Crack’s bad reputation

[grandbaby]

“Crackhead” is an embarrassing line item to have on a résumé. If meth tweakers had not come along and made a grab for the crown — meth makes you crazy and toothless — crackheads would be at the bottom of the junkie org chart. In the beginning, smokable cocaine fills you with childlike wonder, a feeling that the carnival had come to town and chosen your cranium as the venue for its next show. There is only one thing that appeals after a hit of crack, and it is not a brisk walk around the block to clear one’s head. Most people who sample it get a sense of its lurid ambush and walk away

(from http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/20/ma...in&oref=slogin)

[ai]

cocaine is a hellofa drug.

[beena]

The weird thing is its not just that crack has a reputation for being a dirty drug (although of course SWIM has heard many times people calling another person 'crackhead' as an insult), but when SWIM has smoked crack and left the pipe she's been smoking on out at the end of the night, when she gets up the next morning and sees it there (a plastic bottle half-full of dirty water, the inside cloaked in a fine layer of ash, etc) she sometimes really does shudder for real and feel dirty. It is dirty...everything about it....even the buzz - it's not a 'clean' buzz like you might get from takin ex for example. It feels dirty...I dunno...does that make sense to anyone?? SWIM can't put it into words properly but maybe some of SWIY's who smoke might know what SWIM means...perhaps. It's a dirty buzz, the equipment you use is 'dirty' afterwards (unless you use a proper pipe I guess), the air afterwards is heavy with 'dirty' crack smoke.....yet crackheads themselves aren't necessarily 'dirty'. For example SWIM always looked after herself and her appearance all the time she was smoking crack....it was only when heroin came into the picture that SWIM let herself go for a while....that shit makes people really not give a shit about anything (their family, friends, health, their appearance, etc), anything except getting more of the stuff....And SWIM has friends that are 'crackheads' I suppose, who never touch heroin and those people really look down on heroin addicts. It's so dumb really, but crackheads think they're a class above heroin addicts...go figure.

[Burnt]

crack deserves its bad rap. of course someone can use it safely and probably many people who do use it aren't your typical crackhead but ill still fuck with and joke about how fucking dumb and annoying crackheads are. ive been robbed numerous times by stupid people who were most likely crack heads. ive seen so many friends and relatives be destroyed by crack and cocaine and all the dumb shit the've done because of it that i have no sympathy for people who fall into its trap. if you smoke crack a lot and your addicted your a crack head plain and simple and you deserve to get made fun of.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Burnt

crack deserves its bad rap. of course someone can use it safely and probably many people who do use it aren't your typical crackhead but ill still fuck with and joke about how fucking dumb and annoying crackheads are. ive been robbed numerous times by stupid people who were most likely crack heads. ive seen so many friends and relatives be destroyed by crack and cocaine and all the dumb shit the've done because of it that i have no sympathy for people who fall into its trap. if you smoke crack a lot and your addicted your a crack head plain and simple and you deserve to get made fun of.

i dont necessary agree with all of that....would your theory still apply if you started drinking and was made fun of cuz you couldn't stop and were an alcoholic? what about if you smoked weed all the time? just cuz crack is considered a harder drug than say weed doesn't mean someone can't fall into crack addiction and not be able to stop all by themselves and since they can't, they deserve to be made fun of

[beena]

Originally Posted by Burnt

crack deserves its bad rap. of course someone can use it safely and probably many people who do use it aren't your typical crackhead but ill still fuck with and joke about how fucking dumb and annoying crackheads are. ive been robbed numerous times by stupid people who were most likely crack heads. ive seen so many friends and relatives be destroyed by crack and cocaine and all the dumb shit the've done because of it that i have no sympathy for people who fall into its trap. if you smoke crack a lot and your addicted your a crack head plain and simple and you deserve to get made fun of.

SWIM says 'screw you' - why does someone with an addiction deserve to be made fun of? Why don't you have a long hard thing about the reason some of us 'dumb crackheads' get involved in that kinda shit in the first place....has it never occurred to you that some people get stuck in a rut...caught up in difficult life situations that they just wanna escape from and seek refuge by self-medicating??? SWIM self-medicates cos she has had mental health problems for 10 years and has been repeatedly let down my the system. SWIM ain't no 'stupid crackhead' as you put it: SWIM has a degree in politics and is half way through a postgraduate degree in professional writing but SWIM was diagnosed with a nervous disorder in 2002 and suffers with long-term clinical depression and self-harm issues. Meanwhile SWIM's boyfriend (another dumb crackhead in your eyes I suppose), was in the care system at the age of two years old, suffered serious physical abuse (for which he recently got an out of court settlement for) and has epileptic fits on almost a daily basis. Yeah, but you go ahead and take the piss out of him, if it makes you feel like a big man....

