US barred from thailand drug reprisal

[fnord]

http://nationmultimedia.com/2007/05/...l_30033483.php

The United States is prohibited from retaliatory action over Thailand's decision to ignore patents on some expensive American-made drugs, a senior Commerce Ministry official said yesterday.

World Trade Organisation rules protect Thailand from US trade action over the move, the official said.

The government invoked compulsory licensing on some expensive HIV/Aids and heart-disease drugs using WTO rules, the source explained.

The official, who asked not to be named, said the government could lodge a WTO complaint if it determined the US had downgraded Thailand's intellectual-property-rights rating over the drug issue.

Thailand is now on the US priority watch list, a level lower than in previous years, meaning Thailand will be closely monitored for intellectual-property-rights violations.

The downgrade comes with associated cuts in tariff privileges on exports awarded under the Generalised System of Preferences.

Many believe the downgrade was a response to the compulsory licensing.

The source said the government had followed WTO rules and the US was forbidden to take tit-for-tat action.


aww dosent it make you feel sad for the big pharm companies?
good for thialand!why does the us care about this?MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY,our government is run by the componys that are loosing money on this and thats the ONLY reason they care.

[Shiacmkmleer]

Yes Fnord it actually does. I do feel sad for them. More over I feel sad for us. You know what big pharm companies spend most of the money they make on? More research. You think that guy in Thailand manufacturing the drugs out of a local warehouse is researching the cure for cancer? So now the money that would go toward research is letting some scum in Thailand buy extra hookers. Also note that big pharm companies give A LOT of free medicine to the third world (another place pharm companies profits go).

[fnord]

Originally Posted by Shiacmkmleer

You know what big pharm companies spend most of the money they make on? More research.

more research = more products
more products to sell = more money

plain and simple pharm. corparations arnt out there (just)for the well being of humans,if so they wouldent be putting pills on the market that they KNOW cause problems in the pataints that take them,then try and cover up/falsify records saying that they knew that drug-x caused problems in their clinical trials.

[enquirewithin]

Originally Posted by Shiacmkmleer

Yes Fnord it actually does. I do feel sad for them. More over I feel sad for us. You know what big pharm companies spend most of the money they make on? More research. You think that guy in Thailand manufacturing the drugs out of a local warehouse is researching the cure for cancer? So now the money that would go toward research is letting some scum in Thailand buy extra hookers. Also note that big pharm companies give A LOT of free medicine to the third world (another place pharm companies profits go).

I feel sad for people dying because they can't afford to buy over-priced drugs from US companies. The new military government in Thailand is nothing wonderful but they are right about this issue and deserve nothing but praise for standing up to the US. They also know the amount of damage that US financial policies have done to their economy in the past. I feel sad that some Americans think that all foreigners are 'scum' who spend money on 'extra hookers.' What about the US government?

[lulz]

Originally Posted by Shiacmkmleer

So now the money that would go toward research is letting some scum in Thailand buy extra hookers. Also note that big pharm companies give A LOT of free medicine to the third world (another place pharm companies profits go).

Aside from the blatant racism in your statement, there is so much wrong with what you said I barely know where to begin.

First of all, pharmaceutical sales in the US and Europe account for 70% of global sales. Thailand isn't even ignoring all drug patents, they are only ignoring the patents on a small fraction of products.

Second of all, the pharmaceutical industry is profitable beyond the most obscene dreams of avarice. Here are some figures:

In fact, year after year, for over two decades, this industry has been far and away the most profitable in the United States. (In 2003, for the first time, the industry lost its first-place position, coming in third, behind "mining, crude oil production," and "commercial banks.")

The most startling fact about 2002 is that the combined profits for the ten drug companies in the Fortune 500 ($35.9 billion) were more than the profits for all the other 490 businesses put together ($33.7 billion).[12] In 2003 profits of the Fortune 500 drug companies dropped to 14.3 percent of sales, still well above the median for all industries of 4.6 percent for that year.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17244

So not only are we talking about a tiny amount of lost revenues, but they will be lost revenues from some of the wealthiest companies on the planet.

