Oral use - phenazepam: Experiences and Information

[lulz]

aka 10-bromo-2-(2-chlorophenyl)- 3,6- diazabicyclo[5.4.0]undeca- 2,8,10,12-tetraen-5-one

has anyone had experience with this benzo?

SWIM is considering ordering some, but he'd like to hear some personal experiences before he does

[Abrad]

SWIM has not yet sampled this but it is apparently fully active at sub-milligram level. Meaning a decent scales combined with volumetric measurement is a must.
Be careful with this one...

Reputation Comments on this post:

thanks

[Nagognog2]

Indeed. One report flew in of someone who eyeballed the molecule. Said to have spent 2 days flat as a pancake. Great caution is advised.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Most benzodiazepines are minimally water-soluble... anyone know about this one? If it's insoluble, measurement using a liquid solution may not be possible, or accurate.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Bio-Cellular Enigma

As a harm reduction measure: If anyone does end up eyeballing, 0.5 mg is like a light dusting on the tip of a finger, with no observable depth to the coating. Not too far away from visibly non-existent. SWIM would wait at least an hour before concluding that re-dosing was necessary.

As a harm reduction measure I'd say that if you have to be eyeballing the dose - from both lack of proper scale and being too lazy to go for volumetric - you probably shouldn't be using this substance, or any other one that requires such a tiny dose.

Please, just don't do it. Eyeballing a dose that small is a good way to ensure you get to be rushed to a hospital in an ambulance.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Bajeda

As a harm reduction measure I'd say that if you have to be eyeballing the dose - from both lack of proper scale and being too lazy to go for volumetric - you probably shouldn't be using this substance, or any other one that requires such a tiny dose.

Please, just don't do it. Eyeballing a dose that small is a good way to ensure you get to be rushed to a hospital in an ambulance.

SWIM concurs, while pointing out the point of harm reduction (to reduce harm due to the stupid behaviour of people who do things like fail to use a scale with sub-milligram chemicals).

Anyway, SWIM was told this is sold in bulk doses (as the bare chemical rather than in pills, which he had already figured out from earlier posts). He wonders if the substance would even "keep" long enough for any sane person to ever finish using what they purchased. Given the amounts and potency involved, this is as concerning an offering SWIM has ever encountered, and he's actually glad he posted that earlier "harm reduction" information.

P.S. SWIM had a few other musings and concerns after reflecting on this, but will leave it at that... some things are better left unsaid.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Bio-Cellular Enigma

SWIM concurs, while pointing out the point of harm reduction (to reduce harm due to the stupid behaviour of people who do things like fail to use a scale with sub-milligram chemicals).

If you take a substance like phenazepam and use the 'lick your finger' method, harm reduction isn't up to you anymore. You have thrown away your ability to control what happens and left everything to fate. I'd rather not leave it as an option at all.

[bob_arctor]

Originally Posted by Bio-Cellular Enigma

Anyway, SWIM was told this is sold in units of 5,000+ doses (as the bare chemical rather than in pills, which he had already figured out). He wonders if the substance would even "keep" long enough for any sane person to ever finish using what they purchased.

Even if most of it is flushed down the toilet of those 5000+ doses, it's still insanely cheap. Another problem to add to the sub-milligram activeness..

[Abrad]

This substance is reportedly soluable in alcohol with a little heat and some stirring.

Eyeballing a dose that small is a good way to ensure you get to be rushed to a hospital in an ambulance.

I concur, DO NOT eyeball this compound.

[AuraithX]

One of my mates has just ordered this substance. He has a scale accurate to .001g but even then most scales have an error of -/+ .001g. Not really significant when you're weighing out chemicals like 2cb/2ct7/etc but I don't know how he's gonna weigh out the 0.5mg dosage for Phamazepam.

100mg in 100ml water? (99% alcohol is not available in the UK)

[Abrad]

^^Tell your friend to use vodka.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by Abrad

^^Tell your friend to use vodka.

It's soluble in alcohol then? Thanks. I actually came back to this thread to ask if phenazepam is water or alcohol soluble.

To the poster above Abrad, I recommend visiting Holland and Barrett and purchasing one of their liquid plant extracts, some of them come with a calibrated dropper. You can wash out the contents (or pour them into another container), fill up the bottle with vodka as Abrad suggested, and if you do the math correctly you'll be able to properly measure out doses.