[JaWill88]

swim is glad this was brought up because swim has been smoking crack/shooting coke for like a good 4 years now (although not too much anymore) and all the time he has always called people crackheads just for doing certain behaviors, even people who have never done it. and swim personally knows being known as a "crackhead" is a bad rep. swim did a lot of drugs at the beginning of highschool and was often called a crachead even before he actually did cocaine. it was annoying.

[Burnt]

you know what grow the fuck up. if you smoke crack to solve your problems guess what youll wind up with more problems. and no i dont feel bad for people who fuck over there whole life from doing drugs. ive tried all the same shit and you know what i knew when to stop. if you want to sit around whining oh its a disease you know what youll never get better. get over youself realize life isnt that bad there are plenty of people in way worse situations then you and they dont resort to crack or cocaine or whatever other shit to get over there problems.

its pathetic the way some people look at there drug problems. i look at it all the same no matter what drug you are doing whether its booze weed or crack if its fucking up your life stop. its that simple. you do drugs by your own free will. yes your body craves it but you are the one making the choice and the consequences are yours and you and your family will be the ones suffering when you make the stupid decision to smoke another bag of crack and another and another and another.

and yea ill still make fun of you for smoking crack. because to me its a dumb ass choice no one made you smoke that pipe. only yourself.

would you prefer it if i called you a "freebased cocaine smoker" is that more politically correct? get real and get the fuck over youself

Reputation Comments on this post:

Woah, flame much?

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Burnt

you know what grow the fuck up. if you smoke crack to solve your problems guess what youll wind up with more problems. and no i dont feel bad for people who fuck over there whole life from doing drugs. ive tried all the same shit and you know what i knew when to stop. if you want to sit around whining oh its a disease you know what youll never get better. get over youself realize life isnt that bad there are plenty of people in way worse situations then you and they dont resort to crack or cocaine or whatever other shit to get over there problems.

its pathetic the way some people look at there drug problems. i look at it all the same no matter what drug you are doing whether its booze weed or crack if its fucking up your life stop. its that simple. you do drugs by your own free will. yes your body craves it but you are the one making the choice and the consequences are yours and you and your family will be the ones suffering when you make the stupid decision to smoke another bag of crack and another and another and another.

and yea ill still make fun of you for smoking crack. because to me its a dumb ass choice no one made you smoke that pipe. only yourself.

would you prefer it if i called you a "freebased cocaine smoker" is that more politically correct? get real and get the fuck over youself

so im assuming that since this is DF, that SWIY must partake in some drug taking....since you do drugs, can i go ahead and make the assumption that SWIY is a drug addict, a junkie that is hooked on any drug they can get their hands on since all the drugs are the same to SWIY?

while yes it is a choice to smoke crack, weed, or whatever, some drugs are more addictive than others and both phsycially and psycholically more addicting than say weed

and yes congrats to SWIY for not having a problem with drugs or alcohol but that isn't the case for the millions and millions of people worldwide....some people have addictive personalities and some don't....SWIM is just glad that SWIY hasn't had to go through the hardship of drug addiction that has caused so much chaos in SWIM's life\

[Burnt]

your right will that some people are more hard wired then others to get addicted to these things. and you know want to know why SWIM hasnt gone through the hardship of drug addiction? because SWIM never did excessive amounts of hard drugs. its that straight forward. maybe SWIY couldnt stop but ultamitely its SWIY who makes the decision to shoot or smoke up. thats the difference. SWIM doesnt want a life of drug addiction SWIM finds other things in life pleasurable that doesnt mean SWIY cant enjoy life either. people need to accept that their drug addiction is their fault and then they can begin to make amends and get over it.

