The Holy Grail of Opiates - Opinions?

[cz-one]

In the world of drugs there is the holy grail with each substance-the mythical peruvian flake cocaine,pink champagne amphetamine sulphate,original high grade colombian sensimilla,mdma powder,window pane lsd,and so on,its the one everyones heard about but few have seen or taken,what does swiy consider to be the holy grail of opiates-a stick of iranian opium? the legendary 'double uoglobe'golden triangle white heroin? or a pristine unopened box of 80mg oxycontins maybe? whats yours? and have you experienced any of these mythical and legendary drugs? i suppose swims would be the 500mg freeze dried diamorphine hydrochloride ampoule here in the uk,which i have seen but not tried,and swim would love to try that colombian white heroin you get in the USA,i wander if anyone else dreams of their well stocked pharmacists one day turning bad,handing you the keys and saying,"i'll lock up whilst you go for it,syringes or foil in the 3rd cupboard down!",then of course i always wake up!

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Good topic, thought provoking question that lead to a good thread.
	Sparked a great thread. I approve

[fnord]

IV fentanyl/diladid/morphine analogs mixed with a comfy chair and a smile

[Psych0naut]

Originally Posted by fnord

IV fentanyl/diluadid(hydromorphone)/morphine analogs mixed with a comfy chair and a smile

"Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

Now for SWIM, one of the ultra strong fentanyl analogs like remifentanyl, sufentanyl, carfentanyl and ohmefentanyl sound like the holy grail, though SWIM heard from many people that fentanyl seem to be less euphoric than semi-synthetic opioids and opiates, SWIM has tried fentanyl and found it less euphoric than semi-synthetic opioids. But the fact that those ultra potent fentanyls are so rare make them somewhat of a holy grail. But the real holy grail in therms of euphoria would probaply be IV hydromorphone or oxymorphone. SWIM has tried neither of them.

Reputation Comments on this post:

being hypocritical and rude, u mention fentanyl yourself, the dude mentioned hydromorphone in paranthesis after dilaudi...

[johnmlbn]

Originally Posted by Psych0naut

"Please always include the chemical name of pharmaceutical drugs in your posts. This can be easily obtained from Google or other search engine. Doing so will avoid confusion on this international forum. Thank you.

Now for SWIM, one of the ultra strong fentanyl analogs like remifentanyl, sufentanyl, carfentanyl and ohmefentanyl sound like the holy grail, though SWIM heard from many people that fentanyl seem to be less euphoric than semi-synthetic opioids and opiates, SWIM has tried fentanyl and found it less euphoric than semi-synthetic opioids. But the fact that those ultra potent fentanyls are so rare make them somewhat of a holy grail. But the real holy grail in therms of euphoria would probaply be IV hydromorphone or oxymorphone. SWIM has tried neither of them.

I used to get hydromorphone all of the time. I personally like oxs cooked down and shot up better. The hydromorphone is a stong rush but the effects are short term. Plus really bad itching and hot flashes. 20mg oxycontin and 6mg hydromrphone wonderful

[MrJim]

I think the new Opie Grail might be Oxymorphone.

[motherlove1973]

Swim get oxymorphone/opana from her doc and is not feeling them like she thought she should be. Is it true that some people don't have the right chemical in their bodies to utilize the oxymorphone? swim is semi new(3 weeks) and a lot of folks say to give it at least a month,and swim did just have the mgs. raised from 10 to 20 and with an added 5mg Ir,so that may help. swim does think she prefered the oc's she used to get,but she worries that now they would not be the same(after opana). Any thoughts?

[Pinkavvy]

The holy grail? Swip has come across the holy grails of all his drug desires.

As for weed ... his holy grail was indoor grown, organic, well taken care of, well cured, Lavendar from Medacino.

as for opiates ... swip was receiving full unopened pharma bottles of 100count 80mg oxycontins regularly... but that wasn't the holy grail. swip's opiate holy grail was 99.9%+ pure diacetylmorphine which he finally aquired last year. WoW.

as for cocaine ... 90% pure peruvian scales .... yummy

as for speed ... swip isn't into speed at all anymore, but his holy grail was pure shard cyrstal meth... which was acquired finally on one of his trips around cali ... came across a uni student that was making it in the school lab ... voom voom!

as for lsd ... swip was lucky enough to have lots of access ot acid for a long time, but his holy grail growing up and up until just a few years ago was to have a raw gram of cystal LSD ... which he finally got a couple years ago.

