Intresting Drug Called ( BZ )

[desperado]

I recomed you 2 watch movie Jacob's Ladder

I did lots of research on Net about this drug
Its crazzy

Here some info from Erowid WebSite
very intrsting

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/bz/bz.shtml

[desperado]

Sorry i think i posted this in wrong section

[Alicia]

Its a very interesting deli-rant, bear in mind Jacob's ladder is a film and does tend to over do it slightly. but since you mention the film.

Jacobs Ladder - Dance scene
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgkI_...elated&search=

Jacobs Ladder - Hospital scene (very freaky and kinda cool)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?search=...&v=lCZN60mBeaQ

Jacobs Ladder - Deleted scene a cure from the ladder
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfMjo...elated&search=

^^ whats in the pipette he gives jacob i wonder? be interesting to see what Nag thinks of this.

[Paracelsus]

Let me sum it up before Nag sees this thread:

BZ is a deliriant hallucinogen (anticholinergic). Known to cause EXTREME experiences of the datura-style. It might sound fun, but it ain't.

BZ was tested at Edgewood Arsenal (they tested thousands of drugs as potential chemical warfare agents). It was found to be ideal to incapacitate users for 3 days and more. The US Army used it as a chemical weapon in Vietnam.

It might sound "crazzy", but not in the good way. Deliriants tropanes are known to decompose brain tissue and cause permanent insanity, although due to lack of data we don't know if this happens with BZ.

I am not overly concerned though, because I don't see how one would obtain BZ.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good looking out

[fastandbulbous]

BZ is not something anybody would actually want to consume after reading it's psychopharmacology. 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate is the top of the heap of the Ditran series of anticholinergics (N-substituted-3-piperidols). While not as physically toxic as their natural counterparts (atropine, scopolamine etc), they do retain their mindfuck quality & 3 days of it from a milligram dose of BZ sounds about as horrible as it gets.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good looking out

[bob_arctor]

Some interesting stories from Ketchum on the R U Sirius podcast

"James Ketchum, the psychiatrist who was at the center of U.S. military research into BZ, LSD, and other deliriants and hallucinogens as potential incapacating chemical warfare agents, joins us to talk about his self-published memoir: “Chemical Warfare: Secrets Almost Forgotten.”

http://www.podtrac.com/pts/redirect....sirius-088.mp3

[Nagognog2]

I've been in contact with Dr. Ketchum and have a signed edition of his book. Enjoying reading it slowly. He's asked me to write him a review when I'm done.

But as was said above "before Nag see this" - I'll not add anything further.

[nanobrain]

ooh i'll have to get this one!

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Jacob's Ladder, excellent movie... the effects purportedly produced by the drug do not sound quite so pleasant (either to watch or participate in).

[Felonious Skunk]

Yeah.

BZ is the "thinking man's" Jimson weed...

[nanobrain]

^and we all know that no thinking man would self-administer Jimson weed...

but i wonder sometimes what the extent of the compound library and catalogued effects at places like Edgewood, mythical compounds of the JB-11x series...

[Nagognog2]

Dr. Ketchum is very forthcoming and loves to talk, Nano. He was there while all this went down, and his book is a wealth of data and anecdotes - as well as photos. If you bought same, drop a note with the order about talking with him regards the JB-x series. I think he's a lonely, old government spook-doctor! You can make him talk! LOL.

Jacob's Ladder is a nice fantasy - but of no help to actual researchers into the amazing molecules.

As an aside - did you know they tried using VX nerve-gas as an antidote to BZ? And visa-versa?

[nanobrain]

^wow! well that almost makes a twisted kind of sense, chemicalwise, (anti)cholinergics are some weird agents, to be sure.

cant even imagine what it would be like to be a patient underging such treatment, whichever versa..

[Nagognog2]

Wasn't patients. Was volunteers who (extra pay in the ARMY) came to Doc Ketchum's House-O-Strange for a 3-Day re-grooving. Rubber-Room. Padded-Walls. Padded-Nurse. Padded-Doctor...

Interestingly enough (as grounds to buy his home-brewed (forward by Shulgin) book), the volunteers often signed up for another ride on the BZ. Perhaps talking to Alice was better than marching about to get ready for Vietnam.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Jacob's Ladder is a nice fantasy - but of no help to actual researchers into the amazing molecules.

For what it's worth, SWIM finds "Jacob's Ladder" more valuable than that; to him, it's a meditation on the subject of death, and not too shallow either; very rare for Hollywood. The only other (Hollywood) movie he's found that approaches it is "Dead Man Walking," and that in a much more shallow way. But the fact remains (as SWIY stated) that it still doesn't help researchers investigate anything...

[Felonious Skunk]

<SWDS (Someone Who Doesn't Stink) heads down to the basement to cook up a molecule that will make Ketchum talk...>

[chAos]

lol, i have never seen a drug which seemed as much as a tool to torture people (according to the effects on erowid)

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

As long as we're on films, that brought up a line from "Dracula" (1979, John Badham). "If I could send you to everlasting, burning hell, I would!" - (Laurence Olivier (spoken with his usual melodrama) as Prof. Van Helsing, to Dracula). Sounds like just the drug to do it.

[Nagognog2]

How did we get from BZ to Vlad the Impaler? Who is still considered a hero by many in Romania. Seems a minor difference between slipping someone an anticholinergic that makes a person see strips of bacon lining the floorboards, and some guy who dealt with thieves by pushing sharpened poles up people's assholes and out their shoulders in the town square. Though I can think of a few politicians who could stand a dose (of which one - I won't say).

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

How did we get from BZ to Vlad the Impaler? Who is still considered a hero by many in Romania. Seems a minor difference between slipping someone an anticholinergic that makes a person see strips of bacon lining the floorboards, and some guy who dealt with thieves by pushing sharpened poles up people's assholes and out their shoulders in the town square. Though I can think of a few politicians who could stand a dose (of which one - I won't say).

gee golly gosh, if i cared i wondered whom they'd be, with there dizzying opinions, in that case BZ for the masses..

[fastandbulbous]

Though I can think of a few politicians who could stand a dose (of which one - I won't say).

Lets not be greedy, give them both at the same time!

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by fastandbulbous

Lets not be greedy, give them both at the same time!

You'd love the book, F&B. By Dr.James S. Ketchum: Chemical Warfare - Secrets Almost Forgotten. The only difinitive tome I've run across.

[fastandbulbous]

I've got a UK documentary recorded from the tv called 'Bad Trip to Edgewood' that has him and several other army doctors talking about giving soldiers acid, PCP, BZ etc. Some of the trials involved frankly stupid amounts of drugs - one soldier was given 100x the effective dose of LSD (10mg of LSD - for fucks sake, you'd never recover properly from that).

Thanks for the book ref though, I might just go on a book hunt next time I'm in the major city near wher I live

[nanobrain]

i forget, is it still stockpiled as a CADW by US?

[psilocybonaut]

Jacob's Ladder was a great movie, no one spoil the end. Yeah, BZ was used in the Vietnam war as a gas to incapacitate their enemies (gas inhalation is possible because the dose is so small, like a milligram or something).

But basically it's an anticholinergic/deleriant, so its effects are not much different than those of Belladonna (Deadly Nightshade or Hells Bells), atropine, or scopolamine. Basically it drives you insane, and has no recreational potential at all.