Why no euphoria?

[Daytona71]

SWIM has had several back surgeries and has a pump implanted that delivers about 1mg. of morphine sulphate per hour intrathecally(directly to the spinal canal/brain). To supplement this SWIM also has 60mgs. of Methadone available daily though he tries to stay around 40mgs. Then he adds about 48mgs-64mgs. of Dilaudid to this depending on the pain. SWIM also has prescribed 40mgs. of Valium per day. A 12.5 mg. tab of Ambien CR at bedtime. Since SWIM has nodded at the wheel he has 40mgs. of Dextroamphetamine daily. This is the area he has a question about. he said that back when he was young around '71 he had 1 (ONE) cap of what was called a Black beauty which he understands to be 10mgs. of apmhetamine sulfate anhd 10mgs of dexadrine. It rocked him.
Recently 60mgs. of Dexedrine did not do anything like the BB of the past. He tried to swallow some water and bicorbonate of soda an hour before the dose. He got a little happy but that was it. SWIM is thinking the combo of meds are stopping the dexedrine to produce the effect of when he was younger, much younger! He said he was thinking of stopping the bedtime Ambien and slowing the Benzo slowly and perhaps some of the opioids. Is there anything else he should/could try? Do you think he is on the right track with his plan? Suggestions? He says thanks.

[enquirewithin]

SWIM remembers "Black Bombers/ Bettys"-- time release capsules. It's likely that the opiods, especially the methadone, (which is a really dulling, boring drug, although good at killing pain)) are negating euphoria SWIY might get from the dexedrine. Some people like it, but SWIM has never enjoyed mixing speed and opiods.

I hope SWIY's back gets better soon!

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

SWIM remembers "Black Bombers/ Bettys"-- time release capsules. It's likely that the opiods, especially the methadone, (which is a really dulling, boring drug, although good at killing pain)) are negating euphoria SWIY might get from the dexedrine. Some people like it, but SWIM has never enjoyed mixing speed and opiods.

I hope SWIY's back gets better soon!

SWIM recalls the Bi-phetamine being a white powder with black specks, not time release but thought wow this is prescribed?! Now having it available for a while he was dissapointed. Told of chewing the inside of his mouth and talking incessantly, stayed awake all night and now at triple the dose theere is 1/4 the effect. I will pass on the suggestion to eliminate what is possible and cut the rest back as much as possible to see what July brings and let you know his result. From what I understand the back will be this way for the duration but it has been tolerable with the pump which the powers that be are trying to get dilaudid authorized for the pump as SWIM said after the pumpimplant ssurgery he was given 3 doses of morphine and no post op relief but just two 1mg. doses IV did the trick like magic! THX

[Lehendakari]

Originally Posted by Daytona71

SWIM has had several back surgeries and has a pump implanted that delivers about 1mg. of morphine sulphate per hour intrathecally(directly to the spinal canal/brain). To supplement this SWIM also has 60mgs. of Methadone available daily though he tries to stay around 40mgs. Then he adds about 48mgs-64mgs. of Dilaudid to this depending on the pain. SWIM also has prescribed 40mgs. of Valium per day. A 12.5 mg. tab of Ambien CR at bedtime.

Woah!! That's a lot of downers in your system daily! Although opioids are not exactly downers I guess dex is not working properly cause the amount of downers counteracting dex effects. SWIM has tried methylphenidate with benzos (clonazepam, alprazolam) and opioids (buprenorphine, tramadol, codeine) and always found opioids diminished stimulant euphoria.

He likes methylphenidate with benzos, and methylphenidate with alcohol but not with opioids

[SatansGod]

In SWIM's experience, dexi's are really really subtle, and you really can't feel them. Try finding some addy's and giving those a shot.

[Psych0naut]

Dexedrine is 100% dextro-amphetamine, while adderall is 75% dextro-amphetamine. The levo isomer of amphetamine only aids absorbtion but is much less active than the dextro isomer. Dexedrine will give stronger effects and more euphoria than adderall, that's certain.

[Daytona71]

Originally Posted by Psych0naut

Dexedrine is 100% dextro-amphetamine, while adderall is 75% dextro-amphetamine. The levo isomer of amphetamine only aids absorbtion but is much less active than the dextro isomer. Dexedrine will give stronger effects and more euphoria than adderall, that's certain.