Thirdly, it's completely untrue to claim that those lost revenues will translate into less money spent on research.

The pharmaceutical companies only spend about 15% of their revenues on R&D:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmac...ustry_revenues

In fact as a percentage of revenue, the profit margin of the top ten American pharmaceutical companies is consistently higher than the amount they spend on R&D. By comparison, they spend at least twice as much on "marketing and administration".

The claim that lost revenues from patent violation will lead to less funding for R&D is a bald faced lie. The only reason they made such a big deal about this is probably because under copyright law, you have to agressively protect your intellectual property to have a valid claim on it's patent.

[Shiacmkmleer]

Well I was going to try and stay out this because lord knows political discussions never go anywhere positive. But accusations of racism have brought me to post in this thread again.


First of all you source a book review. It in turn sources other places but its source is subpar. But let us assume what it says is true. A drug companies spend more on research than they earn in profits (you said 15% spent on R&D vs the article says 14% profits.)


Second of all the second source you site also says this “Pharmaceutical companies often offer much needed medication at no or reduced cost to the developing countries “ (not to say it didn't say a lot that was negative toward drug companies)


Third of all how if someone comes up with a medication why aren't they allowed to make as much profit as they can off it?
Moving to Each hit's post Frankly you are wrong

the problem is that our world is gradually being controlled by fewer and fewer people, leaving many behind in the process. this is not a new concept. in an ecosystem with limited resources, there will be a fight to survive. there will be haves and have-nots.

England used to be controlled by a king and a small group of noble men while everyone else lived in poverty. Egypt used to be ruled by a king who claimed he was god. The pie is A becoming bigger and B being shared by more people [yes the rich who have most of the pie try to stop other people from getting a piece but time and time again they have been unsuccessful]


Lastly. The drug companies are out for one thing to make a profit. They are not a charity. They develop drugs only because it is profitable to do so. They invest money only because they want a profit. If you cut off their profits they will no longer develop drugs. And Nationalize them? What the hell when has the government ever done anything well in this nation?

[lulz]

I'm not going to get into a flame war about this, but I want to clear up something you just said in your first point. That wasn't a book review, it was an article contributed to a magazine called the New York Review of Books. The author, to list her credentials, is a Senior Lecturer in Social Medicine at Harvard Medical School.

The thing is though, I just don't understand why anybody who doesn't benefit directly from the pharmaceutical industry would want to defend their operations. Fine, what they do is legally justifiable, but morally? Not so much.

[Nagognog2]

Geez...what a broad-minded vision. Some scum buying hookers...not making drugs affordable for the good of one's nation and people? But scum and hookers...

I can imagine the outcry if the situation were reversed and Thailland had a drug that cured old-age - and wouldn't let the Americans have it: "Bomb them dirty slopes! Nuke 'em! Nuke 'em!"

[Shiacmkmleer]

igh: Negative Rep for trying to explain how the system works... The thing is the people making these drugs in Thailand aren't selling them to Thailand's poor (although that is the Thai government's intent). They aren't trying to help the poor and downtrodden; the disadvantaged of the world. It's not that we refuse to sell these drugs Thailand it's that the rich people in Thailand and other surrounding nations want to pay less for these drugs. If a Thai company produced a drug that cured old age people in the USA would buy it from the drug companies. Actually they wouldn't because the patent laws in Thailand allow the government to seize patents. Ever wonder why despite the cheap labor pharm companies don't set up research station in nations like Thailand and Brazil?

[fnord]

and do you have sources for this statement that Thailand is selling them to other country's?preferably not sources form a pharm company or the bush admin?

[Shiacmkmleer]

Originally Posted by fnord

and do you have sources for this statement that Thailand is selling them to other country's?preferably not sources form a pharm company or the bush admin?

Since this law just came into effect I can't find any source of it going on in Thialand however when India allowed its companies to violate Patent laws they started to export it. There a lot of article on it this is the first one I could find http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=1448ff73-6bfe-4c3a-854f-bc4dc9c5af57&ParentID=669c8c29-88d4-43e3-b471-2f967448c967&&Headline='Indian+patent+for+AIDS+dru gs+would+harm+millions'
Note India may think about enforcing internation patent laws as noted in this artcle which could get interesting.