This at least is the easiest method SWIM knows, seeing as it's not easy to come across graduated pipettes in Ireland.

[Abrad]

It's soluble in alcohol then?

Reportedly so.

I recommend visiting Holland and Barrett and purchasing one of their liquid plant extracts, some of them come with a calibrated dropper

Oral syringes are available from any pharmacy. They are accurate down to (at least) .5ml.

[lulz]

Originally Posted by Abrad

Oral syringes are available from any pharmacy. They are accurate down to (at least) .5ml.

What kind of reason might one give for requiring an oral syringe? I know a valid reason isn't necessary, but SWIM gets really frustrated by the frequent suspicious looks and tones of voice he gets when simply asking for Neurofen Plus. Apparently he looks like a stoner.

[Abrad]

Measuring out any liquid medicine. There is no reason any pharmacist would suspicious of somebody buying them. They have no illicit use that I am aware of.

[lulz]

OK cool, thanks. SWIM is a pretty bad liar.

[bob_arctor]

Originally Posted by lulz

aka 10-bromo-2-(2-chlorophenyl)- 3,6- diazabicyclo[5.4.0]undeca- 2,8,10,12-tetraen-5-one

has anyone had experience with this benzo?

SWIM is considering ordering some, but he'd like to hear some personal experiences before he does

SWIM has used this substance numerous times. When purchased it came pre-cut with some sugary powder at a ratio of 1/10, which was nice for easier getting the correct dosage.

Next time SWIM purchases some it will probably be a larger amount in it's pure form, and as already has been discussed strategies for diluting it will be used. It is a useful and highly active benzodiazepine with a long half-life

A story to illustrate half-life, and how this might affect a person if "taking too much, man, too much": Recently, a friend of SWIM reported that unknown amount of the substance had been nasally administered at the tail of after a powerful and problematic br-dfly-trip. This apparently happened at a stimulant-party where phenazepam was available, but to SWIM it is unclear if this was the cut substance or undiluted.

Tragic mistake. Friend of SWIM showed up unannounced at SWIM's door in a state akin to temporary psychosis several times that week, disinhibited and amnesiac. After a week SWIM's friend had come out of the constant phenazepam clouds and was able to explain more clearly what had went wrong during the br-dfly trip and so on, to the relief of SWIM who had begun to really worry after a couple of days.

Well
SWIM isn't really a benzo-connoiseur/addict, but appreciates that it is always useful to have a good anxiety-reducer for those moments. It is more readily available than diazepam, oxazepam and other desirable substances, not a controlled substance where SWIM live.

The effects are quite satisfactory, both in the muscle-relaxing and tension-easing bodily department as well as inducing contentment and reducing anxiety. Dosages used have been between 0,4 mg-2mg.

Reputation Comments on this post:

shares good information,

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Bajeda: Fair enough, SWIM is convinced... he deleted his initial post, and would be fine with the quote in post #5 going away too. No point with the original gone, unless SWIY wanted it to remain for some reason.

SWIM would not necessarily agree with a previously expressed sentiment that it would always be useful to have an anxiety-reducer around. Some people, some cases, particularly with benzodiazepines. He notes there are other anxiety-reducing substances, though admittedly none as rapidly and universally effective. SWIM's earlier post in the "drug myths" thread about the extremely high safety of benzodiazepines keeps coming to his mind every time he reads this thread, and he feels confused and humbled .

[sam o]

Does anyone want to guess to it's detection threw drug tests and screenings? a positive for benzo's perhaps

Later.

[clint]

Originally Posted by sam o

Does anyone want to guess to it's detection threw drug tests and screenings? a positive for benzo's perhaps

Later.

