Oral use - phenazepam: Experiences and Information

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

SWIM is curious if anyone here has contrasted the effects and general pharmacokinetics/dynamics of Rohypnol (flunitrazepam) and phenazepam. He would be very interested to hear such a comparison.

They definitely both sound like "recreational" benzodiazepines (i.e. those that have a mix of effects people consider feels like 'a good high' rather than 'just more relaxed', particularly at higher doses - Xanax is a notorious example).

Phenazepam isn't reported to have specific hypnotic effects like Rohypnol... does it?

[snapper]

SWIM did not mean to compare the two. SWIM was merely pointing out that the withdrawal is hell. SWIM disagrees that diazepam is not recreational. SWIM loved it, esp. mixed with heroin. SWIM used the two daily for well over a year.
Roofies are rohypnol (probably more similar to phenazepam), which brings to mind another concern. Every date-rapist is going to be all over this one. It was truely devestating for SWIM when GHB and GBL became controlled, and it was because of rapists. This correlation may bring lots of unwanted attention to those ordering. After all, possessing GHB in the US automatically makes one a sex offender.
SWIM did not find a Dr. due to residency and money issues and tapering did not help - SWIM decided to just get it over with after tapering for a few days. Also, phenazepam withdrawals, if they even exist, could easily be treated with another benzo. Just because it is stronger and longer lasting, does not mean that other longer-lasting benzos like klonopin would stave off withdrawal symptoms.. Anti-seizure meds are also easy to get. SWIM wished SWIM had thought of the latter. SWIM thinks SWIM had several seizures during withdrawal from benzos. SWIM started to experience muscle twitching and confusion, then blacked out, then woke up with extreme muscle pain, lost bowels, stuff around SWIM broken and a headache from hell - oh, and all the withdrawal symptoms too...
SWIM is making a point to hopefully prompt some to think carefully about their usage of this product.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by snapper

Roofies are rohypnol (probably more similar to phenazepam), which brings to mind another concern. Every date-rapist is going to be all over this one.

Does SWIY mean date-rapists & phenazepam? It's possible, but it would have to have the right combination of effects. If phenazepam has few or no hypnotic (sleep-inducing) effects, SWIM finds it an unlikely candidate as a date-rape drug.

"Just" amnesia effects probably would not be enough, as they can be unpredictable and not everyone is equally susceptible. Otherwise, lots of other benzodiazepines would suffice too, as they generally have no taste (or taste vaguely sweet) and many could be mixed into a drink without a person's knowledge.

Also, phenazepam withdrawals, if they even exist, could easily be treated with another benzo. Just because it is stronger and longer lasting, does not mean that other longer-lasting benzos like klonopin would stave off withdrawal symptoms.. Anti-seizure meds are also easy to get.

True, but "the elephant in the room" is dosage. SWIYomeone who just let themselves go could achieve fantastic, almost inconceivable dosage and tolerance levels due to the combination of high potency, huge dosage lots and cheap per-dose price. If they did, they could still be tapered with another benzo, but who's going to prescribe bottles of 1,000 tablets so they can do it?

Not to mention, why would a doctor necessarily believe their "phenazepam story?"

True about anti-seizure medications, of course. It wouldn't be a guarantee against death (catatonia + autonomic instability could conceivably do it as well) but would certainly go a long way.

[snapper]

SWIM doesn't mean that it would be a good date rape drug, but it is a great criteria by which to prohibit it.
Anyways, chloral hydrate used to be sold by all the long gone US research chem vendors and it never received any media coverage. Probably because it wasn't recreational...
Time will tell, though. It sounds like from initial reports that at higher doses, phenazepam could be sedating / hypnotic.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM doesn't mean that it would be a good date rape drug, but it is a great criteria by which to prohibit it.

Anyways, chloral hydrate used to be sold by all the long gone US research chem vendors and it never received any media coverage. Probably because it wasn't recreational...

Time will tell, though. It sounds like from initial reports that at higher doses, phenazepam could be sedating / hypnotic.