the reason i got so upset with this conversation is ive been the friend or family member of people going through drug addiction so hearing people try to justify their use makes me sick. if someone wants to do drugs and piss away their life and doesnt ever try to get help thats there problem but realize it does effect those around who love them. some people dont have anyone to care for and you know what if they need a hand ill be willing to help out but only if that person is serious about it. i used to hook up the homeless guys in my neighborhood with all the beer cans from parties my friends and neighbors would have just to help the poor guys out. give them something to do. i knew they were probably blowing the money on booze or drugs but at least they were decent enough to make an attempt. unlike the scum bags who used to rob my car every few months. i could go on with stories about the shit drug addiction leads to but most of us here already know so its pointless.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by Burnt

your right will that some people are more hard wired then others to get addicted to these things. and you know want to know why SWIM hasnt gone through the hardship of drug addiction? because SWIM never did excessive amounts of hard drugs. its that straight forward. maybe SWIY couldnt stop but ultamitely its SWIY who makes the decision to shoot or smoke up. thats the difference. SWIM doesnt want a life of drug addiction SWIM finds other things in life pleasurable that doesnt mean SWIY cant enjoy life either. people need to accept that their drug addiction is their fault and then they can begin to make amends and get over it.

the reason i got so upset with this conversation is ive been the friend or family member of people going through drug addiction so hearing people try to justify their use makes me sick. if someone wants to do drugs and piss away their life and doesnt ever try to get help thats there problem but realize it does effect those around who love them. some people dont have anyone to care for and you know what if they need a hand ill be willing to help out but only if that person is serious about it. i used to hook up the homeless guys in my neighborhood with all the beer cans from parties my friends and neighbors would have just to help the poor guys out. give them something to do. i knew they were probably blowing the money on booze or drugs but at least they were decent enough to make an attempt. unlike the scum bags who used to rob my car every few months. i could go on with stories about the shit drug addiction leads to but most of us here already know so its pointless.

SWIM agrees with SWIY for the most part....it all comes down to whether an addict is sincere about stopping there use....a lot of people in treatment centers and such are there because of DUI, trying to avoid jail time, etc so until they have reached enough negative consequences that they no longer want to use, most likely they won't stop....that's what happened with SWIM and now SWIM is clean for almost 4 months now

[Burnt]

yea and SWIM doesn't mean to be hard on people cause SWIM understands how drug addiction works and the pure shit it can cause people the users the families and communities. but sometimes people need to be told straight up what the consequences are thats why i went into the rant above. when someone sais cracks (or cocaine) is not that bad, no it is that bad. sure people can dabble and move on but often it is very likely that it will turn out to be that bad the more one uses. people need to be aware of the consequences of drug addiction. and yea the stereotypes are often misguided all drug users have to deal with some kind of stereotype and crackheads get it hard but there is a reason behind it. and SWIM doesn't mean to insult anyone here for being an addict and SWIM hopes for the best for everyone but sometimes people need to be smacked around a bit.

SWIM says 'screw you' - why does someone with an addiction deserve to be made fun of? Why don't you have a long hard thing about the reason some of us 'dumb crackheads' get involved in that kinda shit in the first place....has it never occurred to you that some people get stuck in a rut...caught up in difficult life situations that they just wanna escape from and seek refuge by self-medicating??? SWIM self-medicates cos she has had mental health problems for 10 years and has been repeatedly let down my the system. SWIM ain't no 'stupid crackhead' as you put it: SWIM has a degree in politics and is half way through a postgraduate degree in professional writing but SWIM was diagnosed with a nervous disorder in 2002 and suffers with long-term clinical depression and self-harm issues. Meanwhile SWIM's boyfriend (another dumb crackhead in your eyes I suppose), was in the care system at the age of two years old, suffered serious physical abuse (for which he recently got an out of court settlement for) and has epileptic fits on almost a daily basis. Yeah, but you go ahead and take the piss out of him, if it makes you feel like a big man....

listen bean i didn't mean to sound so insulting and no addiction is not funny. but sometimes people do stupid things and although its not really funny it is kinda funny. you have to look at it lightly sometimes so sorry if SWIM isn't going to listen to people whine about being called a crackhead everyone deals with stereotypes. SWIM is sorry to hear about SWIYs and SWIYs boyfriends difficult situation but SWIY needs to realize that smoking crack to solve your problems is a stupid decision. i wasn't not saying thats SWIYs are "just stupid crackheads" but rather SWIYs decision making is rather poor and will only complicate SWIYs life more. and SWIM isn't here to "take the piss out of anyone" to make SWIM feel like a big man SWIM is not that kind of person. SWIM would rather help people and if SWIM goes on a rant realize its only because SWIM hates to see people flushing their life away.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great points in post