[enquirewithin]

Brazil to break Aids drug patents

Brazil says it intends to break patents on commercial anti-Aids drugs as part of its battle against the disease. The head of Brazil's Aids programme, Pedro Chequer, told the BBC it was the only way it could afford to keep up its anti-Aids strategy. Mr Chequer said Brazil would make copies of up to five drugs next year. Correspondents say Brazil has often threatened to produce drugs without the permission of the company holding the patent, but now looks set to do so. Under World Trade Organization (WTO) rules, a nation can break drug patents if there is a national emergency. Brazil currently makes eight of the 15 drugs it offers in its anti-Aids cocktail, which is free to those with the disease.

It's all a big agreement to keep developing nations hostage to the multinational industry-- Pedro Chequer. Head of Brazil's Aids programme

Mr Chequer said that next year, the country hoped to be producing 12 or 13 of the drugs. He did not say which patents would be broken. "At the moment it is not easy because we are spending lots of money on acquiring drugs from multinationals. That kind of situation is unsustainable," he told the BBC's Brazilian service. "Brazil's programme will not be sustainable as long as we don't have self-sufficiency in the provision of drugs."

Costs soared

In a separate interview on Tuesday, he accused major drug companies of collaborating to "keep developing nations hostage to the multinational industry". Brazil began free drug provision in 1997 in an attempt to prevent the spread and impact of the disease among its young and sexually active population. About 150,000 Brazilians receive free treatment - out of only 350,000 throughout the developing world. The number of Brazilians living with HIV has remained at about 600,000 for several years. But the cost of foreign imported drugs has soared, from about 50% to 85% of the Aids programme's cost.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4059147.stm

[Nagognog2]

Sure. And when Thailand's government stopped open advertisement by American tobacco corporations a few years ago - the US government responded by threatening to launch an economic boycott against Thailand. Effectively crippling that nation. The Thais had no option other than to have Max Camel and the Marlboro Man smiling down on the streets and schools again.

Good for the Thai Military. More power to them. And fuck American pharmaceutical corporations. Nationalize the bloody lot of 'em.

[enquirewithin]

Good for the miltary junta-- this time anyway! Anyone who thinks that Big Pharma cares about anything but profits is very naive. The WTO should help poor countries but it does not. It protects the interests of developed countries.

[fnord]

i hope other developing country's take India example of this and start up simmiler programs in their own country's like Swaziland which has over 33.4% of its population infected.

[Triple7]

I am sure that corporates in USA break a lot of patents. USA is the one doing wide industrial spying on other nations. Does USA give patents as easily to foreigners than to their own people? What country has the strangest patent laws? Isn't that some kind of protectionism?

Hookers are also humen. Thais and Brazilians are humen. What if I said, that Thais and Brazilians break the patent laws, so that Americans won't afford to travel as much and then buy sex? Wouldn't that be narrow minded?

There are theories (which I believe in) that aids originated from USA. It's the americans that gave aids to the world, americans gave aids to the thais and to the brazilians. First nation to have HIV bloom was USA, not the nations in Africa. If you can find statistics, see for yourself.

Besides, if USA really wanted to stop the spread, then they would also invest into the outside world, since helping the outside world is as well helping USA itself combating HIV. What I see here, is pure imperialism.

USA = United States of Aids.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Triple7

I am sure that corporates in USA break a lot of patents.

More like creating alot of patents on stuff that already exists in nature or otherwise. Ever hear of the Neem tree or the Enola bean?

