Doing XTC - have some questions.

[CountChristoph]

SWIM is going to be doing XTC next saterday probebly for his last time , about 4 caps, which lasted him about 6-8 hours. But this time he is going to have weed.

1. Does weed mix well with E? and does it last longer or make it somewhat more intence?

2. How much water should SWIM drink over this time, SWIM is worried that he will either drink to little or to MUCH.

3. SWIM has just started taking effexor last week, is this dangerious?


Thanks!

[augentier]

There is a lot of information on the net and here on DF about drinking water on X..SWIM has found that just getting one of those big bottles of gatorade and sipping on that throughout the night works fine..she has also heard that drinking 8 oz. (1 cup) each hour while tripping is good..be sure to keep yourself hydrated throughout the day prior to the trip, too.

SWIM loves X with marijuana..it definitely strengthens the body high and the sensuality of the experience if that makes sense..also, she finds that smoking the day after rolling tends to bring back some of the body high.

[The Doors]

1) SWIM makes sure to always have weed with him while he is rolling. Not only does it make a more pleasant comedown, but seems to give more of a mellow feeling at the end of the experience and enables SWIM to relax and reflect on his experience. However, SWIM recommends that SWIY smokes during the comedown and not while he is peaking or really rolling, it won't do much and might actually reduce the effects of the trip (It's happened to SWIM before...) but while on the comedown it can seem to give a little boost. Anyways there is no problem with mixing weed and MDMA/Ecstacy.

2) SWIY should drink as he feels, but if one must know, between 500ml and 1L an hour should be good enough. Keep in mind that having some fruits, such as bananas, apples and oranges are also nice and refreshing and is one of the few things SWIM enjoys eating while rolling.

3) I can't help you on that one.

[trptamene]

I believe effexor is a SSRI:

Here is what the information is on mixing SSRI's and MDMA(taken from erowid):


People frequently ask whether taking anti-depressants can affect their MDMA experience in any way. The simple answer is that SSRIs (Prozac, Paxil, & Zoloft among others) may reduce the effects of MDMA. Other types of antidepressants include MAOIs, which could cause dangerous or even fatal reactions if taken with MDMA or other strong stimulants. Bupropion (Wellbutrin) alters MDMA's effects but does not appear to weaken the effects, however, the safety of this combination is not well documented. Tricyclic antidepressants, which may cause a change and increase in effects, are also not well documented.

Please also see:

Interactions between Hallucinogens and Antidepressants
Letter to the Editor of the NEJM about MDMA & SSRI's by Earth & Fire Erowid

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reduction of Effects

SSRIs tend to cause reduced physiological and mental effects when taken before MDMA. A study for which there was a poster at the College on Problems of Drug Dependence in June of 2002, administered 20mg Paroxetine (Paxil, a common dosage) orally to subjects for 3 days before administering MDMA. Subjects had reduced experiential and physiological responses to the MDMA. See http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=1388.

An important study by Liechti et al., concerning the effects of SSRI pretreatment on subjective MDMA effects in humans, administered Citalopram (an SSRI) at 40mg by IV and found that the Citalopram reduced physiological and emotional responses:


"The main result of this study is that the psychoactive effects of 1.5 mg/kg MDMA were substantially attenuated by pretreatment with the SSRI citalopram (40 mg iv). Citalopram inhibited most of the psychological effects of MDMA. MDMA-induced increases in positive mood, derealization and depersonalization phenomena, thought disorder, and the loss of thought and body control were all attenuated by citalopram pretreatment. MDMA-evoked intensification of sensory perception, changes in the meaning of percepts, and subjectively facilitated imagination were also inhibited by citalopram as compared to MDMA alone. Citalopram alone also lowered scores on some scales compared to placebo. Most of these changes, however, were clearly due to side effects of citalopram such as fatigue, headache, and nausea, which influenced the mood rating. MDMA also produced marked increases in emotional excitability and sensitivity that, however, were not reduced by citalopram."
See http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=392.

"We investigated the effect of citalopram pretreatment (40 mg i.v.) on vegetative and cardiovascular effects of MDMA (1.5 mg/kg p.o.) in a double-blind placebo-controlled study in 16 healthy volunteers. MDMA moderately increased blood pressure and heart rate, slightly elevated body temperature and produced a broad range of acute and shortterm side-effects. Citalopram reduced all these MDMA-induced physiological changes except for body temperature."
See http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=1073.
A further relevant study, from the Spanish group studying MDMA In humans, is:

Segura M, Farré M, Pichini S, Peiró AM, Roset PN, Ramírez A, Ortuño J, Pacifici R, Zuccaro P, Segura J, de la Torre R (2004) Contribution of CYP2D6 to 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) disposition in humans: use of paroxetine as a metabolic inhibitor probe. Clin Pharmacokin (in press).

As of Feb 2005 this study is still in press, but in a different paper Farre et al. state that the study shows that "...a reduced cardiovascular activity and euphoria induced by MDMA were measured in the combination treatment (paroxetine and MDMA)."

Finally, chronic use of SSRIs, as is done in the treatment of depression, seems to reduce the effects of MDMA. That is, a higher dose of MDMA is required to achieve the entactogenic effect.



So it seems that if this is SWIt's last time, he may be disappointed, but it may not be dangerous. SWIM would do much research before trying it, to see if there is any new information and/or studys out. Maybe try MAPS?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very helpful info!

[unconditionaldl]

SWIM and mostly all of his friends agree that smoking bud is great on e BUT smoking hash is not. SWIM loves hash but it tastes vile while on e.

[Bajeda]

^^^^^^^

Thats probably the specific hash. Most likely soapbar seeing as where you are listed as living.



