How often, how few times to prevent damage

[INSANEPOOKIE]

Just curious here; as I am with pretty much all drugs.
Even though this question may have a varied range of answers there must be an average that one could list as a possible dosage and how frequent one could use and not harm the body.

How often, assuming the human is of average build and no overall health problems, could a male/female (if the answer would vary) use Meth and not suffer from long term physical damage? I'm not interested in any form of mental addiction, just the actual long term physiological damage.

[Cakes]

SWAN snorted 1/4 gram per 36 hours for 3 months
all good until the day the teeth started to ache.
quit cold turkey.
no further problems.

SWAN injected 1.5 grams 12 hours once a month
no problem.
probably could do it every two weeks.
probably could do double the amount each time.

various unregular prolonged binges draw themselves to a close even if given no help. no problem but problem forseen if a sufficient intermission/recovery period isn't given. SWAN forsees the problem because of how the body feels. SWAN can tell if they feel healthy or not (so far).

[dogzz]

swim's found the tolerance to meth varies greatly from person to person. From both the effect per dose, and the long-term effects from use over time.

[~lostgurl~]

The question here really isn't the dose or frequency of methamphetamine use, but the addictive nature of the drug which will sneak up on even the most careful user, and once it does, all limits one sets themselves go out the window. The best advice SWIM can give is to not even go there to begin with, otherwise there will be consequences and they will be negative.

Edit: SWIM is talking from personal experience and also from what she has seen happen to everyone she knows who smokes methamphetamine. Of course every person is different and SWIY may be one of the few that can do controlled use of meth, but SWIY wont know if that is you until you give it a go. It is a huge risk and the best thing you can do before making this decision would be to research the f**k out of it and ask questions like the one asked in this thread.

The only people that seem to find controlled use easy are the ones that can't afford to get a regular habit and also have high enough morals to not resort to criminal activity to support their habit.

[stoneinfocus]

For swim meth isn´t addictive at all, and I think the consequences are rather cosmetic, although they´re subject to be exaggerated ad absurdum by institutes and health professionals, that you acutally think you´ve broken hell to become lose within your body and meth use.

Amphetamine use, as a lifelong fact, seems to implicate a cell-metabolism, that is very reluctant to uncontrolled replication (like the fight and flight plan induces rather apoptosis of unnecessary cells or a status-quo, than that it favours duplication-rate) as well as there´s no evidence of any severe negative effects in lifelong users, or shortening of mean-lifetime, if this was it, what you were up to.

[Cakes]

ha ha. right on co-incidence. It kills me how somegurl or anybody can tell me that everything I know is impossible.

"nope, i'm sorry but everybody i know lives in the south. therefore, no one has ever lived in the north like you say you are from."

[allyourbase]

cosmetic? you call your brain slowly being eaten away by dopamine cosmetic? the issue with amphetamines is not "what will they do to my skin?" its what will they do to my nuerons? what will they do to my vascular system? one use...just one use...is enough to cause mild cellular damage to your braincells...Im not saying it should be avoided like the plague, but dont go fooling yourself into thinking for a moment that having a clear complexion after use means its not doing damage somewhere.

and its lifelong not livelong....

Reputation Comments on this post:

i've been working on the railroad, all the LIVELONG day...

[Cakes]

I put the words "so far" into my post to denote that yes, no one knows everything and unexpected things can happen.

An enlarged heart can feel like tiredness.

An aneurysm is usually a birth defect.

and who said anything about being fooled by clear skin?

If you have some real medical info or advice, then go for it, build a text. but don't dump little bits of unhelpful info around to scare the kiddies. The original poster already has made it clear he expects significant deviations to be possible, he's just looking for some hard data to work with.

I do see some lifes and nuerons getting destroyed by meth. It is the people who have huge post counts and hang out in forums that discuss chems they don't like. Their immersion in such subject matter and topics is probably unhealthy. At the least it is a waste of their forward motion. I think that in order to preserve their health, they have GOT to find some lives of their own to live.

want a link to the na chatroom?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Just because poeple tell bad things about a chemical you like doesn't mean you have to insult people. People read these ...

