Morphine Content in Poppy Pod

[tayo]

What is the range of morphine content in percent of a dried poppy pod? And the best way of ingestion through tea, SWIM heard you're not supposed to boil it... maybe grind it up and let it soak in warm water for a day?... shaking in a nalgene then putting it in a french press and there you have it?

[MrJim]

All these answers can be forund by Using the search engine and reading up. We typically like to start new subjects about new things but I see you're new here, so I'll help you this time.

Morphine content varies depending on the opium - typically from 5-20%. This broad variance is why newbies to opiates are strongly advised to start with very little until one becomes familar with their own individual tolerance.


There is a sticky entitled "Poppy Tea Preparation" right above this post. Read it all. There are lots of ways, but the basic principals remain the same. You want to aviod boiling, this is correct.
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30826

On another note I see you know SWIM and you are new here. That is nice - alot of people don't take the time to learn the rules, which really are for everyone's sake - Thanks for taking the time.
All the best,
Mrjim

Reputation Comments on this post:

friendly and informative reply considering :)

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by tayo

What is the range of morphine content in percent of a dried poppy pod? And the best way of ingestion through tea, SWIM heard you're not supposed to boil it... maybe grind it up and let it soak in warm water for a day?... shaking in a nalgene then putting it in a french press and there you have it?

the average concentration of ACTIVE alkaloids in papaver S. ranges from 10% to 20% but is typically found to be around the 12 to 14 percent mark. the average concentration of active alkaloids in the tassie purple strain was said to be around 20% (supposedly the highest reported morphine content strain available) i have made other posts however that will show (and also if you google it) that the tassie strain is no longer a very stable thing. google for CSIRO and see what they have done, imagine the cross polination of massive feilds . . . imagine the results.

the best way for ingestion is DEFINATLY NOT to eat or drink it, it will give you stomach pains etc etc etc . . but you can also not control the dose unless you are willing to guniea pig yourself. here is an example:

"you boil up some tea with a heap of pods boil it down a bit and make some good tea. you wait for it to kick in a bit . . it starts to kick in and its too much for you. you cant throw it up because your stomach has already absorbed a certain amount of it and all of a sudden you realise that you have had too much. what will you do then? ring the hospital? ring an ambulance? cos thats what you will have to do . . or face overdose from opiates"

here is a quick scenario of what will happen if you smoke opium:

"you smoke a small amount, about the size of a match head or smaller. it may be enough for you once it kicks in, and it will kick in ALOT quicker than drinking poppy wash. if it isnt enough . . smoke a little bit more . . you have more CONTROL over your dosage and will get a more IMMEDIATE effect from it also instead of having to wait for your stomach wall to digest the liquid"

seems to me which route is the right way to go. making opium is easy, either from fresh or dried pods. its better to make it by "bleeding" fresh still growing pods. you can futher refine it into what they call "morphine base" or "cooked opium" as its also known, look for my other posts on this for more info.

[Emmajs]

Thank you Mr. Jim,you seem to be the best source of info I've seen.

[ironmics]

All of you are talking about alkaloid content in OPIUM, which yes is in the neighborhood of 10-15%, this has nothing to do with the morphine content in dried pods. From one preperation I've seen it looked to extract pretty pure opium from pods. The extract was around 1/6 of the weight of the pods. If this was pure raw opium and the content was morphine content was 10% then the morphine content of the pod would be around 1.5% of the total weight. However, I doubt that it is pure, my optimistic estimates would put the number closer to 1%. This person used about 50 grams of pods, so that would put his morphine output at 500mg....not too shabby.

Also the extracted "opium" is widely regarded as unsmokable. Swim has a lot of experience with smoked raw opium also, and enjoys oral opium much much more.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by ironmics

All of you are talking about alkaloid content in OPIUM, which yes is in the neighborhood of 10-15%, this has nothing to do with the morphine content in dried pods. From one preperation I've seen it looked to extract pretty pure opium from pods. The extract was around 1/6 of the weight of the pods. If this was pure raw opium and the content was morphine content was 10% then the morphine content of the pod would be around 1.5% of the total weight. However, I doubt that it is pure, my optimistic estimates would put the number closer to 1%. This person used about 50 grams of pods, so that would put his morphine output at 500mg....not too shabby.