[chillinwill]

thanks burnt....crack is considered one of the harder drugs and SWIM fully believes that anyone participating in any drug use should know both the positive and negative effects and consequences their drug use could have...SWIM used to spend lots of time trying to educate people about the problems of drugs by working in a non profit sober living facility and is glad that someone else feels the same way that SWIM does

[beena]

[quote=Burnt)

listen bean i didn't mean to sound so insulting and no addiction is not funny. but sometimes people do stupid things and although its not really funny it is kinda funny. you have to look at it lightly sometimes so sorry if SWIM isn't going to listen to people whine about being called a crackhead everyone deals with stereotypes. SWIM is sorry to hear about SWIYs and SWIYs boyfriends difficult situation but SWIY needs to realize that smoking crack to solve your problems is a stupid decision. i wasn't not saying thats SWIYs are "just stupid crackheads" but rather SWIYs decision making is rather poor and will only complicate SWIYs life more. and SWIM isn't here to "take the piss out of anyone" to make SWIM feel like a big man SWIM is not that kind of person. SWIM would rather help people and if SWIM goes on a rant realize its only because SWIM hates to see people flushing their life away.[/quote]

lol...ok, maybe SWIM over-reacted a bit, cos the truth is SWIM and her boyfriend do make jokes about crackheads too....but maybe we see it as being a bit more acceptable cos it's our own problems that we're taking the piss out of...and of course SWIM has made some bloody poor decisions to get to the point where she is struggling to quit an eight-year cocaine habit (btw SWIM and her boyfriend are both in treatment and trying to quit), I just think you have to have some understanding that people who use hard drugs often get involved with them in the first place cos they have troubled pasts or are presently living in difficult circumstances. Of course nobody would do drugs if they weren't enjoying them though so there comes a point where you have to take responsibility for your life and the mistakes you make or have made (that is usually the point when addicts begin to turn their lives around in my opinion).
The other point SWIM was trying to make, but probably failed in making, and ended up sounding like she was ranting angrily instead(apologies Burnt), was that addicts can be intelligent, don't all have to be criminals and aren't all 'dirty' junkies that can't look after themselves....Other than that SWIM thinks everyone is entitled to their opinions including Burnt and this SWIMMER doesn't want to get into slagging matches with any other SWIMMERS (lol) and reccomends that no-one else does either....let's keep this forum friendly, after all it'd be a pretty poor excuse for a forum if we all thought the same and had the same ideas about everything....ok?

[vantranist]

Originally Posted by Burnt

your right will that some people are more hard wired then others to get addicted to these things. and you know want to know why SWIM hasnt gone through the hardship of drug addiction? because SWIM never did excessive amounts of hard drugs. its that straight forward. maybe SWIY couldnt stop but ultamitely its SWIY who makes the decision to shoot or smoke up. thats the difference. SWIM doesnt want a life of drug addiction SWIM finds other things in life pleasurable that doesnt mean SWIY cant enjoy life either. people need to accept that their drug addiction is their fault and then they can begin to make amends and get over it.

the reason i got so upset with this conversation is ive been the friend or family member of people going through drug addiction so hearing people try to justify their use makes me sick. if someone wants to do drugs and piss away their life and doesnt ever try to get help thats there problem but realize it does effect those around who love them. some people dont have anyone to care for and you know what if they need a hand ill be willing to help out but only if that person is serious about it. i used to hook up the homeless guys in my neighborhood with all the beer cans from parties my friends and neighbors would have just to help the poor guys out. give them something to do. i knew they were probably blowing the money on booze or drugs but at least they were decent enough to make an attempt. unlike the scum bags who used to rob my car every few months. i could go on with stories about the shit drug addiction leads to but most of us here already know so its pointless.

lol you make me sick...

I don't care if u have done all the drugs in the world, everyone is different period.
your Bullshit opinions tell me one thing you have never done cocaine or meth in ur life.

You cant judge people, im glad you're happy in your life, but who the fuck are you too tell me i can be happy too? U can't... I couldn't even finish reading ur post it was 2 painfull.

ur so wrong... so fucken wrong It makes me sad too think theres still people who think the way you do.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE HALF OF IT. I actually typed like a full page resonse too this but my computer got shut off and i lost everything, im not about 2 type it again.

Just take my word on it, you're views are twisted and not even accepted by any crazy hack out there...