This is what I have read. The list is what SWIM is actually prescribed so there is no looking for anything. The looked for things are extremely rare and belong on the hallucinogenic forum. SWIM was simply excited to find something given to him that nhe had not seen in 20 years and did not get the remembered result but will see if he can taper off some of the different direction chems and try again next month. I will have him let us know. Thanks

[Daytona71]

SWIM has some encouraging news. Added cymbalta which is for depression with related pain and now the dextro is working better. Besides the downers/opioids SWIM felt that his/her neuro transmitters in the brain were not functioning porperly and that seems to have been at least part of the problem. Still a 20mg. dose that as a single Bi-phetamine capsule back in '71 does not Come close to the effect that Black Beauty had. SWIM will continue the cymbalta as it has been about 2 weeks and it takes at least that long or longer for a desired blood level to accumulate and has backed the methadone to 10mgs./day and will see what next month brings. SWIM believes a dose that is too much for his age is required so it may be that the euphoria of the past is just that, in the past, but he/she will continue to experiment to see what can get the dextro to work more as was remembered. THX

[asplinteredfawn]

Swim is on 121mg of Methadose given to him by a local Methadone clinic. He also has prescriptions for 3mg of Generic blue Alprazolam oval tablets and Generic Barr Dextroamphetamine 10mg tablet, he is prescribed 2 2 times a day; so 40mg a day. He usually sets his alarm for 20 minutes before he has to wake up to go to the Methadone clinic. He takes 20mg of dextroamphetamine orally or rectaly depending on his mood then falls back asleep for 20 minutes. Then when he wakes up to go to the clinic, he is refreshed and ready for the day. Otherwise he is a zombie. On weekends swim will I.V. his Dextroamphetamine if he has wheel filters, wich he has trouble finding; unless he can aford to buy them in bulk which I know he can't; He has told me their aren't any internet sites where you can buy single rigs,fits or wheel/micron filters. So sometimes he does an extraction but he tells me it's a daunting process and that you a decent amount of the drug and it's often more economical and healthier to just take it rectally or oral. But he has also noticed that he no longer her the euphoria he once had. Swim has been prescribed to adderall, adderall xr, ritalin, concerta, dexedrine and dextrostat. Swim is pretty sure that it's the Methadone, because he rarely takes his xanax unless he can't sleep, if he's comming down of stimulants, is having a panic attack or is anxious/ nervious or if he has run out of dexedrine. Swim, is sort of afraid that that maybe since he's taken amphetamines for so long 10 years + everyday, w/ a few months and a year or two of sobriety mixed around in there speraticly. But Swim thinks maybe his dopamine receptors are just burnt out. Because he NEVER feels like how he used to feel when he'd take a 30mg or 60mg of adderall. That warm bliss in your chest .ect now it's pretty much non euphoric but it's stimulating so he uses it as a tool and enjoys it. Does anyone know of anything such as vitamins or herbal treatments for whatever this might be? I just wanted to let the other swim know my swim also doesn't get euphoria very much.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Better formatting would help make your post more readable. That way more people would read it and any knowledge you con...

[Daytona71]

SWIM has confirmed that the antidepressant he is taking for depression and related pain has helped with the Dextroamphetamine's workings. I agree with you about the receptors in the brain and suggest that if an antidepressant is appropriate that it be considered.

[Beeker]

I'm prescribed 40mg of Dexedrine a day. Barr is the only maker of the tablets. If you use d-amphetamine sulphate as prescribed forget euphoria unless you stop taking it for a week.

Sometimes I run out a week early and the first day back on I get light euphoria and extreme well-being on 40mg but the next day it's just focus and alertness.

If you are looking for more euphoria with an 'up' SWIM would recommend looking at 2CB or some other PEA but only every 10 days.

Stay away from opiates. :P

[Daytona71]

SWIM had an acquaintance take 70mgs of the same and same thing, no euphoria. Must be an age thing or the need for narcotics for chronic pain though anti-depressants seem to be helping with both the pain and effect of the dextro.

[eltimmy]

Well, weak dopamine receptor function (induced by regular use of dopaminergics) would in theory affect sensitivity to any dopaminergic you take.

[asplinteredfawn]

I agree w/ your comment as well as your avatar.

[candy_kid]

I read a while ago that MAO-B deteriorates dopamine receptors as we age at a certain (small) percent per year-- this was in a study suggesting that tobacco smoking while terrible for you can prevent this deterioration as nicotine is a MAO-B inhibitor. Parkinsons patients also get MAO-B inhibitors as an early treatment for prevention of further dopamine receptor damage which backs up the theory, though not necessarily the rate of destruction.. Anyway, just a thought, but maybe the op's friend doesn't actually have the same receptor quality as they used to?

Dopamine sensitization from the opiates like others have suggested of course is probably more likely, which would be an optimal reason since the dopamine system resets itself so quickly when the receptors are actually still alive (assuming opiate use would eventually be ended) Just thought I'd get the other possibility out there too

For now, why doesn't doesn't swiy pick up something with more angels of euphoria, such as mdma (which releases serotonin, (possibly?)oxytocin and dopamine)? stimulants aren't really that great for the high alone anyway

Good luck to your friend either way

[Daytona71]

SWIM has found that Cymbalta which is an antidepressant with associated pain has helped some and I understand SWIM is barely taking any Methadone anymore. Still SWIM is taking about 40mgs. of Diazepam a day along with something to help sleep, usually Ambien CR. These cannot be helping her with the problem either. THX for the aditional advice/info as it will be passed on!

[rocksmokinmachine]

SWIM knows of monkeys that find amphetamines provide nothing but pure motor driven stimulation and no euphoria at all. With all the downers/opioids SWIY is on its not suprising he feels nothing from them.