No need to guess, Sam; phenazepam IS a benzodiazepine therefore any test designed to detect their presence will do so with that particular drug.
SWIM's on Xanax himself but had not touched any benzo except phenazepam for several weeks, going through bad patch with money and could not afford to cash in script; doc gave SWIM a spot test, the standard one used by most docs, for presence of opiates - he had used only oxycodone for roughly the same period, they were trying to catch him out using heroin or morphine (strictly forbidden under terms of contract with doctor) or something similar. The results came back as negative methadone, negative amphetamine, negative cocaine, NEGATIVE OPIATES, and POSITIVE BENZOS. What was to be expected if he had in fact been using his script and nothing else. Except things which don't show on those particular piss tests like Soma and Phenergan. So they assumed that indeed oxy and Xanax were being taken as prescribed. Oxycodone for some reason does not show as an opiate because there is NO codeine or morphine involved in its manufacture, only thebaine, which the standard piss test does not recognise as opiate.
But phenazepam is a benzodiazepine, a true benzo, and thus can not be expected to show as anything else.
It has been noticed by one with experience of phenazepam that its effects alter with dosage. At 1mg-2mg it is an excellent anti-anxiety agent, particularly good for those who suffer panics, and experimental 5mg dosages make it an hypnotic. Effects are indeed like diazepam at the lower dosages, but more like flunitrazepam or flurazepam at the 5mg level. I have not seen a table including this drug for equivalence, but would assess it as being like 1mg=10mg diazepam, and 5mg=2mg flunitrazepam or 60mg temazepam. The half-life has not been seen listed anywhere either but a Russian report on a batch which has been seen by the writer has it as c.50 hours, similar to the high-end of clonazepam. The comparison with flurazepam and flunitrazepam is therefore a bit misleading in terms of half-life, those two being the hypnotics which have by far the longest half-lives of any.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

It seems very likely it would show up in a general screening for benzodiazepines, given that it is one.

SWIM would neither acquire nor use this substance, and here's why: If something happened and he ended up using larger-than-expected quantities, he believes he would be incredibly vulnerable to AGONIZING DEATH if his supply were interrupted, or he ended up stranded somewhere without it.

Convince a doctor SWIM's high-dose benzo the doc never heard of that he got from a "chemical supply place" on the Web got cut off, and he needs lots and lots of Xanax or clonopin to taper? Even doctors who don't laugh much would probably get a kick out of that one. Then what?

[Laudaphun]

SWIM agrees with SWIB...
From what SWIM has read this is not scheduled or regulated in Europe? Is it also not scheduled in the U.S.? Or is it considered an analog? SWIM has never heard of this particular chemical before and there doesn't seem to be much info out there about it.

[Nagognog2]

It could well be the DOx of the Benzodiazepine Family. I'm quite certain (being cynical helps) that we'll be hearing about casualties - either O.D. or extreme addiction - in the coming days. Considering it's price and lack of screening to purchase, it's a pending disaster waiting around the corner.

People with a propensity to say "Oh fuck it, a little more can't hurt!" - are STRONGLY advised not to seek this one out. I know several people off the top of my head who, if I found them having this chemical in quantity, I would grab it from and flush it down their toilet on the spot. That's assuming they weren't already addicted.

Keep an eye on your friends, people.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

It could well be the DOx of the Benzodiazepine Family. I'm quite certain (being cynical helps) that we'll be hearing about casualties - either O.D. or extreme addiction - in the coming days.

Given benzodiazepines are typically difficult to O.D. on by themselves (at least to the point of death, unless phenazepam is an exception), SWIM suspects it would be extreme addiction - which in the case of benzos is probably the worse of the two options. An O.D. would be a quick and painless death, extreme addiction would probably mean an unpleasant-to-agonizing death.

There is a ray of light - if someone with an extreme addiction to phenazepam was thoughtful enough to acquire an anticonvulsant such as Tegretol (prescription-only, but unscheduled and not too hard to get), chances are they would at least live if their supply was cut off. Suffer like hell, but they would probably live.

People with a propensity to say "Oh fuck it, a little more can't hurt!" - are STRONGLY advised not to seek this one out. I know several people off the top of my head who, if I found them having this chemical in quantity, I would grab it from and flush it down their toilet on the spot. That's assuming they weren't already addicted.

Keep an eye on your friends, people.

SWIM couldn't agree more. He would actually even go further and say it would just be safer not to have phenazepam around at all, period. It's not so difficult to acquire "normal" benzodiazepines (in a much more reasonable quantity, and in pill form that discourages extreme dosing) that SWIM wouldn't first visit a few doctors and ask if he could have something for anxiety.

[snapper]

SWIM kicked a really high dose roofie and diazepam habit (when living is Europe decades ago these were available easily). SWIM still recalls this as the WORST withdrawal SWIM has ever been through. SWIM could draw the analogy to being plugged into a wall socket for 6 weeks. Super high blood pressure, constantly on the verge of a seizure and anxiety beyond anything imaginable. SWIM had kicked heroin immediately prior to this, and that was cake compared to it (it still sucked, but not nearly so bad).
That said, SWIM knows better than to use benzos with any regularity. They can be useful in the right circumstances...