You can go ask a professional if You don't belive me, they will simply tell you these drugs don't work like that, WHATS WRONG AND RIGHT MEANS LESS THAN NOTHING TO A MIND ON METH OR COCAINE. Please just rethink ur post, however judging by the extream closed mindedness i can tell you wont even think about it.

METH ruined my life before i even tried it, cocaine too, took a baby sister from me in my moms womb, and left a little brother in a foster home. I STILL DONT HATE drug addicts even after the same drug destroyed my life directly. The most important thing to know about cocaine and meth is whats right for you doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. all you lost was a damn stereo to 'suspected' drug addicts and you even fucken hate them for no good reason.

care to debate more u can just ask, but im not in the mood too type another 2 page thing.

And btw Cocaine is purely psychological addiction the physical withdrawl (if any) is very mild. Psychological addiction can occur after first time use.

its also no ones fault, u cant judge them, some people live everyday as if they are already dead, they have nothing to live for YOU CANT FUCKEN BLAME THEM FOR WANTED TO FEEL ALIVE EVERYNOW AND THEN CAN U? no you can't because u get to feel alive naturally, some people cant do that with all the consoling in the world and many don't respond to ssri's which are terrible drugs anyways but if you have too you have too. I am glad u are a happy person, and thats also my reason for telling you, you don't have any fucken clue man, really.

vantranist added 210 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by chillinwill

thanks burnt....crack is considered one of the harder drugs and SWIM fully believes that anyone participating in any drug use should know both the positive and negative effects and consequences their drug use could have...SWIM used to spend lots of time trying to educate people about the problems of drugs by working in a non profit sober living facility and is glad that someone else feels the same way that SWIM does

lol man trust me, cocaine addicts and meth addicts know a lot more than you do about how bad these drugs are, lol you think they go around everyday doing meth because they simply don't know its bad for them?

No bud, its just when ur on meth or cocaine nothing matters anymore besides staying high. You could never ever understand unless you have done it, not 1 doctor no matter how smart in this world can truly understand addiction with these drugs unless he has done it himself, THE ONLY ones who know are those who have done it.

Sorry the addicts are the only ones who can understand such an evil, and no true evil can exist without pleasure also being present.

[BuffaloBoobs]

Originally Posted by vantranist

lol you make me sick...
... I couldn't even finish reading ur post it was 2 painfull...
...Just take my word on it, you're views are twisted and not even accepted by any crazy hack out there...

To not read the full opinion of another and then to turn around saying they should listen to you without heed certainly does not progress this discussion in any way. Nor does disrespect and flaming of other DF members.
Burnt's words can sound harsh, especially out of the context of the rest of his post, but he does so because he has seen the damage of these hard drugs. It's true--sometimes people do need to be told straight up about shit. Being nice and pussyfooting around the real issue at hand is not always beneficial to an addict. Addiction can be truly blinding.

[chillinwill]

Originally Posted by vantranist

lol you make me sick...

I don't care if u have done all the drugs in the world, everyone is different period.
your Bullshit opinions tell me one thing you have never done cocaine or meth in ur life.

You cant judge people, im glad you're happy in your life, but who the fuck are you too tell me i can be happy too? U can't... I couldn't even finish reading ur post it was 2 painfull.

ur so wrong... so fucken wrong It makes me sad too think theres still people who think the way you do.

YOU DON'T KNOW THE HALF OF IT. I actually typed like a full page resonse too this but my computer got shut off and i lost everything, im not about 2 type it again.

Just take my word on it, you're views are twisted and not even accepted by any crazy hack out there...

You can go ask a professional if You don't belive me, they will simply tell you these drugs don't work like that, WHATS WRONG AND RIGHT MEANS LESS THAN NOTHING TO A MIND ON METH OR COCAINE. Please just rethink ur post, however judging by the extream closed mindedness i can tell you wont even think about it.

METH ruined my life before i even tried it, cocaine too, took a baby sister from me in my moms womb, and left a little brother in a foster home. I STILL DONT HATE drug addicts even after the same drug destroyed my life directly. The most important thing to know about cocaine and meth is whats right for you doesn't mean a damn thing anymore. all you lost was a damn stereo to 'suspected' drug addicts and you even fucken hate them for no good reason.

care to debate more u can just ask, but im not in the mood too type another 2 page thing.