[Each Hit]

if we judge an entire nation by its most despicable citizens, then i'm sure the united states is among the worst. but consider that a lot of us are people who work our way up to try and help make the world better. it was the efforts of determined individuals that yielded these drugs. they have likely invested at least a decade, probably much more, of their lives toward one field of study (and post-graduate schooling is NOT cheap here) to try and make a difference. unfortunately, their impact is negated by the actions of their superiors.

the problem is that our world is gradually being controlled by fewer and fewer people, leaving many behind in the process. this is not a new concept. in an ecosystem with limited resources, there will be a fight to survive. there will be haves and have-nots.

it's a cruel vision, i know, but it is the simplest and most efficient model. the simple evolutionary act of self-preservation has become something far more sinister... self-elevation; a lust for power. once our species tasted power, it never looked back. the thirst for power has become almost evolutionary. those with more power have kids who inherit that power, who in turn have kids who will inherit their power, ad infinitum. of course, some will squander their power while others born at the bottom may elevate themselves. still, we are seeing something akin to natural selection among our own species.

the only question is whether we really are slaves to nature. can a collective human effort create a social balance that has never existed in all of history?? if there is to be justice in the world, we will have to.

[fnord]

why help the rest of the world when destroying it is so much more profitable?

[fnord]

wondering if i can patent gravity or the wheel,then sue people for useing them,hey its america right?

[Triple7]

Originally Posted by fnord

wondering if i can patent gravity or the wheel,then sue people for useing them,hey its america right?

Sorry to let you down. They guys and actors who made StarTrek would sue you... they already got patents in their films. Don't even mention the G and W word combined, sine maybe someone then has to drive another way to the dry-cleaner and you must pay +100k$.

[enquirewithin]

Clinton challenges US control over Aids drug patents

By David Usborne in New York


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...00:00:03-00:00
Published: 10 May 2007


The former US president Bill Clinton has unveiled an ambitious programme to provide generic versions of Aids drugs for patients in developing countries at greatly reduced prices.
The initiative is a challenge to many US-based manufacturers who have balked at relaxing patent protections and cutting prices for poorer countries.
Mr Clinton has also endorsed decisions by Brazil and Thailand to override patents on the drugs and to pursue the manufacture of generic versions after negotiations with the manufacturers failed. "I strongly support the position of the governments of Thailand and Brazil and their decision after futile negotiations to break these patents," he said.
In a direct attack on American drugs companies, he said: "No company will live or die because of high price premiums for Aids drugs in middle-income countries, but patients may."
Mr Clinton's foundation has been working since 2002 to broker deals to increase the availability of Aids medicines. Approximately 750,000 people are believed to have had access to them for the first time through his work. Aids/HIV affects some 39 million people, and almost 95 per cent are in developing countries.
This time, his foundation has negotiated with two manufacturers in India - Cipla and Matrix Laboratories - to produce generic versions of second-line medicines for when patients develop resistance to the treatment they are originally prescribed, as well as one-tablet-a-day first-line drugs that are less toxic.
Paying for second-line drugs is threatening to overwhelm the healthcare budgets of many governments as more long-term patients begin to develop resistance. They are generally 10-times more expensive. "That's a very great strain on countries' healthcare budgets," Mr Clinton said.
Helping to buy the second-line drugs from the companies will be a group of countries that have together raised $100m (£50m), led by France. The French ambassador to the US joined Mr Clinton for the announcement.
Under the programme, the once-daily first-line pills will become available for about $1 a day. They will combine the drugs Tenofovir, Lamivudine and Efavirenz. "This drug represents the best chance that science has to offer," Mr Clinton said. Money for the drugs will come largely from donor groups including the Global Fund to Fight Aids, Tuberculosis and Malaria.
The initiative means that the second-line drugs will be made available with average savings over current prices of about 25 per cent for low-income countries and 50 per cent in middle-income countries.
That Mr Clinton is willing to take the side of foreign governments against US companies is troubling news for the big American manufacturers. He said that the US manufacturer Abbott had "been almost alone in its hardline position here over what I consider to be a life and death matter".
The life-saving effect of antiretrovirals
* Drugs have transformed Aids from a killer disease to a chronic condition that people can live with
* Those lucky enough to have access to highly active antiretroviral therapy (HAART) can look forward to a near normal lifespan. But that takes careful monitoring and a healthy lifestyle to boost the immune system and ward off infection
* In developing countries, new and better drugs in simpler combinations have brought new hope. Combined with quicker, simpler diagnostic tests they are bringing treatment to more people and improving compliance, which is crucial to preventing drug resistance
* Increasing access to treatment is the key to successful prevention. Once drugs are available, people have a reason to go and get tested and can then be counselled to avoid further spread.