Also the extracted "opium" is widely regarded as unsmokable. Swim has a lot of experience with smoked raw opium also, and enjoys oral opium much much more.

If extracted opium is generally regarded as "unsmokable" then how could i have done it? If you need mroe information on this i can easily provide it, you can also easily find it yourself just by using google. ACTIVE alkaloids also needs to be a certain pH level, you can google that also.

If you are meaning extracted opium as in "ive just bled the heads and now i have this purplish/brown/black crap can i smoke it?" then the answer would be both yes and no. first: the answer yes being, you CAN smoke that stuff but it tastes REAL bad, doesnt smoke well, and you have to use a rather large bit of the extracted gum. second: the answer no being, you are better off using the cooked opium method which most easterners have been doing for centuries anyway to produce what they concider to be smokable opium. using the "cooked opium" method you will produce very amber almost crytstaline flakes which can all be pushed into one big amer/black-ish ball if you wish, it takes a MUCH SMALLER amount of this when smoking rather than using the "raw" gum extracted strait from the heads. you can also do this method using dried heads. put the dried heads into a pot, put enough water in it to cover it, and leave it on a VERY light heat. you can al;so do this without heat but it takes longer but is a safer process because you loose less of the goodies. after you have "steeped" those heads in warm water for about an hour you will end up with an amber fliud (i will just put here to grind down the heads first before doing all of this, the smaller the particles, the more surface area extraction can take place on) strain off all of the plant material as this is now useless and put the amber fluid back in a pot, preferably something thats easily scraped out. put it back on a VERY light heat, (CANNOT BE BOILING OR EVEN BUBLING IN ANY WAY) just enough to evaporate the water content quicker. when you are left with a sort of amber sludge thats close to loosing all of its water content, take it off heat and let the rest of it dry naturally. if you have easy access try it and see, you will find that in no way am i wrong, smoking it is a more immediate hit than eating or drinking it, and its alot safer to do because you can control the doses easier, simple fact that i previously posted. heh. something ive done MANY times.

[ironmics]

Hey, didnt mean to offend, but be careful on the self incrimination. Swim just read a lot about putty being unsmokable which is why he's never tried it. On your second point, raw opium is pretty easily smokable and swim thinks it tastes really good. Swim's never cooked any of his opium and went through 3 grams in May-June, before he ran out of his source. I wholeheartadly agree that smoking is much safer and easier than eating though. However, eating produces much different effects for him. Smoking usually just results in a nice pleasant the world is alllllll riggggght feeling that only lasts up to 2 hours, while eating gives him an all day(up to 8 hours) more euphoric feeling. However, he knows his dosage pretty well so it becomes much easier to gauge how much he needs.

Great post by the way, but I was a bit confused by it. "Cooked" opium is morphine salt I always thought, which you reinforced in your first post. Then in your second you state that it's an ambery crystal, but morphine should be a white crystaline powder after cooking, not ambery. Right?

[allyourbase]

the "unsmokeability" of your poppy extracts is because theyve not been defatted.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by allyourbase

the "unsmokeability" of your poppy extracts is because theyve not been defatted.

SWIM has experienced no "unsmokability" in SWIM's experiments. heh. There is no need to "defat" something that only contains fatty acids and not fat. its a latex remember, and after SWIM's refinement it is no longer a latex at all (the grey/brown sludge that was mentioned is the byproduct) also, almost all plant fats are oil based and not water soluable, but one can make up their own mind there, or use google, he knows alot. im SWIM's 20 odd years experience in smoking opium SWIM was only disappointed in his early years until he traveled to asia and seen it done RIGHT. SWIM hopes this has been of help to people.
cheers.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Helpful post, makes SWIM want to try poppy smoking again

[keats]

As you said, samurai, it's a subjective value judgement, but SWIM personally prefers tea. As you mentioned in another thread (and I just posted agreeing) EXTREME caution is needed. But just like any other drug the key is starting slow and low, dosing carefully, and then once you find a reasonable starting dose go from there. If you can get it right poppy tea will fuck you up like no other, in the best possible way. SWIM has tried most every opiate and the only real comparison he can make is methadone, but SWIM would say poppy tea is more euphoric, and while methadone lasts even longer he'd say sometimes the methadone duration is too much, especially if you have shit to do the next day. More importantly poppy pods are easily obtainable online for a somewhat reasonable price, significantly less than the street prices of perscription painkillers these days. And once you get the hang of it making tea at home is simple.