[dogzz]

So, swiy does not consider heart attacks, or strokes caused by blown aneurisms severe damage? Swim knows personally several deaths, a few with diminished capacity due to stroke, and a relative, amongst others that have enlarged hearts to the extent they are on the transplant list. ALL due to meth use. Swim hisself escaped many years of meth use without a lot of damage, but there is some. The key words in cakes reply are (so far) Just because swiy feels healthy does not mean damage is not occuring. People do not "feel" high blood pressure, or an aneurism, or an enlarged heart for that matter untill it is too late. Swim would also like to say again that the effects vary greatly on person to person. What might seem like a daily maintenence dose for some, will stop the heart of another.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good

[stoneinfocus]

One can consider, the damage done by meth, is rather less than that tha´t s done by the same dose of L-pseudoephedrine on the body, CNS and certain brain-regiions excluded as that´s meths / annies bonus)

I hardly see any meth user drilling holes into their skull and injecting their daily dose as a "per Kg bodyweight" for 75% of their lifetime, to see what damage is being done.

Yes, you -might- get depressive, after stopping (which was never the case in swim), yes, some people die while using meth, probably some partially because of it and -yes- there´re combinations with other drugs, that greatly amplify the risks of cardio-vascular risks and damage, like caffeine/coffee.

But there has to be some sense and relation, if you say your brain´s eaten-up .. I say, the dopamine wil return to normal and it´s rather cosmetic, and I´ve never seen any users of speed, and I know a lot, that are those that I´d call "psychotic" or "depressive", moreso the opposite, like creative, leading positions and open-minded, tolerant, cool and some rocket-men, intellectuals.

I could say alcohol eats up a billion braincells / per being drunken once, big deal (ok, it´s not the dopamine, but nonetheless, same analogy).

And I´s consider, that a substance, prescribed to kiddies, that´s just too cool for adults that need it for achieving something, that´s a good 100 years old and used without any major concerns, except of being used according to the substances undeniable other properties, other than indicated, which pissed some peeps off in the seventies, is rather soemthing usable or usefull, than raging death.

The problem with the "epedemic" Meth-use as a plague, is, as I see it more a social problem, swim wouldn´t deal his live (in which he uses meth, pep, and all drugs known to men) for a addiction or a binge where it should not bee taking place... maybe it´s more the trailer home inhabitants that use meth big time, unemployed, TV-addicted, (formerly *g*) overweighed, without being taught how to teach themselves an without a major cultural interest or implications.... ? -just a guess ;-)

In fact, meth saved swims live, as he, for the first time in his life realised, that all of his problems came from the untreated asthma he had and could breath for the first time ( he "treated" his asthma with cigarettes, mj, just to do -something- about it, although it ony got worse / did hardly anything, of course, then he went depressive after 10 years of misachievements in his most important time of his youth)..
he stopped smoking, got himslef a decent asthma-therapy, that the fascist docs and his fascist "parents" denied him... and guess what -> excessive corticosteroids made his bloodpressure go up and you do realize a high blood pressure by a limp dick, and decent loss of power, so he reduced corticosteroids, added aromatizable anabolic steroids and some meth and his bloodpressure and sex-life is just fine again.

You see the relation? -to swim, meth use is just a fly on the windshiled, that most are pointing at, after a car colliding with a train. (the train, being a hereditary condition, that would have caused death/injury by eg: meth, intense sex, a marathone, a psychosis, that better breaks out earlier than later, you get swm´s point)

[Cakes]

You have my agreement on most of that, co-incidence, but are you actually buying into the bigbrother mentality too? are you offering up some of us as being trailer park trash?

because we aren't and we never will be. No matter if we live in trailers or watch tv all day or if we do not contribute to culture in ways that SWIM can see. It doen't matter if we are unemployed or overweight. It doesn't matter if we are intellectual or if we know how to USTFSE.

none of it matters. we will never be less. and we will never be the fodder that some ego driven mills may initially assume must exist.

I liked the part of the post that said meth can be a health benefit. SWAN also encountered that aspect of it. Once upon a time, she had a problem getting off seroquel. She was appalled to discover such difficulty and extremely relieved when she was able to dump it after just one meth session. She didn't expect that result but it was great and probably one of the most fortunate things to ever happen to her.

Thanks for the tip on a way to detect high blood pressure!

and for the swimmers who may not know about trailer parks,
here is one story:

SWAN's house payment is $229 USD a month.
it's 2400 sq ft plus garage
and has a view of more than 420 sq miles.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Cakes

I liked the part of the post that said meth can be a health benefit. SWAN also encountered that aspect of it. Once upon a time, she had a problem getting off seroquel. She was appalled to discover such difficulty and extremely relieved when she was able to dump it after just one meth session. She didn't expect that result but it was great and probably one of the most fortunate things to ever happen to her.

