Sulfate vs base vs HDL(cristal)

[Davidbell]

Hi all, In my reading in Amphetamine class drugs, I'm a bit confused as for Sulfate, base and hdl form ?? what are they exactly

I see
Amphetamine Sulfate
Amphetamine Base
Methamphetamine Sulfate
Methamphetamine Base
Methamphetamine hdl (Cristal)

(as from the drug-price calculator)...

I'd like to have some explanation on what are specification difference bettween those. I'm a bit confused. Still learning.

[Davidbell]

No reply so far.

All I want to know is what is difference with base and sulfate. Especially Base what is it actually.

Is it a matter of purity ? or a matter of form ?
What form is the most pure ? (HDL I think)

please confirm

[Psych0naut]

As far as I know you won't actually find any amphetamine base. The term base is often used in European countries for strong amphetamine sulphate, but chemically amphetamine base is the freebase of amphetamine, just like crack is of cocaine. Both amphetamine and methamphetamine freebase rapidly react with the CO2 in the air to form amphetamine or methamphetamine carbonate. Though methamphetamine is sometimes encountered as the freebase form, for smoking(since it vaporouses at lower temperatures than the salt form) as far as I know amphetamine is never encountered as the free base.

[Swimster]

Like swid though, they are different forms.

sulfate: Salt form (sulfuric acid)
Base: AKA -"Freebase"- usually has a lower melting point, so is usually more ideal for smoking-like crack cocaine.
HDL-Not sure(perhaps pure crystaline)

[Micklemouse]

Should hdl be hcl (hydrochloride) perhaps? This would make sense as a suffix to methamfetamine. The Base form of sulphate does not I believe allude to any form of freebase, but rather to base as in uncut. Could be wrong though.

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

Should hdl be hcl (hydrochloride) perhaps? This would make sense as a suffix to methamfetamine. The Base form of sulphate does not I believe allude to any form of freebase, but rather to base as in uncut. Could be wrong though.

You're right Micklemouse, Swim typed wrong:
HDL is wrong.
HCL is what swim whated to type.

[Swimster]

perhaps it's different lingo that Swiwe are not getting.

[Davidbell]

The thing is that if you look from choice of Substance in the forum's Price calculator you may notice choice from
Amphetamine Sulfate
Amphetamine Base
Methamphetamine Base
Methamphetamine Sulfate (powder)
Methamphetamine hcl (Cristal)

Thats why Swim was wondering difference between all both.

[Swimster]

well both sulfate, and HCl, and freebase can be in crystal form. Crystal form is just a real pure, organized form of a substance, in which forms shards, rather than powder.

HCl, or Sulfate are acid molecules on the end of a substance, such as methamphetamine:HCl, or methamphetamine:Sulfate.
these are refered to as salts(HCl salt, or Sulfate salt)

The HCl is more common for Crystal though.

As for "base", it simply means that there is NO acid molecule on the end of a substance(non-salt), in other words, the substance is not HCl nor is it Sulfate. This is also why they call it freebase. ex: Methamphetamine:nothing, Freebase can also be in crystal form.(crystal is simply just pure, crystaline substance)
But don't worry about rather to choice sulf, or HCl, worry about Salt or Freebase. As stated above, freebase is supposed to be easier to smoke, because of the lower melting point, although, it is said to degrade easier. But if swiy is wanting methamphetamine for smoking, just tell him to get methamphetamine:HCl, powder, or crystal, crystal being more pure and preferable. No need for freebase methamphetamine for smoking, like with crack cocaine, because methamphetamine melts at a reasonable temperature, and dosn't burn to shit that simple like cocaine:HCl.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Great comment and helped Swim personnally

[Davidbell]

While SWIM cook meth, does he go through all kind of form of meth to get to his final Crystal form ?

and What percentage of purity of meth are Base, Sulfate, and Crystal
Sulfate: ?% pure methamphetamine
Base: ?% pure methamphetamine
Crystal: ?% pure methamphetamine

Also swim is wondering if Crystal can be made in FINE powder as much as the Sulfate form ?

