amphetamine tolerance strange idea

[izzy31]

SWIM has this idea that the tolerance is built simply by trying to duplicate the first experience - maybe expecting to feel a certain way and "knowing" what amphetamine feels like is what builds up tolerance to it. because swim uses everday and when swim doesnt pay any attention to the effects (waiting for them to kick in, not really caring about it) he feels them alot stronger - is tolerance all psychological?

[enquirewithin]

Physical and mental tolerance both exist.

[Daytona71]

Not having expectations would likely allow someone to feel a bit more. SWIM has been having the same problem, 60mgs. not producing any euphoria at all, just a cloudy feeling with some nervousness. SWIM remembers one Black beauty about 35 years ago knocking his socks off and he split the cap into 2 doses taken a few hours apart! That was a 20mg. cap. Just ABOUT TO DO A SEARCH FOR IT, BI-PHETAMINE HE BELIEVES.

[svenghali]

Agreed.
SWIM used to be a heavy amph user for a while and now sometimes when he uses, over 2 years from then, he has difficulty discerning the amphetamine feeling from what he normally feels, even at doses exceeding 150mg. For this reason he doesn't really like to play with amphetamines or stimulants anymore.

[Daytona71]

Well SWIM is stopping Ambien for sleep and says Methadone will be weaned away in 4 weeks but Valium at 40mgs./day will probably have to stay along with the 50mgs. of Dilaudid. One interesting thought is SWIM suffers from depression and was thinking perhaps the same nerve transmitters that are causing the depression may be a factor and was considering something like Zoloft to see if it was possible to get the brain to work as it should and then .....maybe.
150mgs.! Scarry especially at 3 times your age.

[izzy31]

I think tolerance with amphetamines only occurs when it's used for its euphoric effect. The concentration and focus (and the tweaking) aspects of the drug can be felt with almost any amount of use, but whatever dose used to tweak/obsess over something (a moderate 30-60+mg dose) was first felt by the user as a much stronger euphoric rush, but I think the euphoria effect of speed wears off after a few times of use. if the same dose is used repeatedly, the user will eventually feel nothing more than the energy and focus effect from that dose and will need to increase it to feel the euphoria once again. but im not sure how tolerance occurs spaced out over a matter of time between each time of use. the tolerance may be lowered with time but eventually i think the dose NEEDS to be increased no matter what dose is used to get high.

[Daytona71]

Of course tolerance is a factore but SWIM doid not feel the same as when a Black Beauty( 20mgs.) was injested when he/she was 18 and SWIM thinks that many years of other substances have damaged brain receptors that perhaps an anti depressant might restore to some extent. 20mgs. rocked and from what he/she said it was hard to believe such a dose was actually prescribed. An acquaintance was once on Dexamyl and Dexedrine and a couple of each did the same as the BB. The former being 15mgs., time relaesed, with a barb added for the come down though little it did. That would be like an initial dose of 20mgs or a bit lower. Nothing close with 60mgs or so he/she has said. Actually a crappy feeling with much leg discomfort probably from the enhancencement of nerve damage from several back surgeries. Perhaps an anomaly?

[screener]

Swim is no expert, but he believe he read that physical speed tolerance is increased by certain cells getting broken down by the body because microscopic amounts of speed binds with them, and the body doesn't recognize the cells for what they really are.

Swim also believe he read somewhere that it is possible to ingest certain vitamins at the start of your comedown, that will help recover the cells that are being broken down, before they are lost.

He Thinks it was a combination of Vitamin C and Vitamin B3.
An orange or two should cover the Vitamin C.
And a cup of coffee contains the required B3 vitamin. (Just don't drink more than a cup of coffee, And remember to hydrate after drinking it.)


The Tolerance will still grow, but at a much slower pace than it normally would've if the cells were broken down immediately.

Swims tolerance has barely increased in 2 months after he started taking multivitamin capsules before speeding (one more for each day if speeding over several days)... Then when coming down, swim has been eating a lemon or a few oranges, and ingested a cup of coffee as well, combined with extra hydration because of the caffeine combined with speed of course.


This is probably full of errors so please correct me where I'm wrong, swim has been awake for a while, and just came from work so please forgive him.

But what swim is trying to say is that there must be something to ingesting the right vitamins at the right time.