[MrJim]

SWIM left out Pure Diacetylmorphine. He has used that one before, although it was aquired through chemistry and extraction rather than simply being that close to the source. It was really the same thing as non-pure, he found. You simply did much less.

Reputation Comments on this post:

you said it all

[Laudaphun]

SWIM has wondered about this himself... Currently his opiate of choice would have to be either diacetylmorphine or oxycodone, depending upon route of administration... However SWIM does also like the burning intensity of a hydromorphone or morphine rush. In general the semi-synthetics seem the most promising to SWIM... SWIM has never had the luxury of trying oxymorphone and wonders if he ever will. Could this oxymorphone top them all if in pure form? SWIM also has no experience with any fentanyl analogs. Etorphine is the most potent opiate known currently, but it is usually only used in elephants SWIM thinks... SWIM feels that this is a tough question to answer because there are so many opiates out there and a lot of the highly potent ones are nearly impossible to obtain, but for most SWIM would think the holy grail would be pure 99.9% diacetylmorphine, pure hydromorphone powder that I've heard legend that pharmacies used to carry, or for the non-needle users, oxycodone. SWIM would really be interested to learn more of human experiments with etorphine, he's never heard of any. SWIM would like some opinions from experienced diamorphine users who have encountered an easily abusable form of oxymorphone.

[W!SE]

Originally Posted by Laudaphun

SWIM has wondered about this himself... Currently his opiate of choice would have to be either diacetylmorphine or oxycodone, depending upon route of administration... However SWIM does also like the burning intensity of a hydromorphone or morphine rush. In general the semi-synthetics seem the most promising to SWIM... SWIM has never had the luxury of trying oxymorphone and wonders if he ever will. Could this oxymorphone top them all if in pure form? SWIM also has no experience with any fentanyl analogs. Etorphine is the most potent opiate known currently, but it is usually only used in elephants SWIM thinks... SWIM feels that this is a tough question to answer because there are so many opiates out there and a lot of the highly potent ones are nearly impossible to obtain, but for most SWIM would think the holy grail would be pure 99.9% diacetylmorphine, pure hydromorphone powder that I've heard legend that pharmacies used to carry, or for the non-needle users, oxycodone. SWIM would really be interested to learn more of human experiments with etorphine, he's never heard of any. SWIM would like some opinions from experienced diamorphine users who have encountered an easily abusable form of oxymorphone.

etorphine is only used on elephants b/c one drop on human skin is fatal
google

holy grail ? although my friend has done opiates for a while now he has not done many diff ones... opium or H would have to be as good as it gets

swim loves his oxycodone tho.. something like 10% of oxycodone is converted to oxymorphone by liver i think

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by W!SE

etorphine is only used on elephants b/c one drop on human skin is fatal
google

holy grail ? although my friend has done opiates for a while now he has not done many diff ones... opium or H would have to be as good as it gets

swim loves his oxycodone tho.. something like 10% of oxycodone is converted to oxymorphone by liver i think

Etorphine is used on elephants only just as oxy80s and other high grade opiates are used by people who are not in chronic pain there have been a few who have taken etorphine and lived. If one drop is lethal, then dilute it.

But realistically only some very knowledgeable about the substance and had access to a very prescise balancw would attmpt such a thing unless they were crazy. Some countries have opiates that most of my country has never heard of. SWIM heard some earlier posts about some substanced which i for get but starts wth a k- and ends with a -one or -done

no offense but i google is not a convincing source for me unless it has a repuable academic journal postedl

[W!SE]

Originally Posted by Laudaphun

Etorphine is used on elephants only just as oxy80s and other high grade opiates are used by people who are not in chronic pain there have been a few who have taken etorphine and lived. If one drop is lethal, then dilute it.

