Combinations - Mixing Melatonin With Kava-Kava

[sl8b]

I've searched around the site, and it looked like their are conflicting opinions on mixing the two.

Swim wants to relax in a benzo kind of way. He is rumored to have 3mg melatonin's and kava extract. Also, word on the street is he has "tension release

[enquirewithin]

I would guess that that would make you very sleepy.

[PoolShark1184]

Funny how swiy should ask this question as swim has been mixing the two quite frequently in the past few weeks. Swim has definite problems getting to sleep sometimes so he has tried everything, finding that benzos were the best, while OTC sleep medicines just made him even more anxious and something resembling the "restless legs syndrome" except in his whole body. Anyway he started using Kava in the root form making a beverage, and at first this stuff put him right to sleep. Now, it seems that it lets him fall asleep at first but the sleep is very restless, and he wakes up over and over. He is not sure why this is and he doesnt think this is typical (maybe someone else can weigh in on how kava affects their sleep?). Anyway swim got some melatonin and started using that, and it has worked wonders. Makes him go to sleep right away and the sleep is great. Whe mixed with kava, there are definite sedative euphoric effects, very nice, and recommended, but it does make one fall asleep fairly quickly. Also it does not really help the fact that the kava makes swim sleep very lightly and restlessly.
Swim thinks that kava, when consumed in larger quantities, has almost a stimulant effect. So here is the recommendation for a great experience followed by great sleep. Drink kava somewhat early, give it enough time to go from stimulant activity to sedative activity (which is where the euphoria is present)
0:00- Consume one cup medium to strong strength kava.
0:30- One (or two!) more cup(s) kava
4:00- 3 mg melatonin
4:30- feeling lovely
5:00- feeling sleepy
Fall asleep at anytime after this, in a very euphoric, happy state of mind. Much clearer and much better than benzo's, in swim's opinion. This is also a general timeline of the kava experience: relaxing, yet stimulating activity for about 2 hours following dosage followed by 2-3 hours of sedative, euphoric bliss. Sometimes swim can still feel the kava in the morning after 8 hours of sleep.

Check out SWIMS other kava posts and anything posted by Bajeda for the real deal on kava.

[sl8b]

So swim REALLY needs to find some real kava? Not the extract from the local health food store?

[Swimster]

Isn't 'melatonin' a hormone?? Actually, melatonin controlls the circadian rhythm, wich is a 24-hour system that plays a critical role in determining when we fall asleep and when we wake up. Darkness stimulates the production of melatonin while light suppresses its activity. Exposure to excessive light in the evening or too little light during the day can disrupt the body’s normal melatonin cycles.

In other words, taking melatonin is like simply changing the time you feel tired in the day. this is why whan you wake up in the morning and look into the light, it helps you wake up.

[tayo]

exactly as swimster said, its a breakdown of serotonin, and the brain creates it in response to dark and light. Kava kava alone seems to have very subtle effects on SWIM, last night SWIM took valium and melatonin and that blended veryy well. seemingly doubling or tripling the potency of the valium, or so it felt.

[Bajeda]

Last night swim took Melatonin a few hours before bed (he always takes it beforehand, so it has time to settle in and so he is not overly tired the next day) and then drank some Kava brew around thirty minutes before sleep. Sleep was nice and deep and easy to fall in to, though dreams were even more intense than usual with Melatonin, with one even waking swim from his slumber at a particularly freaky moment, though that was after a good amount of sleep time anyways.

Swim always takes melatonin at least an hour or two before he wants to sleep so he starts getting drowsy and it adds to his natural melatonin being produced (melatonin levels naturally peak at around 2-3 in the AM), giving him a deep restful sleep, with all the bizarre dreams that go along with it. The Kava seemed to just make it easier to fall asleep initially without making sleep any more restful that it would be with the melatonin supplement, but a good mix all the same.

[Swimster]

kava can be used recreationally, but melatonin will make you want to sleep, adding melatonin with a recreational substance is not a bad idea at all Melatonin is a natural hormone. Kinda like taking a recreational substance late at night if you will. Swim will drink some kava brew tonight after being in the dark for some time without melatonin, and then perhaps in the middle of the next day with an average amount of light,with melatonin, and compare.

Also, those who want to use melatonin naturally, just be in the dark, in other words don't stare into the light for some time. Interesting stuff if you ask swim.

[sl8b]

Two of the "30 drips" of kava in water today, 30 minutes apart. Feelin' nothing. Nothing at all. hmmmmm....

[Bajeda]

You may want to look at this thread -----> Kava Kava Liquid Extract Dosage?

Many ethnobotanical alkaloids don't do so well extracted, perhaps because the process isn't right or people simply don't know what to extract. Kava is no exception to this, and many people find that the root itself is the only way to go if you want to try Kava for its effects. Tinctures seem to be favorable to people using Kava for anxiolytic purposes or to help with insomnia, but you still don't get much in the way of subjective effects with them.

[PoolShark1184]

SWIM reccommends drinking the whole 1 oz bottle of kava tincture to feel anything...or just get the root, its so much cheaper and more effective. Also remember the reverse tolerance.

[Bajeda]

After my bunny, "Bugs", played around with a melatonin and Kava combination to help to get to sleep a few times he concluded that its better to just stick with one or the other than to combine them.

Bugs also found that Kava's diuretic effects tended to nullify any benefits to falling and staying asleep as he had to get up and go to the bathroom during the night or would wake up very early needing to piss. He thinks a tincture or maybe chewing root pieces would be a better method of administration for those persons who want to try Kava as a sleep aid.

Bugs is going to stick with melatonin and 5-htp if he needs an extra sleep boost he thinks. Kava isn't bad for sleep enhancement, but it doesn't really have any synergy with melatonin in this area and you really need to consume it sublingually to sidestep the annoying diuretic effects.

[jux]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

Many ethnobotanical alkaloids don't do so well extracted, perhaps because the process isn't right or people simply don't know what to extract. Kava is no exception to this, and many people find that the root itself is the only way to go if you want to try Kava for its effects. .

i agree...freshly harvested vanuatu pounded root is the way to go...i tried a 30% powder extract and found it to be useless...the root provides better effects and it makes your mouth numb (in a good way!)

[merck33]

Wanna sleep? Take melatonin and L-theanine to knock you out and give you vivid dreams. Another fun one is valerian whole root tea and L-theanine like a weird valium.

[enquirewithin]

L-theanine sounds intersting.

[Bajeda]

My bunny tried mixing Kava and Melatonin again the other night. He made a brew with a couple of scoops of root powder after taking 3mg of melatonin an hour or so before. He got to sleep an hour after drinking the Kava brew.

The end result? He passed out nicely, had some freakish dreams but not nearly as many as he would with just melatonin, and ended up sleeping 12 hours. This combination definitely seems like it can be quite potent, but my rabbit is sticking with his previous conclusion.