1. time Heroin IV -how much?

[stoneinfocus]

Swim did horse usually snorted it, he´s gone through a gram in his whole life
he injected once about 10-15mg of estimated pure age and didn´t fell the euphoria and all the stuff everyone is telling about...

He had more of a buzz doing lots of it snorting, with sweating, nodding out, or the opposite, feeling totally cool with a lot drive in doing things, etc. ...

So how much would swiy inject the first time, to get yourself something like
the "real" heroin rush, assuming your opiate receptors are fresh, no tolerance no use within weeks or months... swim knows it safe up to 300mg for a newbie, but that would porbably a lot, meaning less would do the job.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Please do not post saying such high dosages is safe, it can be fatal to a newbie

[MrJim]

300mg IS NOT SAFE FOR A NEWBIE OR ANYONE ELSE!It depends on your dealers potentcy - These questions get asked alot - This isn't something to take lightly. You do that much and YOU WILL DIE.

[Psych0naut]

SWIM fully stands behind MrJim, 300mg is easilly a fatal dose, even with pretty cut heroin, don't follow the advice of taking 300mg.
A strong IV dose of pure heroin is 10mg, now you will never find pure heroin on the street, but even if it would be say, just 20% heroin, than 300mg still is 6 times more than a strong dose, following SWICo-incidence's advice can be fatal, DO NOT follow this up.

[stoneinfocus]

Mh, wiki USA says

Even for a non-user, the LD50 can be credibly placed above 350 mg.

So I was erring on the 300mg as the upper mark, swim being only muscle and little fat, so faster onset and fade are ususally common in swim, but with now good 76kg he should be safe with staying way under 200mg.

Well, I just would like to hear some experiences, maybe the iv route isn´t that intresting to swim at all, he did it three-four times now and didn´t find it worth the hustle.

How much did swiy used and what would you estimate is a common dose?
20mg? 50mg? 150mg?

[Alicia]

a very small amount, then gradually working his/her own way up, its impossible to given an est on street purity dope. unless swiy cleans it up or has a estimation of purity still it be a very tiny amount to begin with.

[MrJim]

I don't know what kind of dope goes around your neighborhoods but out here we've had near pure hit the streets which leads to rashes of OD's in habitiuated users whacking A QUARTER GRAM. That is 250mg. Wikipedia is not always right, it is a wiki. For all you know the person posting that doesn't know the first thing about ld50's. Or they do and want to see people die.

[MrJim]

Another thing to point out here is the definitition of LD50 - It should really be understood as to what it means : a chemical dose lethal to 50% of the population. Don't think of it as a single point but a graph. Let's use 300mg as a ld50. That means that 50% of the general population would die at 300mg. at 200mg say, 30% of the population would die. At 190mg say 25% (I am making up these numbers for illustrative purposes).
Now who wants to put a needle into their arm knowing that there is a 1 in 4 chance that it will result in death? Who wants to put a needle in their arm knowing that there is a 10% chance of death? See what I mean? You probably don't want to take such a large chance -50 50 - 1 in 2 chance you will die and a 1 in 2 chance you will get high. I wouldn't play those odds if my life depended on it.
And it does.

[stoneinfocus]

get high or die *lol*
Yeah, cool, I was thinking hitting someone up here, but the LD50 for heroin in rats was rather high... sure, the potent stuff in your neighbourhood wasn´t laced with fentanyl... rushes of lidocain or benzocain, other cuts?

Swim will most likely have to take this into account, the stuff around is pretty damn pure, though.
So, maybe he will cook up enough to make sure, he´s not dying and then working his way up.... maybe setting a cannula for convenience *lol* swim hates iv-ing, im is cool though.

[stoneinfocus]

Mh, on another drug site 50-70mg of H is stated to be a rather dangerous dose for a beginner, which swim confrims after he felt how great the effects of a tiny little bit through his nose were... the quality wasn´t even the same in the same batch from the same bag, for little amounts, says swim(some parts stuck together with cut, some rather pure?) ...

[OpiateWarrior]

Wow, 300mg is one & half ''bags'' in UK standards. A ''tenner's bag'' is 100mg up to 200mg, and there is about five bags in a G. Even full blown addicts would find 300mg hit, large(maybe only on pay-day) and if the gear is good then swim knows an addict can be in trouble, from swim's experience. A ''fiver's'' or ''half a bag''(50mg-100mg approx) would be a good hit for a newbie, even less maybe. Never use much more than swiy's injected before, and if swiy has a brake from the needle or detoxes? Then the tolerance level goes back to newbie user, its always better to be SAFE THAN SORRY when it comes to injecting, so have one normal sized(for you) hit and if swiy wants more. Then swiy knows how strong it is, so knows how much more to put in. Always test new gear, as it could be much stronger than swiy's use to.

[adzket]

in the uk a bag of h is 200mg swim injects all this due to recent arest swim had it tested by police came back at 70% morphine which is high for h this is fine for swim can still fuction but when they started smoking 200mgs would take hr of noding of waking up and carrieing on when they started to i.v it was 1/4 of a bag first folowed by another 1/4 if they need it or gear was not to good. always start with less and work upwards.

[samuraigecko]

Most people SWIM knows usually go "halves" in a "point" (0.1gr) for their first time. Others he knows have had the whole "point" (0.1gr) to themselves for their first time but usually people will go halves with a friend.