SWIM thinks it would have to get quite a bit more popular to catch the eye of the DEA... ISO as long as it's just a couple small vendors or so selling the stuff, it's unlikely to happen.

But really, ANY benzodiazepine that got a bit too popular and the authorities discovered was legal would likely be prohibited. And most all RCs too, for that matter. SWIM doubts anything unusual will happen with phenazepam (at least in terms of getting banned), but agrees that time will tell what course this substance will take.

[radiometer]

I know hardly anything about the molecular structure of benzodiazepines. Wouldn't phenazepam already be technically illegal in the US via the Analog Act?

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by radiometer

I know hardly anything about the molecular structure of benzodiazepines. Wouldn't phenazepam already be technically illegal in the US via the Analog Act?

Possibly... it would have to be intended for human consumption (necessary to fall under the act). There's also a bit of potential confusion about whether only Schedule I or II substances qualify. The whole thing is controversial and has proven difficult to prosecute under (so SWIM has read anyway), which is probably fantastic and the way it should remain forever .

[Nagognog2]

Bongo has test-piloted the phenazepam. @1mg & 2mg. It is what Bongo expected: Like diaxepam @5mg & 10mg. Nothing that would suggest a conservative 16 year old Bongo would spread his ass for Reagan. But he wouldn't have on Rohypnol, either. Bongo tried that, too.

But Bongo is a bad candidate for such tests. It is a powerful benzodiazepine. He'd place it around the same camp as diazepam (Valium). If one is likely to be lured to continued use of diazepam - steer clear of this. It's dangerous and can hurt you very badly. No shit.

As something to put away for potential use in emergencies - regard dosage as 1mg = 5mg diazepam. Soluble in ethanol/water.

Be Careful! Okay?

[cosmicruler]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Bongo has test-piloted the phenazepam. @1mg & 2mg. It is what Bongo expected: Like diaxepam @5mg & 10mg. Nothing that would suggest a conservative 16 year old Bongo would spread his ass for Reagan. But he wouldn't have on Rohypnol, either. Bongo tried that, too.

But Bongo is a bad candidate for such tests. It is a powerful benzodiazepine. He'd place it around the same camp as diazepam (Valium). If one is likely to be lured to continued use of diazepam - steer clear of this. It's dangerous and can hurt you very badly. No shit.

As something to put away for potential use in emergencies - regard dosage as 1mg = 5mg diazepam. Soluble in ethanol/water.

Be Careful! Okay?

SWIM is confused.....SWIY state that 1mg is = 5mg Diazapam, where swim have read elsewhere that 0.5mg = 5mg Diazapam????
Also above swiy have stated that Phenazepam is both water and alcohol soluble, but swiWAS says that it is neither water nor alcohol soluble...????
Can some1 please ellaborate????

How did you measure SWIN dose ?????

has any1 else tried this yet????

[Jatelka]

Off topic, but for reference:

Benzodiazepine withdrawal seizures are extremely resistant to anti-convulsants. Generally speaking the only thing that stops them is... A benzodiazepine!

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

Off topic, but for reference:

Benzodiazepine withdrawal seizures are extremely resistant to anti-convulsants. Generally speaking the only thing that stops them is... A benzodiazepine!

Does SWIY have any idea why they're used so often in rapid in-patient hospital detoxes (Tegretol, usually)? SWIM would think they must work, otherwise these rapid detoxes should be failing and people having serious problems. He's not especially up on how either benzos or anticonvulsants work in the brain though, so he'll see what he can find on this stuff.

[lulz]

I'm curious, if the half life of phenazepam is about 60 hours, why is the therapeutic dose split into multiple daily doses?

[Nagognog2]

Due to perception of effect by patient/user.

Ever study half-life regards radio-isotopes? Amazing what most people thinks it means.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Ever study half-life regards radio-isotopes? Amazing what most people thinks it means.

Not at all, I'll direct my research in that direction. Thanks.

[snapper]

That's also a serum half-life, not necessarily reflecting the duration of action of the drug. It could only be active during peak levels at recommended doses but remain in the blood / body to some degree for a long time. Klonopin is similar in this way, and as an aside has some of the worst withdrawals of any benzo. Good rule of thumb is the longer the half life, the longer the kick. Another common drug with a half-life longer than its effects is THC.

