Toxic Piperazine Misconception

[skuddo]

I'm writing this post because there seams to be a rampid misconception that just because Piperzine its self (the precursor to recreational piperzines) is an insecticide then they all must be usefull as one. This is not the case. Piperzine is a usful as one because it causes the relese of a GABA related chemical that limits the amount of synapses in the CNS, enough this and you'll stop breating. Most recreational piperzines have the oposite effect on the GABA recepter, which gives them there stimulent effect. The only one that seams to have the negative effect of piperzine is PFPP.

if any one ellse has any information on this please do post it.

[0utrider]

viagra is a piperazine, so i'd assume if it would be really bad for your health they wouldn't have approved it

[Nagognog2]

I think most of the bad press (underground) piperazines get is for one simple reason: They Suck.

Reputation Comments on this post:

thats a good one nag

[Thirdedge]

Originally Posted by outriderx

viagra is a piperazine, so i'd assume if it would be really bad for your health they wouldn't have approved it

Approval of medicines is based on money, not safety. Many are extremely dangerous. Viagra use has been connected with blindness amonst other things.

[snapper]

SWIM agrees with SWINag -piperazines all suck so far and likely have consequences to use far beyond the initial dose. SWIM has tried most of them and found all except BZP scary. BZP is a decent, short buzz at lower doses, but the hangover, toxic effects and unpredictable interactions with other drugs not worth it. Piperazine is not particularly toxic and is a old-school dewormer with a background of medical and veterinary use. BZP and friends do not have this data...

[Swimster]

Approval of medicines is based on money, not safety. Many are extremely dangerous.

LOL...
swim might use this as his signature.

[Pomzazed]

Personally, someone's firecat would stay away from piperazines for a while due to the firecat had an mcpp poisoning :/

[0utrider]

how come?

[jux]

MIF has sampled both a combination of meopp mcpp tfmpp and meopp alone and would not classify the effects toxic by any means...at least at low doses. MIF thinks people get carried away with dosages and thats where the problems come in.

MIF said the effects were fairly mild at the dosages he took (rushes, light visuals, etc) but the side effects most people describe were almost nonexistant. on the other hand, MIF hasn't found them interesting enough to warrant further research (for now anyways) but again, he wouldn't consider them toxic... hell, anything has unwanted negative effects at a high enough dose....

[Thirdedge]

Originally Posted by jux

hell, anything has unwanted negative effects at a high enough dose....

Cannabis, LSD, Magic Mushrooms to name a few have none or very little toxic effects, even at high doses. Basically the user can feel free to consume whatever their mind can handle. The same can not be said for Piperazines where toxic side effects begin alongside quite low psychoactive effects.

[jux]

all those drugs you mentioned definately have unwanted negative side effects at high enough doses ...maybe not "toxic"...but i dont think piperazines can be classified as toxic either..

at the doses recommended by the manafacturer MIF got no toxic side effects...none. the worse side effect he felt was a slight stomachache which wasn't even as bad as the one he gets from mushrooms or cacti (and meopp alone didn't upset his stomach at all). i am sure that some experiance worse effects from low dosages (everyone's body chemistry is different) but calling them toxic, which basically implies a poison, is a bit of an overexageration....

in any case, it doesn't really matter all that much to MIF...like i said he found them to be uninteresting (but not toxic) compounds...and i'll just leave it at that..

[chemicalkid]

SWIM thinks they are rather enjoyable.

[Zaprenz]

Comparing piperazine to sustituted piperazines (like BZP) is like comparing aspirin to benzene. (Asprin contains a benzene ring)

Big misunderstanding by the media.

Still there are two sides to this, calling BZP a harm minimisation solution isn't really backed up by that much evidence. [This applies even more to legal highs which don't list ingredients!]