To the thread starter, if you started taking Effexor I don't know if you would want to take MDMA. A friend of swim's was on effexor and took some and got practically all the opposite effects you would think. He was closed, irritable, unresponsive, seemingly paranoid, and just sat in a corner for much of the time. Wasn't especially fun. I would wait until you are off Effexor to try MDMA or any seratogenic affecting substances.


As to cananbis and MDMA, swim doesn't feel it while rolling. With MDA, yes, with weaker MDMA rolls, yes. A full fledged roll? He doesn't notice the weed at all. He just likes the taste, and spliffs heavily now to not waste weed or hash as he found he gets the same sensation from smoking 90% tobacco joints as smoking 90% weed joints while rolling hard. Most of swim's friends he started rolling with (and their dealers) agreed on this one, so don't know if others just aren't using as much MDMA or if they are somehow more affected by cannabis while rolling (tolerance factor perhaps??)

[unconditionaldl]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

^^^^^^^

Thats probably the specific hash. Most likely soapbar seeing as where you are listed as living.

Well, SWIMS tried a few different types of hash including pollem and soft black while on e and they both are also vile, is there any other swims out there that think the same?

[CountChristoph]

Thanks for all your replies!!
SWIM will most likely smoke after when he is coming down a bit.

Depends on how he feels.
So what alot of you are saying about mixing effexor and E is it will reduce the effects of the mdma, i havn't read anything on it being dangerious.

As long as its not dangerious SWIM is still going to be doing E on saterday.
Considering SWIM already bough the E awhile back.
If SWIM were to skip a dose the day he is going to roll and take the effexor later on when he is come down, maybe that would help?

Remember he has also just started 2 weeks ago.

[Nacumen]

Effexor might be the sweetest name ever for an SSRI.

Anyway, SWIM doesn't specifically know about Effexor, but bets that it may weaken the rolls, as it affects serotonin reuptake.

Let SWIY take his rolls, then have him come back and tell all how it went.

Happy rollin!

[FrankenChrist]

I just read that Swim was able to roll, even though he's on an SNRI. I had expected he would not.

SSRI's and SNRI's only start working after 6 weeks though, to attain the full effects in under three months.

If you're back OK again, you should still keep taking them for another 6 months, then ween off very, very slowly. Quitting these types of drugs cold turkey is the worst idea ever.

Also, without wanting to get preachy, these drugs are just a crutch. You have to change things in your life yourself. Get a creative, constructive hobby for starters.

Originally Posted by Nacumen

Effexor might be the sweetest name ever for an SSRI.

The side effects and withdrawal from effexor can be quite a bitch though.

Originally Posted by Swimster

uhh... Effexor is a brand name for the antidepressant Venlafaxine , in which, is actually a Serotonin-norepenephrine reuptake inhibitor or SNRI.

Confirmed.

[Swimster]

uhh... Effexor is a brand name for the antidepressant Venlafaxine , in which, is actually a Serotonin-norepenephrine reuptake inhibitor or SNRI.

[Nacumen]

Aye.

Effexor's effexorz are similar to those of an SSRI, but SSRIs dont affexor the body in exactly the same way as inhibiting norepenephrine and serotonin like Effexor; Effexor has more of an effexor than just selectively inhibiting serotonin uptake.


I... couldn't resist.

[CountChristoph]

ah....
bump

[CountChristoph]

Hey so SWIM did his 5 XTC caps last night.

The first 2 hours was boring, he didnt really feel anything, and he wasn't talking to any of his friends.

Than after 1 or 2 caps later he was rolling nicely. His friends were getting annoyed because he was talking to much!

The weed was the best part of the high... same for ciggarrettes

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by Nihara

Hey so SWIM did his 5 XTC caps last night.


Than after 1 or 2 caps later he was rolling nicely. His friends were getting annoyed because he was talking to much!

Bongo would be rather perturbed if he saw someone take 5 "caps" of such. He'd be taking the chimp's blood-pressure and pulse.

[CountChristoph]

I didnt take them all at once.

I did through out about 8 hours

Reputation Comments on this post:

Do not incriminate yourself. Read the rules.

[FrankenChrist]

No matter what you took in whatever time frame, taking 5 of anything is generally a bad idea.

[CountChristoph]

really? wow it took like 3 pills to even do anything.

[Swimster]

must be getting bunk then? Perhapps swiy is going to the same dealer each time, and possibly getting some low quallity stuff.(impure)

[FrankenChrist]

He said he was on effexor. He can only be sure if his friends didn't feel anything from one or two pills either.

[CountChristoph]

SWIM's friends felt alot from just 1 pill.
SWIM didn't

[Nagognog2]

Is SWIM on other medications?

[CountChristoph]

Yes SWIM started taking effexor a few weeks ago.

[Micklemouse]

Then taking MDMA/ecstasy on top is at best pointless, at worst dangerous. If SWiY are only a couple of weeks into the Venlafaxine the serotonergic effects will be minimal, but as the course progresses & dose increases so does the level of serotonin reuptake inhibition. Add a serotonin booster like mdma, or any other major stimulant, on top & the chances of an adverse reaction (search on Serotonin Syndrome) also increase. Some people do find they can have a reasonable effect from mdma when on reuptake inhibitors, but it is nothing compared to the effects without, & is often accompanied by an increase in the purely stimulant side of mdma, rather than the empathogenic side.

Do not discontinue Venlafaxine for the sake of a pill, unless SWiY has decided to discontinue it anyway. It is not a med to be messed around with.

[Nagognog2]

There is further information on SSRI's and MDMA - as well as other drugs - available. Use the search engine.

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