[Daytona71]

Remember to SWIM here as there are no "I's" or "eyes" may be lurking around!
SWIM has found that friends that go back to the 60's and 70's when these were plentiful and the popular saying was "SPEED KILLS" that those do not get the euphoria they did in those days so age and depletion of___________? is causing this lack or euphoria and not tolerance. In fact SWIM had an OLD friend visit and seven 10mg. tabs of Dextroamphetamine did not produce any euphoria but the friend did return to "normal" as a major back surgery disabled him 20 years ago and his meds usually keep him taking several naps a day. With the D-amps he was able to carry on a bit longer and he became somewhat more mobile. As SWIM mentioned back in the day a single "Black Beauty" (20mg.) would rock SWIM and take away a night's sleep where now 20mgs. will allow SWIM to take a nap through the effects.
Because the medications SWIM is prescribed the D-amps are used to keep him awake driving a car and they hardly do that as a 70 mile drive yesterday had him nodding but a friend was with SWIM and helped out.
So how about hearing from the over 50 crowd and what you experience if the opportunity arrises. SWIM was ecstatic when these were prescribed with vivid memories of what SWIM felt in those old days mentioned only to be let down tremendously and confused as to what is causing this phenomenom. Anyone?

[screener]

Swim knows that he needs to remember to SWIM, He didnt realize the errors before it was posted, and Swim cant find any edit button

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by screener

Swim knows that he needs to remember to SWIM, He didnt realize the errors before it was posted, and Swim cant find any edit button

It's cool, we all make the same mistake once!
Newbies cannot edit but when you are a silver member you will be able to edit. Be careful, smart and safe!

[jazzmetalguitar]

Don't forget that all effects of amphetamines are caused by dopamine excess by means of a dopamine flood and then preservation of the dopamine in the synapse (though norepinephrine levels are also affected). Tolerance occurs because overstimulated and chronically stimulated dopamine receptors become desensitized or even die. Luckily, dopaminergic systems repair much more easily than serotonin-based systems. So the tolerance will go away. There are things to prevent this tolerance from growing.

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by jazzmetalguitar

Don't forget that all effects of amphetamines are caused by dopamine excess by means of a dopamine flood and then preservation of the dopamine in the synapse (though norepinephrine levels are also affected). Tolerance occurs because overstimulated and chronically stimulated dopamine receptors become desensitized or even die. Luckily, dopaminergic systems repair much more easily than serotonin-based systems. So the tolerance will go away. There are things to prevent this tolerance from growing.

Please explain the reason that some have not had any amphetamines for two decades and yet they do not work, not euphorically anyways.

[candy_kid]

^^ a quote from another forum : "Amphetamine tolerance is caused by excess Ca++ influx through the NMDA receptor gated calcium channels on the outer membranes of the dopamine cells bodies in the ventral tegental area, one of two areas in the brain with concentrations of dopamine producing neurons." -- this tolerance happens on top of dopamine desensitization and apparently takes 'much' longer to return to normal, but of course can be slowed by taking partial nmda antagonists such as magnesium and dxm with the amps

anyway, jazzmetalguitarist I believe was both pointing out the short term tolerance that would have easily repaired decades later like you said 'and' the other possible long term tolerance that could exist here due to dopamine neurons previously being damaged to such excess that they died (apparently quite possible with chronic high level doses of amps)

[Suave]

Perhaps the reason for tolerance could be said to be physical (the drug slowly depletes the amount of feel-good chemicals produced naturally in the brain) and the reason to continue to feed the tolerance is psychological (in that you continue to up the dose because you want to feel as good from it as you used to)?

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by Suave

Perhaps the reason for tolerance could be said to be physical (the drug slowly depletes the amount of feel-good chemicals produced naturally in the brain) and the reason to continue to feed the tolerance is psychological (in that you continue to up the dose because you want to feel as good from it as you used to)?

Remember there are no "you's" here but there are SWIY's, Someone Who isn't You. SWIMhad not had D-amps for decades and they did not produce the remembered effect. SWIM does believe in what SWIY says about depletion and believes it is simply aging, as an old acquaintance did 70mgs. and felt some extra energy but no euphoria and that is a bit after a dacades also. THX! Be careful and be safe.

[Suave]

I thought general "you"'s were allowed? As in, where "you" is the same as "one"?

Thanks for the heads-up anyway.

[Daytona71]

Didn't mean anything but know the rules are tight for a reason and this conversation is specific to a few individuals, that's all. All is gpod. THX!