Actual mg dosage of DiacetylMorphine (Heroin) from street source is impossible to determine without expensive chemical analysis. DiacetylMorphine is used in hospitals for IMMEDIATE emergency pain relief (although if you ask they will just tell you "it is a stronger type of morphine which works quicker" or something of the sort). That is usually administered in 5mg or 10mg IV dosages depending on the severity of the pain and the type of emergency they are dealing with. After that initial need for IMMEDIATE pain relief is gone they will put one back on normal Morphine.


So to sum up.

0.1gr of street Heroin would be 100mg (1000mg = 1gr)

That 100mg is probably only around 20% to 30% pure at BEST,Sometimes more but not often. (This is from known chemical analysis of street drugs, citation can be given if needed).

100mg divided by 30% = 33.3mg, 100mg divided by 20% = 20mg.

One can deduce from this that a normal "point" (0.1gr) would be around 2 to 3 times more potent than a medicinal dosage used by hospitals for EMERGENCY pain relief.

So one could also deduce from this that if a "point" were shared between 2 people then around 10mg to 15mg would be the normal starting dosage for H4. If that "point" (0.1gr) were only used by the one person for their first time (which is often the case) then they would be having around 2 to 3 times the medicinal dosage for EMERGENCY pain relief situations.

All hypothetical situations here were carried under the assumption of H4 being the used substance. H3 is the "black tar" which is usually "prepared" before injection with the usage of citric acid or the like. H3 has usually been found to be weaker than H4 though this is not always the case.

[NOTE: CAUTION is always advised when thinking of actually using any opiate, being smart and alive is better than being dead with a stupid smile on ones face.]

Hope this has been of help

Reputation Comments on this post:

very true, seen that smile before.

[RDP]

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

Most people SWIM knows usually go "halves" in a "point" (0.1gr) for their first time.

I know I've said this in another thread, but UK people beware as a "point" on the street here refers to 0.4gr, so newbies shouldn't dream of using that much.

[JaWill88]

[quote=samuraigecko;357538]

All hypothetical situations here were carried under the assumption of H4 being the used substance. H3 is the "black tar" which is usually "prepared" before injection with the usage of citric acid or the like. H3 has usually been found to be weaker than H4 though this is not always the case.


umm swim is pretty sure black tar heroin is not number 3 (diacetylmorphine base) and it certainly doesn't need any citric acid to dissolve. it dissolves in water. swim could be wrong about it not being the base but it definately doesn't need something to break it down and dissolve. well besides maybe a little heat but little. however the brown powder (often in europe) seems to be base (heroin #3) and needs an acid to break it down like citric acid. unfortunately (actually maybe fortunately) swim has never seen either white powder heroin (#4) or the brown powder (most likely #3). swim does remember numerous people who have tried white powder heroin and black tar heroin saying that they enjoyed black tar much more. anyone know why this could be? swim heard black tar has other acetylated opioids as well as morphine. is this true?

[samuraigecko]

Mexican drug syndicates were producing heroin by the mid-1960s. Lacking the experience in chemistry that other syndicates had gained through years of illicit heroin production, Mexican organizations used less-refined morphine and also substituted primary chemicals in synthesis.The opium from which heroin is ultimately produced is a golden brown-to-black, gummy latex containing an average of 10% morphine, although morphine content can vary from 3 to 20 percent of content.

Pure morphine and heroin are both fine white and odorless powders. In order to produce heroin, morphine is extracted from raw opium and reacted with non-glacial acetic acid, primarily acetic anhydride for its efficiency. The purity of the final product, and therefore its color and texture, depend on the purity of the source material.

Early black tar heroin was notable for its low purity (usually under 30%, at a time when white powdered heroin from the east coast often tested at over 90%), but purity levels have increased dramatically as the producers have gained experience. Accordingly, the price per kilogram of black tar heroin has increased from one-tenth that of South American powder heroin in the mid-1990s to between one-half and three-quarters in 2003.

The effects of black tar heroin are identical to those of powder heroin (apparently, others seem to have posted experiences contrary to this). This is because, although less refined than powder forms, black tar makes up for purity in potency through excess alkaloids left in its creation process which effect its course of action.

Black tar heroin is found to contain byproducts such as 6-monoacetylmorphine / 6MAM (one wonders if this is because of the non-glacial acetic acid? This has been the cause of much debate of late).

6-monoacetylmorphine is more potent by weight, with less of a negative side effect per milligram, than heroin. However black tar heroin is also found to contain 6-acetylcodeine, which is more toxic than heroin and more likely to cause allergic reactions to otherwise opiate tolerant individuals. Because of the consistency of black tar heroin, it is usually injected or smoked. It can also be ground into powder or dissolved in water and snorted.

Mexican brown powder heroin is actually #4 heroin without the addition of activated carbon and the final step of ether and ethyl alcohol used by most #4 producers. It is often produced by the same syndicates that produce Tar, but is a distinct form of heroin. (Thus ones later joke about H3.5)

So one does stand corrected there. Black tar is indeed "H4" but a different form altogether.

H4 does not contain 6MAM or 6AC so one could almost call it "H3.5" because of the lack of acetylation in molecular position 3 and the lack of complete H4 procedure.

LOL.

Basically it seems to be a totally different form of acetylated Morphine than either H3 or H4, but actually somewhere in between.

Hope this has been of insight or help.