[Swimster]

^^well, swiys substance could go through a number a forms, it really depends on what methods he is following. Anyway..

Crystal is supposed to be the purest, and most preferable, although purity depends on the crystals...

where-as, if swiy comes out with big crystals, there will be less crystals, but they will big, and pure. Alot of small crystals will be less pure...Usually though.

Depends on how one does things.

Anyway, swiy could have Pretty pure Sulfate, or HCl, or Freebase, (via crystals). But as to your post: Sulfate, HCl and base can all be crystaline, this is what tells one how pure it is. In other words crystals are not like sulfate, or HCl acid molecules, they can BE in crystaline form, or powder. Just keep in mind that crystal form is not a from like Sulfate, or HCl, or freebase.
Crystals are rather what the structure of a substance turns into.(when pure)

But crystal form is alot more pure. If a substance is real pure, it will atomatically form crystals, but small ones. THEN, one "recrystalizes", and get's the big one's swiy is used to seeing.

So.. powder means impure.

[Davidbell]

Also swim is wondering if Crystal can be made in FINE powder as much as the Sulfate form, by crushing the cristal and cutting them with a razor blade until it is complete fine powder ?

(I guess so) can you confirm ?
That would mean. This shit would be the PURED type of meth, in a powder form!

[Swimster]

Originally Posted by Davidbell

Also swim is wondering if Crystal can be made in FINE powder as much as the Sulfate form, by crushing the cristal and cutting them with a razor blade until it is complete fine powder ?

(I guess so) can you confirm ?
That would mean. This shit would be the PURED type of meth, in a powder form!

actually no. A crystaline solid is ALWAYS a crystaline solid when pure.

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Swimster

actually no. A crystaline solid is ALWAYS a crystaline solid when pure.
If one could say-"cut it up" into fine peices it is still crystal form, swiy could just tell by looking at it! Crystals don't resemble powder. Theyl just be-"mini crystals"

Here come a question I've been wondering FOR YEARS.

Usually, a Speed pill weight around 300 and 500mg and contain about only 10 to 40 mg of Active Ingredient, which 99% time should be meth. Since it is the most potent and easiest to make form of amphetamine.

SWIM's question is how come someone can homogeneously add this meth to the pill.... ?
SWIM'S guess is that no pill can contain the HCL form of meth... only the sulfate form...

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Swimster

actually no. A crystaline solid is ALWAYS a crystaline solid when pure.
If one could say-"cut it up" into fine peices it is still crystal form, swiy could just tell by looking at it! Crystals don't resemble powder. Theyl just be-"mini crystals"

SWIM is pretty confused now about something but hope he will get the answer from all of you helpfull ppl.
How come Desoxyn® tablet can be made if they are Methamphetamine HCL (crystal)
Swim think that Cristal can be crushed into pills... Otherwise, they could not call it Methamphetamine HCL but sulfate.

SWIM think he is misinformed or as lack of, on what really is HCL (Hydrochloride)
Does HCL automatically mean it is crystal or can the HCL also be a powder ???
In other word. What is the difference between Sulfate and Hydrochloride ?

[Micklemouse]

To be honest I do not think there is such a thing as Methamphetamine Sulphate, only Amfetamine Sulphate.

Metamfetamine HCL in pill form is most likely Desoxyn

Illicit Meth is usually the crystalline form of Methamfetamine HCL

Amfetamine Sulphate in pill form is most likely either Dexedrine or Adderall

Illicit Amfetamine Sulfate is usually either powder or paste (Base - the fresh, relatively (allegedly!) uncut version).

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

To be honest I do not think there is such a thing as Methamphetamine Sulphate, only Amfetamine Sulphate.

Metamfetamine HCL in pill form is most likely Desoxyn

Illicit Meth is usually the crystalline form of Methamfetamine HCL

Amfetamine Sulphate in pill form is most likely either Dexedrine or Adderall

Illicit Amfetamine Sulfate is usually either powder or paste (Base - the fresh, relatively (allegedly!) uncut version).