[Nagognog2]

I reiterate: Be damn careful! It's seductive. And it can kill you with small effort. Toss in storage - it's not recreational, unless a hospital bed is recreational.

[RoboCop]

Heres the post mentioned above written by someone.

Swim Is the one who eyeballed this substance. The single dumbest action swim has yet to do. Slept for 2 days straight and was bannanas for an additional 3 days. That is 5 days that were a complete haze to swim. Swim is absolutely scared of the stuff now and tossed it into storage to never be used again.

I agree with nagognog's advice. Its way to potent. Swim felt like he was not intoxicated the whole 5 days, but obviously was beyond control.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Thanks for posting this: Helpful to have it confirmed

[Laudaphun]

Ok, I've got a question regarding this substance. I'm pretty sure I saw this particular substance listed as an "intermediate", or maybe it was a "pharmaceutical intermediate". This would mean that it is a precursor for something right? I was under the impression that it was just another strong benzo. Does anyone know why it would be listed as an intermediate and if so what would it be a precursor or intermediate of?

[allyourbase]

this compound looks a lot like clonazepam....where clonazepam has an no2 phenazepam has a bromide molecule...can anyone's labrats compare the two? swim will be trying this chemical soon, and is interested in possible effects. it bears an even closer resemblance to lorazepam...in fact the two are closely related, lorazepam has a chlorine while phenazepam has the next halogen up bromide...

[fingerbib]

Lorazepam has a hydroxy group in the 2 position I believe, where phenazepam has nothing. Lorazepam seems to be slightly more potent than phenazepam, so I suppose either the lighter halogen or the polar hydroxy group (or the combo) account for the increase in potency. I'm thinking the hydroxy group in lorazepam is what gives it its shorter duration? I've gathered that most people regard lorazepam not so recreational, yet clonazepam fairly recreational. I'm interested in hearing which phenazepam more closely resembles. Anyone know if benzos with halogens or nitro groups on the attached benzene tend to be more recreational (as in which is better, if there is such a trend?)? Can any experienced benzo users say to which benzo phenazepam is most similar? Is it hypnotic?

[allyourbase]

yes, its most similar to ativan. it is highly hypnotic.
this stuff is excessively potent for recreation. one 2.5 mg is about equivalent to 4 mg of ativan. the problem with this stuff is that it just wont stop. you have fun on it, pass out, then at any point in the day youre knocked back into full intoxication. swim personally had severe movement/dysphoria problems, often days after a dose.

[Psych0naut]

Originally Posted by allyourbase

yes, its most similar to ativan(lorazepam). it is highly hypnotic.
this stuff is excessively potent for recreation. one 2.5 mg is about equivalent to 4 mg of ativan(lorazepam). the problem with this stuff is that it just wont stop. you have fun on it, pass out, then at any point in the day youre knocked back into full intoxication. swim personally had severe movement/dysphoria problems, often days after a dose.

Lorazepam is a anxiolytic, not a hypnotic.

[snapper]

So, any new reports about this ?
SWIM was considering acquision but the lack of reports make it difficult to determine if it is worth it. How long are the effects, how recreational are they, how useful are they in smoothing out a trip, and has anyone ventured into lower doses with less duration of after-effects?
Nag - report indicated that Phenazepam lasted about as long as diazepam or had equivalent effects ? Was the duration not as long as reported by others ?
Also, what solvents are best for volumetric dosing ? Is vodka sufficient ?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Even if lorazepam is officially an anxiolytic swim has found it most definitely has hypnotic properties.Phenazepam is highly suggestive to swim but swim is going to ignore those suggestions because it sounds like due to its very nature and swims nature it is a disaster waiting to happen.

[radiometer]

Should a time come when he has no access to alprazolam or diazepam, maybe my buddy Eddie will type up a review. Otherwise he's considering it a collectible. It just doesn't sound very promising at all for practical use, which is the only use to which he puts benzodiazepines.