But realistically only some very knowledgeable about the substance and had access to a very prescise balancw would attmpt such a thing unless they were crazy. Some countries have opiates that most of my country has never heard of. SWIM heard some earlier posts about some substanced which i for get but starts wth a k- and ends with a -one or -done

no offense but i google is not a convincing source for me unless it has a repuable academic journal postedl

right...well...considering swim had never heard of the substance until this thread, google was on point in saying that it's a strong opiate that cannot be fucked with... if swiyou wana talk percentages nd shit do some hw, apply for govt funding, and lets get the process started asap b4 google ruins anymore lives!!..the nerve of those..little

[car-ramrod]

Originally Posted by Laudaphun

SWIM has wondered about this himself... Currently his opiate of choice would have to be either diacetylmorphine or oxycodone, depending upon route of administration... However SWIM does also like the burning intensity of a hydromorphone or morphine rush. In general the semi-synthetics seem the most promising to SWIM... SWIM has never had the luxury of trying oxymorphone and wonders if he ever will. Could this oxymorphone top them all if in pure form? SWIM also has no experience with any fentanyl analogs. Etorphine is the most potent opiate known currently, but it is usually only used in elephants SWIM thinks... SWIM feels that this is a tough question to answer because there are so many opiates out there and a lot of the highly potent ones are nearly impossible to obtain, but for most SWIM would think the holy grail would be pure 99.9% diacetylmorphine, pure hydromorphone powder that I've heard legend that pharmacies used to carry, or for the non-needle users, oxycodone. SWIM would really be interested to learn more of human experiments with etorphine, he's never heard of any. SWIM would like some opinions from experienced diamorphine users who have encountered an easily abusable form of oxymorphone.

Sure about etorphine???

The 4"-fluoro analogue of the 3R,4S,βS isomer of ohmefentanyl is the most powerful opioid yet discovered, possessing an analgesic potency approximately 18,000-fold greater than morphine.

Check out ohmefentanyl on wiki....

Reputation Comments on this post:

	SWIM had never heard of this and thanks SWIY for bringing this to his attention as he finds this interesting
	I still don't buy info I find on wiki unless backed by a journal but still academic journals turn up some really interes...

[Laudaphun]

Originally Posted by car-ramrod

Sure about etorphine???

The 4"-fluoro analogue of the 3R,4S,βS isomer of ohmefentanyl is the most powerful opioid yet discovered, possessing an analgesic potency approximately 18,000-fold greater than morphine.

Check out ohmefentanyl on wiki....

Yes, at one time etorphine was considered the most powerful opiate/opiod, however now that we can get loperamide to cross the BBB, and can introduce polypeptides directly into the body, there isn't much you could tell me that I would doubt... At present I would not bet my money on any one particular opiate as being the strongest.

While you could be entirely correct, I still would not bet money on any information found on wiki as anyone can edit wiki. I've editted wiki myself so I'm anyone else on DF would be able to do so as well. The thing about etorphine is that the dosage range is VERY wide on the animals in which it was used. I do not know if the therapeutic dosage is this wide for all animals or if this is more specific to etorphine. If I recall, warhogs required something like 50 times the dosage than an elephant... would have to check an old post. There are other VERY powerful compounds that are largely unknown. For example acetorphine, which I am unable to find any concrete data on it's potency.

Something I might point out on wiki (or at least until someone goes in and changes it) is that it states that carfentanil is 10,000 times more powerful than morphine and 100 times more powerful than fentanyl, it goes on to say that this ohmefentanyl is 6,300 times more powerful than morphine and 28 times more powerful than fentanyl and than goes on to say that of the 8 stereoisomers possible for this compound, (assuming I understand this correctly) that an analog of 1 out of 8 of these... so that is an analog of an isomer of a fentanyl analog??? LOL that has be confused, but intrigued at the same time.

Like I said, I would not be surprised to learn that a fentanyl analog had been created that exceeded etorphine in strength, but so little research has been done on any of those "ultra-potent" opiate analogs. I do not believe that there have been any actual trials to pinpoint the dosage range of many of these substances. Dosages applicable in vetrinary practice would not necessarily apply to humans. By doses I of course refer to the mcg/kg amounts not the actual dose.

But hey, I'm all for applying for federal funding to study this flouro analog of one out of 8 different stereoisomers of stereospecific fentanyl analog you speak of or etorphine trials in humans LOL.

EDIT: on a serious note, the ohmefenanyl or ohmefentanil really does turn up a lot of VERY interesting stuff. I just spent a couple hours reading and found sufficient info that one could start a thread on the compound and it's 8 stereoisomers. I have yet to find any journal entry stating specific potencies such as the claim on wiki but will keep looking.

[Alicia]

Will always be Mother Opium for she started the quest no matter how u look at it. she is building block where all your other opiods come from.