Well SWIM don't know what's going in your country/region but here, Speed comes in BATCH. The last batch was the Shell Speed (a little shell brend logo on the pill) Those batch are done in HUGE SIZE production, turning around 100 000 to 200 000 pills per batch, then passed into the street. (SWIM Guess its the same where you live).

Now considering the fact that Those pill are not "prescribed pill" (I doubt you will have any type of prescription pill having a logo like shell or coca-cola on it), SWIM think there is almost no chance that those pill are made out of legal prescribed medication like amphetamine and adderal....
SWIM Think they are made of METH... Please argue

[Swimster]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

To be honest I do not think there is such a thing as Methamphetamine Sulphate, only Amfetamine Sulphate.

I believe any amine can be sulfate, although it is not too common for crystal meth, most prefer to crystalize HCl, rather than Sulfate. Also, most amphetamine seems to be sulfate(powder). Perhaps sulfate doesn't form to good of crystals.

[Micklemouse]

I can't be arsed arguing. I will put a point of view & a couple of facts though.

In Britain Methamfetamine is still, despite the press hype, virtually unheard of outside of certain circles, so no the batch pill scenario is not the case here. The only pills in Britain that would meet that sort of description would be Ecstasy (MDMA (3,4 methylenedioxy-methamfetamine or 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylamphetamine) - a very different creature, despite the inclusion of methamfetamine in the chemical name).

Amfetamine Sulphate (powder or base) is however made in batches, but rarely if ever pressed into pills, at least not that A Certain Mouse has heard of. The only "brand name" the Mouse has come across regarding Sulphate is Pink Champagne, so called because it is pink, strangely enough.

The fact that Desoxyn exists means that Methamfetamine HCL can be pressed into pill form - a crystal can certainly be crushed or ground into powder (we're not talking about quartz here after all, so this should not take too much effort!). Any extra weight will be made up from binders or adulterants.

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Micklemouse

The fact that Desoxyn exists means that Methamfetamine HCL can be pressed into pill form - a crystal can certainly be crushed or ground into powder (we're not talking about quartz here after all, so this should not take too much effort!). Any extra weight will be made up from binders or adulterants.

The above clear up some confusion, thanks.

[Swimster]

HCl form can be crystal OR powder.


And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate
And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebase

[Davidbell]

Originally Posted by Swimster

HCl form can be crystal OR powder. So can sulfate.
Try here for more info:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystalization

And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrochloric_acid
And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulfate
And:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebase

Thanks, but questionning what is the difference between Sulfate and HCL

UPDATE: Great thanks to you Swimster, SWIM now understand better what Sulfate and HCL are. Still questionning but a bit clearer
Do you know if Methamphetamine is more pure as a Sulfate or HCL ?
SWIM'S guess is that the HCL is but he's unsure

[hh339]

Meth HCl and Meth sulphate from the same batch had identical effects in SWiM. Not that he had expected anything else...

Same thing with Amphetamine.

[DonReek]

as far as swim knows amphetamine base is wet and sticky and is pink,grey or white and is the purest because it is harder to cut when in this form.

[FrenchFries]

seems like gram for gram methamphetamine hydrochloride would be stronger thank methamphetamine sulphate because the molecular weight of the sulphate salt is higher than the HCl. So on a gram per gram bases if you look at the stoichiometry I think there would be more methamphetamine molecule in a gram of methamphetamine HCl than in a single gram of methamphetamine sulphate(which swim believes the formula for is either S04 or if not that then h2so4 perhaps) any way. Of course the free base form is going to be the strongest in terms of molecules of meth per gram of product, however, unless you are smoking it, swim doesn't believe it is possible for freebase to really be absorbed in effective amounts by the human body. The sulphate or hydrochloride acid group at the end of the molecule make it water soluble. So, when all is said and done. swim thinks methamphetamine HCl is the better deal out of all three choices.