And btw Cocaine is purely psychological addiction the physical withdrawl (if any) is very mild. Psychological addiction can occur after first time use.

its also no ones fault, u cant judge them, some people live everyday as if they are already dead, they have nothing to live for YOU CANT FUCKEN BLAME THEM FOR WANTED TO FEEL ALIVE EVERYNOW AND THEN CAN U? no you can't because u get to feel alive naturally, some people cant do that with all the consoling in the world and many don't respond to ssri's which are terrible drugs anyways but if you have too you have too. I am glad u are a happy person, and thats also my reason for telling you, you don't have any fucken clue man, really.

vantranist added 210 Minutes and 52 Seconds later...



lol man trust me, cocaine addicts and meth addicts know a lot more than you do about how bad these drugs are, lol you think they go around everyday doing meth because they simply don't know its bad for them?

No bud, its just when ur on meth or cocaine nothing matters anymore besides staying high. You could never ever understand unless you have done it, not 1 doctor no matter how smart in this world can truly understand addiction with these drugs unless he has done it himself, THE ONLY ones who know are those who have done it.

Sorry the addicts are the only ones who can understand such an evil, and no true evil can exist without pleasure also being present.

ummm sorry buddy....SWIM was a heroin addict for over 6 years and was a meth addict for about 7 months and shot up crack for a couple of months so SWIM knows exactly the feeling of the high consuming everything in one's life....anyways SWIM hates to argue about something so petty as whether one high is better than the other....SWIM's goal is to help other addicts and help people still using to learn harm reduction and answer any other questions one might have

[vantranist]

did u read my post?

well if u were an addict you understand.
lol did i ever argue about what high was better? what are u talking about man?

"cocaine addicts and meth addicts know a lot more than you do"
Obvously if you were a meth addict u would know too, i clearly made that point. you really didn't specify that u were. my mistake.

I made sure i was clear throughout my post that both drugs were equally bad... even tho meth is prob worse in the long run... without a doubt actually.

heh SWIM started meth when he was about 16, been off and on and still use, i am now 20 im sure you know what its like but so Does swim.

and you don't agree that whats right and wrong for you isnt really a concern when ur on speed/coke? I know A LOT of people do.

vantranist added 11 Minutes and 43 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by BuffaloBoobs

To not read the full opinion of another and then to turn around saying they should listen to you without heed certainly does not progress this discussion in any way. Nor does disrespect and flaming of other DF members.
Burnt's words can sound harsh, especially out of the context of the rest of his post, but he does so because he has seen the damage of these hard drugs. It's true--sometimes people do need to be told straight up about shit. Being nice and pussyfooting around the real issue at hand is not always beneficial to an addict. Addiction can be truly blinding.

I did read his post... i said i didnt because at the time of righting that first sentence i didn't feel like it, but i couldent help myself so i read it all more than once by the time i finished my response. sorry for the mix up.

If you believe his views on addiction and how "hearing people try to justify their use makes me sick"

and if u agree with him here

"if someone wants to do drugs and piss away their life and doesnt ever try to get help thats there problem"

theres something wrong with you?

Jesus, im actually being attacked and you guys are actually agreeing with him on the disgusting shit he said?

Ya i have a lot of exprierence too, did you read my post at all?

ive lost more people to meth/cocaine than u know.
just in my immediate family

Mother:meth
dad:coke
Brother: sent to foster home because meth mom couldn't take care of him or didn't want too
little sister died in her womb from meth, sparking a child service investigation that nearly had me taken from my dad

(thank god she didn't even live with us)

So think about it again.

vantranist added 7 Minutes and 18 Seconds later...

Originally Posted by BuffaloBoobs

To not read the full opinion of another and then to turn around saying they should listen to you without heed certainly does not progress this discussion in any way. Nor does disrespect and flaming of other DF members.
Burnt's words can sound harsh, especially out of the context of the rest of his post, but he does so because he has seen the damage of these hard drugs. It's true--sometimes people do need to be told straight up about shit. Being nice and pussyfooting around the real issue at hand is not always beneficial to an addict. Addiction can be truly blinding.

Ya because what he said wassent at all just as bad a flame? Oh... but hes seen the damage so he can have these outbursts?

well so have i So i think i can flame Him (i thought i was some what respectful but w.e) when he said that stupid shit.

I did say some thing out of anger that might not be true about him but i think we both out of line, i didnt mean any harm by it, but look at his post.

[Burnt]

you can flame SWIM all you want SWIM really don't mind. anyway i am sorry vantranist found my post offending also. all i really was reacting to is that people were saying "crack is not that bad" and was trying to make a point that it is that bad and that while on crack (or any drug!) people do stupid things that are sometimes kinda funny. and yes if your an addict its not funny to you so i was trying to make a distinction between joking around and serious insults.

