by MrJim

LD50 - nalbano please read this.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32912
And never use ld50 as any sort of reference point for SWIN`s using. I will not have dead members here, thank you.

Agreed, It is very apparent in the LD50 of rats compared to monkeys that SWim posted earlier, that is a drastic difference. This is just for the integrity of the thread and by no means meant to be used as a guideline for dosing. SWim was just curious is all.

[Harry]

Oral 24-hr Morphine/ Transdermal Fentanyl
(in mg/day) (in mcg/hr)
60–134 25
135–224 50
225–314 75
315–404 100
405–494 125
495–584 150
585–674 175
675–764 200
765–854 225
855–944 250
945–1034 275
1035–1124 300

this is a quick run down in comparison's sake with morhine, vs. transdermal use of fentanyl.

My concern and cautionary post was in your reference to blotter, to which
the elevation of received levels will be greatly increased per/hr...and more so, IMHO, very dangerously.

Don't get me wrong, SWIM sure likes the fent, but has what I believe to be a healthy fear of it.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Added Relevant Information.

[Santa]

I know this is an old thread but that 'equivalency-schedule' can't possibly be right!
I switched from 25 mgs to 300 mgs of tramadol (with three clean days in between) and according to this schedule I'm apparently using even more now than I did before... since it states that 300 mgs tramadol equals 40 mgs of methadone!!!!
I take 100 mgs tramadol 3 times daily and I'm definitely still in withdrawals and I made the switch a little over 2 weeks ago! Sneezing, crawlers, no sleep, stomachproblems... you name it.
I would be feeling perfectly good on 40 mgs of methadone.. hell,, I felt o.k. on 20 mgs.

Come on, if 300 mgs tramadol would really equal 40 mgs of methadone I would be skyhigh now since I didn't even use that much methadone in ages.
At the same time it also states that 300 mgs of tramadol equal 0.8 mg buprenorphine (SL). Which is almost nothing!!! So how on earth is that possible.
I mean 0.8 mgs of bupe equals 40 mgs of methadone????? I'm pretty sure that anyone switching from 40 mgs of methadone to 0.8 mgs of bupe would be in for a real bad treat...
This thing is total bullocks as far as I can tell.

[samuraigecko]

There are a heap of opioid equivalence charts out there. Not many of them agree on equianalgesia. Google for the opiate or opioid equivalence charts and SWIyou will see what SWIM means.

Most of them use Morphine as the standard (E.G: morphine = 1) and then base the MG from there etc.

One will notice a trend looking at these chats. Oxycodone for example can range from 1.5 to 2 times the potency of Morphine depending solely on what chart SWIyou happen to be looking at, even charts from actual medical sites.

Almost none of the charts out there have Heroin on it unless SWIyou find an equianalgesic chart from the UK or Europe which includes diamorphine. (More probably the UK as they use it more prolifically there). And it wont say "Heroin" it will almost always say "diamorphine".

There are also a few charts out there which DO actually say Heroin which are used as comparative dosages for opiate tolerant peoples in medical situations. An example would be when a "gram a day" addict goes into hospital for some reason and they give him some type of pain relief its bound to do almost nothing. There are also some equivalence charts based on Heroin / methadone / buprenorphine for the purposes of determining a WDing addicts dosage for either methadone or buprenorphine. This can then be converted to the other charts.

Hope this has been of help

[Santa]

Thanks..the problem is that Swim can't seem to find much charts that include tramadol and this one simply can't be for real since Swim is really withdrawling.... She wouldn't be if she were taking twice as much as before... ;-) + Swim know heaps of people that say tramadol won't even touch them because it's really quite weak for an opiate-tolerant person.. (in a low dose that is and high doses are not advisable due to the seizurerisks).

[0utrider]

well, addiction and simply the cure of pain is a different thing, many people report that 150-200mgs tramadol do a lot more for them than 20mgs metha, i guess you can not go from the painkilling equivalent to addiction and the different pharmacology of these substances. tramadol has not the same receptor activity and the mu-receptor is not even nearly as well agonised

SWIM found this

Again from personal experience (I did it) it worked for me.. I was on 80 mgs of methadone I was in about day 4 of no methadone and only 3 trams took away my w/ds COMPLETELY. but;
I dont know if it could be used as a maintenance. I do know that it can help you ALLOT if you want to stop on the methadone it can make the w/d almost non existent.. (in my case it did)

But to maintain on it. I just don't know. To just simply get off the methadone yes. But what would you do after?? Do you just want to take tram for pain?
Like I said I know it would help you get off methadone but after that I dont know what good it will be except that if you dont take it for any length of time the w/d is no where near as long as methadone w/d.

. adding up to this is, that tramadol in this high dosages can cause seizures and other problems, under certain circumstances even life-threatening. SWIY wants to get a little more info on that. in SWIMs opinion codeine would be a better choice and then going from codeine to tramal, but due to the ceiling effect of codeine his will also not be too easy (get infos about opioid potentiators as this might help also)
SWIM will send a link with a bunch of infos so you can go on reading, but SWIM has to say that in his opinion, even though as statet before there is a variation, the chart is pretty useful as a rough comparision for painkilling, but one also has to be aware of different pharmacology and individual differences.

[davestate]

Just a small note, heroin is used for pain relief in the UK, known as diamorphine. Used in cases such as burns victims with a large %age of their body burned.

[0utrider]

true, but the source i got that from was in "old europe" and for pain-relief, not abuse, thus not containing DAM

[samuraigecko]

3,6DAM, diamorphine, diacetylmorphine.
Molecular positions 3 + 6 dual acetylated morphine.

(acetylated at the free hydroxyl groups at positions 3 and 6 etc etc yawn all been said before . . heh)

It was mentioned, as was how to find the conversion, in ones post above.

Hope this has helped.