Reputation Comments on this post:

hehehe, you naughty girl...

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Alicia

Will always be Mother Opium for she started the quest no matter how u look at it. she is building block where all your other opiods come from.

Yes, swim would agree. He finds himself always comparing other opiates to the opium high.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by cz-one

In the world of drugs there is the holy grail with each substance-the mythical peruvian flake cocaine,pink champagne amphetamine sulphate,original high grade colombian sensimilla,mdma powder,window pane lsd,and so on,its the one everyones heard about but few have seen or taken,what does swiy consider to be the holy grail of opiates-

It would have to be legal, easy to obtain anywhere, safe to use, highly enjoyable at reasonable doses, as non-addictive as possible (so occasional use would be the default), and self-limiting in terms of dosage.

Kratom? SWIM still has a fair amount left of the 8 ounces he ordered in July of 2006, and recalls last enjoying it 2-3 weeks ago. Perhaps it's time to crack open the jar again this weekend.

Holy grail? All SWIM can say is that he's a technical guy, and it fits the specs .

[Swing]

Swimmies personal favorite was the hospital grade hydromorphone vials that came in these neat lil packages ment for IV use... they were 2mg/mL and there was like 4 mL in them. Swims other holy grails were a cigarette box full of green beans (really really small grean 15 mg oxy's), assloads of cheap fentanyl patches to suck on ( great for when you have to spend hours with the family), and a partially full pharma bottle of 80's (swim still holds onto the bottle as a souvenair)... aww memories..... *smiles*

[enquirewithin]

One word: heroin. SWIM used to like the browm stuff when smoking, pharmacetical diamorphine when injecting.

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by enquirewithin

One word: heroin. SWIM used to like the browm stuff when smoking, pharmacetical diamorphine when injecting.

Rings bells with swia's patterns of use. she always preferred chasing other unknown purity's of heroin.

mmmm...

[oxalot]

Any opiate/opiod that can be slammed and is available readily will do. However SWIM can't ever forget the first H experience. It was very pure and very verywonderful. Wishes he could find some pure diacetylmorphine today as a matter of fact.

[wOrship]

Swim remembers very fondly being introduced to his first taste of 'H' in Tel Aviv long ago whilst in his travelling years by a mate from Northern Ireland, his intitial reaction was much like this >

Swim will also never forget the dealer who used to hang around opposite a pub on Allenby Street in the said town, on swims third visit to him he took swim aside and gave swim a thorough talking to about the realities of his addiction. Swim thinks he probably owes this man his life as swim was a moron at the time and was taught a great deal about the respect of opiates in that five minute conversation - Swim carried on with the 'H' but never forgot.

Swim returned home years later to find two of his old stoner friends dead and three more as habitual users, swim decided there and then not to make any street contacts back home and never did. Instead swim limited his opiate usage to CWE'd codeine and dyhdrocodeine every few weekends, that is the way it stayed for years, but swim always felt like he had lost his sparkling best friend and had to make do with a boring aquaintance instead.

To answer the 'Holy Grail' question, in swims limited opiate experience 'H' is his, but that may change - swim has just planted his first poppies - 10 Taz and 10 Afganistan Special from Iz. Swim intentionally planted a very small amount to start with but is greatly looking forward to trying homegrown 'O' for the first time ever!


W

Reputation Comments on this post:

	great first post Worship
	No wafferling at, very informative which always helps.

[ironmics]

My friend loves opium/poppy tea way more than any pharma. He smoked some for the first time tonight. He a tiny amount earlier this evening in a neighbors garden, and even in such a small amount he feels great with a nice cool breeze coming through his windows while he's nodding just a bit.

Kratom-Former favorite, but can make him pretty sick.
Poppy Seed Tea-With opium is his new fave. He uses a pound of seeds he gets bulk for very cheap at a time. Very Very comfy.
Oxycodone-Makes him kinda dizzy and weird feeling, not that fun.
Hydrocodone-Worthless
Codeine-Giggly and very functional while on.
Tramadol-Great pain killer and mood lifter, but no warmth
Darvocet-Makes him feel numb, decent
Morphine-Only has had IM and IV once, but he was in considerable pain both times.
Opium-Can't wait to smoke a larger amount.

[allyourbase]

morphine sulfate.

[nks]

What about the OC160s? Can't believe no-ones mentioned those?