SWIMs done all the same drugs heroin cocaine all that shit. SWIM tried meth but never got much off it so doesn't really consider it a typical experience. SWIM never got addicted because SWIM knew when to stop. cocaine is nice rush but also a hard shitty come down. heroin is a nice buzz but the physical addiction is not worth it. no one can be high forever and if you try you will either die or ruin your life. if SWIY seriously thinks these drugs are worth all the consequences then please make SWIY case.

yes some peoples brains are more hardwired for addictive personalities but we all have a somewhat similar brain and everyone who takes these substances feels the urge to do more its just a natural response in the brain to take something that makes it feel good. the difference between an addict and a non addict is being able to stop. thats the only real difference. being able to stop really comes down to self control. you can make more excuses to keep using but thats the god honest truth and if you can't accept it youll never quit.

life deals people (all people from all walks of life) shitty hands all the time and the quality of ones life will depend on how you deal with that.

i see the point that SWIY can't make the distinction between right and wrong when your high but that to me is bullshit. SWIM has been just as high as SWIY but the difference is SWIM didn't use his brains desire for more drugs as an excuse to go stealing lieing or cheating. no matter how high you are you can just stop and deal with the come down and the side effects. if you say you cant thats only because you think you cant (or dont want too because you like it so much). everyone can. you can say "you dont understand blahb lah blah" but SWIM does understand. just because SWIM knew when to stop and was able to use drugs and still live a good life and because SWIY wasn't doesn't mean SWIM doesn't understand how drugs work. get it?

now im sorry to hear your parents were drug addicts but shouldn't that make it more clear why these things suck and can fuck up lives big time?! SWIMs family and friends have been through hell and some are still going through it because of drug addiction so dont say that i dont understand the dark side of drug use just because i never became an addict. im not trying to judge SWIY saying if i can have a good life so can SWIY but the truth is life can always get better no matter how shitty someones situation is. it can get worse too its often up to the individual to see this.

im not intending to flame anyone or offend anyone but all i really said was that doing hard drugs is stupid. also i totally didnt mean to say that people who do hard drugs are stupid (in response to bean, by the way good luck with treatment hope it works out) people because that is a very close minded statement. but doing them often is a stupid choice and if you want to debate that issue please by all means.

i dont hate drug addicts at all either. despite being robbed and fucked around by them. SWIM understands the people who robbed SWIM were desperate and SWIM doesn't really give a fuck about his stupid stereo. But also using the "i need to be high all the time and i cant tell the difference between right and wrong" is a bullshit excuse. if your desperate and need food its a completely different story but if your desperate and need to get high no fucking excuses and thats the way it is. SWIM has lots of people who SWIM loves dearly who are or were drug addicts so thats not true either.

anyway im glad most people werent too offended by whats been said and am glad we can bring these issues out into the open and just talk about it because i think its important for people to understand the consequences of hard drug use.

[Benga]

could we please tone it down a bit here people, and get back to a more constructive exchange level.
thanks

b

[beena]

Burnt....SWIM can't speak for Vantranist of course but the reason SWIM took offence before was just because she thought your reponse was a bit flippant but SWIM realises she herself was probably being a bit touchy and over-sensitive about the whole issue....SWIM guesses that it is an issue that people who are affected personally by (inluding SWIBURNT), have strong opinions (and differences of opinions about). In response to SWIY's comment about self-control, SWIM would say that an addict is basically someone who has crossed that line and no longer has control over their situation.....it could be different for different people...the same as what one persons 'rock bottom' is (the point when a person realises they can't go on living the way they have been and decide to seek help) differs from person to person. Personally speaking as an addict SWIM has been ripped off, stolen from, fucked about, cheated and even beaten up by other addicts too. SWIM knows right from wrong though and although SWIM has also done some things she is not proud of she can honestly say (hand on heart), that she has never stolen anything, ripped anyone off or knowingly treated another human being in a way that she would not like to be treated. That said, SWIM acknowledges too that she is probably in the minority there......