[eltimmy]

this was in a study suggesting that tobacco smoking while terrible for you can prevent this deterioration as nicotine is a MAO-B inhibitor

Yea. It's beta-carbolines in smoked tobacco that produce MAOI actually. The neuroprotective effect of cigarettes probably also has much to do with nicotine, which apparently inhibits lipid peroxidation, mops up free radicals (not enough to make tobacco smoke nontoxic), and exhibits some not-yet-quite-understood mode of neuroprotection related in a deeper way to its primary effect -- the stimulation of nACh receptors.

With all the downers/opioids SWIY is on its not suprising he feels nothing from them.

Good point. These downers will interfere with the adrenergic effects of psychostimulants at least, which drives much of the dopamine release independent of their primary dopaminergic effect.

ss'why dopamine agonists aren't really euphoric.

I agree w/ your comment as well as your avatar.

Reputation Comments on this post:

very informative post, thanks :)

[Daytona71]

SWIM's Morphine pump was recently raised to 25mgs./day so the Methadone can be eliminated. The Dilaudid will be taken at the least dose possible for relief and she will try not taking the Ambien for a week and se if that helps with the Dexedrine's effect. maybe drop the Diazepam to 30mgs./day also. The Cymbalta should help the receptors in SWIM's brain work to accept the Dexies better and since it helps with overall relief of depression that can't hurt but suggestions are welcome. THX

[eltimmy]

suggestion: Is SWIY sure s/he wants to scale back medicines presumably taken in therapeutic interest in order to try and get a recreational, euphoric effect from dexedrine?

Euphoric feelings from dextroamphetamine are related to dopaminergic activity in the nucleus accumbens, to which you develop a tolerance extremely quickly* . I actually don't recommend chasing them.

*(unlike some of the therapeutic effects such as focus and motivation, which can actually develop reverse tolerance -- ie you take a lower dose to produce the same effect)

[Daytona71]

Update. First there does not seem to be a way to get some olf the junk out of the tablets so it could be snorted to see if Bioavailability is increased, anyone know of a way? All opioids are kept to a minimum as they no longer provide any warm fuzzy anyways so it is just enough to be comfortable. Another oldie but goodie also found that the dextroamphetamine did not produce the once sought after effect that was once available and SWIM cannot believe some are saying this medication does not produce euphoria!
Goodness a 20mg. Bi-phetamine was amazing 36 years ago, should have been illegal! SWIM remembers taking half and feeling good and adding the other half and staying awake all night.
Must be a way to get some of the filler out of these tabs, anyone?

[candy_kid]

swim had something happen recently that made me think of this post

Swim normally gets euphoria from dex when he takes it. Swim was feeling especially tired and unfocused one day recently; he took a dose of dex and began to feel euphoria but still unfocused. In hopes that he could create a more clear headed mind-state without overdoing the dex, he took a low dose of codeine (which is of course metabolized into morphine). For some reason however, the euphoria disappeared completely; the dose of codeine would not have been large enough to create euphoria on it's own, but swim didn't expect a reverse effect. Swim says the body high felt like a low dose of codeine on it's own (plus stimulation); as if the codeine's dopamine effects were taking precedence rather than adding to the dex. 4 hours after taking the dex and 2 hours after taking codeine swim took more dex and noticed a slight build in 'numb' but no euphoria. When the codeine wore off at around t:5h swim felt mild rushing and euphoria again, like the codeine was gone and the dex was finally allowed through; this continued as normal for the rest of the run.

I can't attest to why this happened, but it does suggest a hypothesis that (at least) low (non euphoric) doses of opiates may somehow block the euphoria dex creates while in action. Swim's curiosity hopes to test this hypothesis in the future and will repost when he gets the chance. It might explain the situation with the morphine though?

to your other question : what kinda tabs are they? If its beads, then swiy might be interested in folding a piece of paper in half and emptying them into the fold. Then folding the paper with the beads against the fold and taking a cologne bottle's bottom and rubbing back and forth until they're satisfactorily crushed. It isn't the healthiest thing for a nose to have all the time release binders and such, but if its not a regular thing then it has been noted to work in various areas of the web.

Reputation Comments on this post:

interesting thoughts

[kill]

swim would like some help as swim is unable to post another thread but felt this question was relevant.

on friday swim did 7 lines of speed. this was swims first time. it was cut by swim so swim knows exactly how much was there... swim had NO reaction, euphoria, NOTHING! swim found this to be a huge let down. swim didnt even have a come down as swim never went up to begin with.

swim has been on antidepressants for about 3 weeks to one month. zoloft to be precise. is this why swim felt no effects from the 7 lines of speed?

[candy_kid]

did swiy have any friends trying the speed with them to back up it's legitimacy? it could very well have been caffeine or something not quite so fun sold 'as' speed (which technically caffeine can be considered) -- what other effects were there? different things can react differently with amphetamines or anything else of course, but even if say the euphoria was missing swiy should have felt something still, say, excited or restless? --

on that note an SSRI does cancel out mdma's effects... amphetamines work harder on dopamine so I dunno if that'd be the same idea- I could see it being possible