All that being said SWIM has only smoked poppy pod opium once (he's smoked "real opium" more) and your post has made him want to try it again.

[samuraigecko]

i definably concur keats, SWIM tried the tea method and it is definitely a longer lasting effect (altho it is the immediate-ness and rush of that quick smoking hit that SWIM likes.) altho it was longer lasting for SWIM it also made SWIM's stomach a bit upset but that was no big deal for him, it was mainly how it creeped up rather than just hit, for SWIM's own personal preference he would rather a hitter that didnt last as long that a creeper that may last too long especially if one had things to do later on.

That said tho, SWIM thinks tea does definitely rock if one has nothing else to do that day. heh.

[vile_audio]

so then thereotically one could grind up 100 pods and seep in hot distilled h2o for 4-6 hours never boiling strain out the plant biomass, filter thru a sieve, evaporate the d-h20 to a volume of 100mls.

then the ph is made basic by addition of lime calcate the morphine will then preipitate out then this can bee rinsed with cold d-h2o then dried to bee smoked as morphine base?

[samuraigecko]

Unsure if "raw" morphine base is smokable, but in theory SWIyou are correct.

[Ididnotinhale]

Raw morphine is smokeable, but it's a waste. Swim has done it a few times, but it is never very effective. The nice thing is that chasing the dragon is always fun.

Many people have commented on the morphine content per gram of dried poppy. Swim would really appreciate it if someone could tell him the mg of morphine in the "average" large dried poppy. Or atleast the range.

I have looked everywhere on this site, but I have not been able to find an answer.

Thanks

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by yowhatupU

Raw morphine is smokeable, but it's a waste. Swim has done it a few times, but it is never very effective. The nice thing is that chasing the dragon is always fun.

When done properly it can be better than some of the street H that is out there. It is a hard technique to get used to . . smoking opium . . one is far better off making CFO or precipitating morphine out of the solution. This is all explained in the "improved guide".

Originally Posted by yowhatupU

Many people have commented on the morphine content per gram of dried poppy. Swim would really appreciate it if someone could tell him the mg of morphine in the "average" large dried poppy. Or atleast the range.

That is a hard question to answer as the range can be anywhere from 0% to 35% of dried weight material depending on condition / sub species / climate / etc. SWIM knows that is not much of an answer but if SWIyou look at the other threads then SWIyou will become familiar with the averages for each strain (sub species) in the Papaver somniferum range. A good thread to look at for this is the "botany and selective breeding" thread in this section.

It shows relative yields and ways to improve on them as well as data for separate sub species etc.

The base numbers would be as follows though . . .

Tasmanians: 30% dried weight on average.

Burma: up to 20% dried weight on average.

Indian: up to 20% dried weight on average although there is now a new strain available of "Indian white" which boasts a similar morphine content of the Tasmanians.

Most other varieties of P.somniferum have up to 15% dried weight morphine content in the PS. Some cottage varieties although still P.somniferum have almost no content at all.

Hope this has helped

[Ididnotinhale]

Thanks so much for the answer. I was expecting somebody to just say UTFSE.

[samuraigecko]

Originally Posted by yowhatupU

Thanks so much for the answer. I was expecting somebody to just say UTFSE.

HAHA . . .
SWIM never tries to be "just somebody" although he does agree that some do say that rather a lot.

[samuraigecko]

the original poster did ask about what ways / all ways. One would assume that this would also include latex.

As per range of Morphine in CPS this is easily found (concentrated poppy straw - ground up pods basically) and has been extensively talked about.