[someone111]

man its pretty fucked up the way you was talking about addicts burnt but thank you for letting up a bit.... but not all addictions start because a person is trying to ecscape life, swims tramadol addiction started because he was perscribed to it... swim used tramadol for chronic pain and after a few months taking it everyday he realized he couldnt stop... soon after that he found out it could get him high so he took large doses from time to time to get that high... the next stage, he was getting high on tramadol EVERYDAY and since he took large doses everyday his monthly perscription was all gone pretty fast and swim found himself withdrawling for the first time.... swim has been addicted to tramadol for 4 or 5 years and is still having a very hard time trying to stop.... but thats that, lets just continue on with this thread and all tone it down a little like benga said..... back to the subject about cracks bad rep.... around swims area many people do cocaine but wont touch crack or hang around people who do crack.. swim got somewhat addicted to cocaine in the past and was called a crackhead from time to time and it was a realy bad feeling when called a crackhead.... swim has joked around and called people crackheads and stupid things like that but i think its all in human nature that people joke around about things and will call people names like a crackhead but then when they are referd to as the crackhead, its no fun at all....... swim has only done crack a few times because he doesn't enjoy it as much as cocaine to be honest.... when swim smokes crack all he does is think that hes forgetting to do something, like lock the car door, and will double check things like that about 10 times... on cocaine swim can go places and have a good time with no worries

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good point!

[beena]

Thats a good point....SWIM thinks part of the reason crack might have such a bad rep is cos people who take it tend to do it the majority of the time behind closed door so it seems kinda secretive and helps to re-enforce peoples attitude towards it (ie it's so bad that the people who smoke it do it in secret...hide away, etc), whereas cocaine (powder) has a much more sociable party image. Although again it depends on the nature of the addiction SWIM guesses, as when SWIM first started sniffin' coke it was done down the pub on a Friday or Saturday night but after six months or so constant use it was every night at home in front of the telly and SWIM wouldn't go out and do it cos she would be wondering how much her boyfriend was doing in the pub toilet if she did and he would be thinking the same when it was her turn...so it just led to paranoia about each-other and arguments. SWIM wonders if the main reason people don't usually do crack in public places is cos it's less easy to carry around all the necessary paraphenalia rather than cos of the actual social stigma attached. There is also a class issue: cocaine is seen as a 'middle-class' drug....celebrities do it too and we all want to do what celebrities do, don't we?!But still, SWIM's attitude has always been not to feel ashamed about her drug use/addiction because if she had thought it was so bad she wouldn't have tried it in the first place...at the end of a day taking a drug to feel good isn't the worst crime in the world. However, hand on heart, having been an addict for 8 years SWIM does feel some disappointment (if not shame) about the people she's hurt along the way....there are always innocent casualties, usually friends and families that will get hurt by a persons addiction so now SWIM realises that her choices were ultimately wrong through selfishness.....which leads SWIM to conclude that if we are looking at drugs and addiction seriously there is nothing funny about it at all, BUT - SWIM thinks it is human nature to make light of bad situations, so SWIM does understand where Burnt was coming from in his earlier remarks too.

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good post

[Burnt]

yea its all good SWIM was definatly being harse. SWIM was in a way venting fustrations he has towards others SWIM knows who SWIM would like to yell at in SWIMs real life. people please understand SWIM does not hate addicts or think addiction is something to be taken lightly. but if people have a serious drug problems and do stupid things there will be people in the world who will make stereotypes about it. thats just life. SWIM understands these stereotypes and thinks most of them are BS.

i find it interesting how people take crack to have a way worse reputation then cocaine. in SWIMs mind they are the same thing really. just crack comes on faster and is more intense. one could inject cocaine for a simlar type rush. in SWIMs mind there equally as dangerous. so people who think they can go around snorting as much coke as they want and its fine are no better then someone smoking crack. not that both drugs can't be used responsibly but to think that cocaine is better or safer or less dirty then crack is lame.

[cnsns2ccl2]

Swim knows a guy she was seeing who was snorting cocaine daily. She didn't notice any major differences with him except that he was definitely addicted. He said it irritated the fuck out of his nose so he switched to smoking crack. Once he started smoking crack is when he seemed to fall apart. This was the point where his personality got really sketchy, he started stealing from swim, he appeared not to be too concerned with personal hygiene. Swimrealizes that this is just one person she is viewing, but crack does seem to be worse than cocaine. Possibly because by smoking it one is able to take higher doses??

Swim has a question, said guy says he stopped but swim doesn't exactly believe him becauseome things just do not add up like the fact that he got paid and two days later has no money at all. Do crack addicts lie about stopping? If so why? Is it to get money or to get someone to trust you?