Very interesting... the two substances are sort of diametric opposites in the way they work. If someone asked a biochemist to come up with a drug that affects human beings in ways exactly opposite to methamphetamine, the end result would be something very close to Seroquel. That doesn't explain why SWIY was able to stop using it following a session with meth, but it's still interesting.

[stoneinfocus]

Originally Posted by Cakes

You have my agreement on most of that, co-incidence, but are you actually buying into the bigbrother mentality too? are you offering up some of us as being trailer park trash?

because we aren't and we never will be. No matter if we live in trailers or watch tv all day or if we do not contribute to culture in ways that SWIM can see. It doen't matter if we are unemployed or overweight. It doesn't matter if we are intellectual or if we know how to USTFSE.

none of it matters. we will never be less. and we will never be the fodder that some ego driven mills may initially assume must exist.

I liked the part of the post that said meth can be a health benefit. SWAN also encountered that aspect of it. Once upon a time, she had a problem getting off seroquel. She was appalled to discover such difficulty and extremely relieved when she was able to dump it after just one meth session. She didn't expect that result but it was great and probably one of the most fortunate things to ever happen to her.

Thanks for the tip on a way to detect high blood pressure!

and for the swimmers who may not know about trailer parks,
here is one story:

SWAN's house payment is $229 USD a month.
it's 2400 sq ft plus garage
and has a view of more than 420 sq miles.

thanks swan for questioning ) no, I don´t buy into it, but TV with its moving pictures has the geratest influence on humans as a media, besides what´s being told by a voice in the background you can condition the masses with the opposite with what´s going on on the screen and many other nice things of manipulation comes to swic-i´s mind.

I didn´t want to disrespect any kind of humans, but that´s just the way negative conditioning is applied.... and the movie "spun" came to mind, which involved of the most irrealistic and grosse myths pictured as the truth ( like injecting with spit, meth users may look cute, but in fact are evil rapists that you can never trust, the dumb majority will get and kill you, meth usre´s are the lowest under-class scum, etc. .. you get it) ... .

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice post

[INSANEPOOKIE]

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my inquiry.

I do see that I should have perhaps added questioning to specify the possible nerological, organ, etc... damage, as that assists in directing the conversation a wee bit.

When they are able to over and over and over validate there is some form of damage (as in can't be repaired without a translate or ever) from what is considered a normal dose that one typically needs to benefit from the drug; that is when possible intervention may be needed. Please note that I refer to a normal dose as there have been multiple studies where they friggen overdose the poor mammals (that being the worse crime there is of humanity) and use that as PROOF the drug is bad. That's silly and illogical.

It appears that I need to read even more about mmmmMeth. I'll stick to my joggers/bikers high, though.

NOTE: I'm all for humans killing themself off sooner than later. We could lose 6 billion and still survive.

Also to mention that my lack of interest in the psychological addiction is soley based on the fact that the mental, to me, is more of a human flaw and failure. Hmm is it wrong to desire nearly always feeling good? I suppose not so perhaps failure isn't the correct word usage.
I do of course understand that Meth, along with many other drugs may be SO lascivious and/or euphoric that it is borderline to the point that the majority of the population needs to keep their hands off.

If you watch that Primetime special "Ecstasy Rising" the female at the end who was previously abusing XTC refers (I forget exactly what she stated) to how great it made her feel and how she never wanted to lose that feeling. That is her problem and not the drugs.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice post

[Cakes]

It's not a "fault" to want to feel good, it's more like a beautiful character trait.

If anything is at fault, maybe it would be that we don't have more and better drugs?

[stoneinfocus]

these studies are nearly always biased, as they´re showing a "neurotransmitter depletion" which is just representing an phenotype, that is residing on the low side of neurotransmitters, or vice versa.

Of course there might be damage, but if someone told you, drinking beer kills millions of brain cells or taking a sniff of amylnitrate?

Would you now look at all those, who drank alkohol, as some longterm brain-damaged monsters?

I guess not and it´s always how you handel a condition and if it´s to your advantage or not., who knows, maybe these effects are exactly what the user soughts after and it looks just bad on the paper a little, but might not have any negative effects to the subjects life at all.... in the end we´re all free, aren´t we and will do what comes to our mind, in the end.