SWIM has had quite different ratios in his own extractions. An example would be CPS to CFO to Morphine HCl.

50gr of CPS can yield (for swim) about 10gr of CFO (quite strong) his CFO has been tested by a friend of his whom works in a chemical analysis lab. His Morphine range (although varied because of harvest / conditions / crossbreeding etc) goes up to about 33% which would mean about 3.3gr Morphine which also seems correlate with his data when he makes the Morphine HCl. He usually yields around 2 to 3 grams of Morphine HCl from CFO made from his strain.

Since the strain he uses is descended from the Tasmanian and the Burma through selective breeding (Mostly the Tasmanian though) and one can easily find data on the Tasmanian one can easily see that Morphine in the Tasmanian strain can reach upwards of 35% of TAC of Morphine (total alkaloid content). This TAC is the same as CFO (almost) except they are talking just pure alkaloids rather than some of the impurities that CFO carries with it. This would explain why SWIMs strain, though tested at 33% only produced 20% from the CFO in weight ratio.

Something needed to remember is that SWIM also loves high dosage Oxy and is opiate very tolerant so he bases the strength of things from that. His CFO is quite strong when made right and the appropriate dosages taken.

Hope this has been of help

[Ethyl]

You (or swiy) got some POTENT strain in there. That strain has 6.6% morphine in simple pods! WOW! You should comercialize that strain for the pharmaceutical companies to use as source for morphine by extraction from the pods bypassing the opium production phase.
Its kinda hard for me to believe in that.. Are you sure of your calculations?

Added: Contrary to samuraigecko opinion, this topic hasn't received the atention that it deserves... And i remember again that the topic is Morphine Content in Poppy Pod.

Samuraigecko: You tend to take over the topics.. take it easy..

[samuraigecko]

One believes he WAS talking about morphine content . . . that is the topic is it not? or did SWIM miss something?
Why commercialize it when it is already available at that potency?
SWIM has never taken over any thread. Has mostly started his own.
Since the threads are not all that active at times, SWIM makes helpful and concise posts. Ask around and SWIM is sure of what the response would be.

Sorry to have disturbed SWIyou . . .

[Ethyl]

the topic is about Morphine content in Pods. In opium latex most of us know the % of alkaloids, he was/is asking for % in pods, not latex.

You didn't disturb me, and that's not necessary a bad thing to "take over" threads...
Even tough i don't agree with you sometimes i kinda find your posts informative or with capacity for knowlage expansion thru discussion..

[samuraigecko]

SWIM sends thanks for clearing that up.

Determining the content of pods is almost impossible as most know. SWIM was using latex as a reference because the thread starter asked about different methods and SWIM thought it wise to mention for comparison.

So to answer the question definitively
Depending on tolerance etc, people can use anything from 1 to 10 pods of varying sizes. This is dependent on strain, conditions, harvesting method, ripeness of pod . . etc. SWIM knows this is an extremely broad range but then again so are the strains of Papaver somniferum and their relative morphine content per pod. Most will also know that the morphine content can vary from pod to pod from the same plantation and can even vary from pod to pod on the same plant (if it is a multi-pod variety like hens n chickens or Tasmanians). Definitely a hard question to answer appropriately.

peace.

[poppypreacher]

Poppy straw is defined as the dried poppy head with 10cm of stem, with the seeds and star removed and containing less than 0.2% water. This type of poppy straw is said to contain 040 - 0.60 % morphine by weight.

more info:
http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...5&postcount=27

[samuraigecko]

Poppy straw is defined as the dried poppy head with 10cm of stem, with the seeds and star removed and containing less than 0.2% water. This type of poppy straw is said to contain 040 - 0.60 % morphine by weight.

This is what SWIM means about impossible to determine. "Said to contain" and actual comparisons of certain strains of P.somniferum which are easily researched differ strongly.

Tasmanians as an example have been shown to have a high alkaloid content Vs dried weight with the Morphine production thereof being in the range of 25% to 35% of the alkaloids content in question. The same goes with Turkish strains showing around 15% to 25% of the total alkaloid production being morphine.