[Nagognog2]

And racism has brought us to the above conclusions? Fascinating.

[fnord]

quote:Third of all how if someone comes up with a medication why aren't they allowed to make as much profit as they can off it?

humanity,morals,respect,concern for our fellow citizens and a few other LAWS i cant remember off the top of my head,

[Triple7]

I have not read this, but I think it can be very interesteing read.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/st...2007,+07:00+PM

USA for Innovation's 8 Deadly Lies About Thailand's Theft of American Innovation

WASHINGTON, April 25 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- USA for Innovation
(http://www.usaforinnovation.org) today announced a special report
highlighting the 8 deadly lies about Thailand's theft of American
innovation by the new military regime and Health Minister Mongkol na
Songkhla.
Lie #1: Thailand is a poor country and cannot afford Western medicines.
Thailand has the 21st largest economy in the world. Thailand is in the
top 10% of the richest countries in the world, richer than 206 other
countries included on the list of the 2006 CIA World Factbook. The World
Bank and International Monetary Fund confirm Thailand's strong position in
the global economy, respectively ranking Thailand 20th and 21st.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...es_by_GDP_(PPP)
Lie #2: Thailand is just doing everything it can to address its AIDS
problem.
According to the United Nations, Thailand's government spent $93
million on AIDS in 2004, the last year publicly available. The World Health
Organization notes that Thailand spends far less on health care (3.3% of
GDP) than peers such as Argentina (8.9%) or poorer countries like Cambodia
(10.9%) or Lebanon (10.2%).
While it is encouraging to see Thailand increased its spending on AIDS
from $70 million in 2003, the truth is that the government spends much more
money to support its state-owned telecommunications company, media empire,
bank and airline. After the military took control of Thailand's government
in a coup last September, the new government raised military spending by
$1.1 billion, an almost 50% increase from the previous year. In other
words, Thailand is stealing American technology to finance 2.4% of its
radical remilitarization. What are they going to steal to fund the rest of
it?
http://data.unaids.org/pub/GlobalRep...GR_ANN3_en.pdf
http://www.who.int/whr/2006/en/
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006...n_30021038.php

Lie #3: Thailand is just trying to lower the cost of Western medicines.
A good place to start would be Thailand's self-imposed tax and tariffs
on these medicines. Thailand applies a 7% value-added tax (VAT), which the
Bangkok Post reported on April 23 may rise to 10% to make up for other
spending priorities. The government also adds another 10% tariff on drug
imports.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/Business/23Apr2007_biz26.php
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubI...pub_detail.asp
Lie #4: Thailand's Government Pharmaceutical Organization issues drugs
that are safe and effective.
The GPO's distribution of dangerous medicine like GPO-vir is
contributing to the unusually high resistance levels of Thai patients. As
American Enterprise Institute scholar and noted HIV/AIDS expert Roger Bate
recently stated:
There is no decent "bioequivalence data" on the quality of GPO-
manufactured drugs, meaning that they are at best approximate copies and
should not be labeled generics ... As to fostering drug resistance, a 2005
study by Thailand's Mahidol University's faculty of medicine found that
GPO- vir, a copy HIV treatment GPO makes, had between 39.6% and 58%
resistance in the 300 patients investigated. This result is perhaps the
worst case of HIV drug resistance in the world.
http://www.aei.org/publications/pubI...pub_detail.asp

Lie #5: Thailand's public health system is lowering costs for medicines
In addition to the taxes and tariffs, Thailand's Government
Pharmaceutical Organization builds in its own profit margins before
distributing drugs to the people of Thailand. In 2002 Thailand's
then-Auditor-General Jaruvan Maintaka issued a report saying that the GPO
sold about 60% of its medical products to government agencies at above
market prices. In some cases, prices were marked up 1,000 percent.
Investigative journalist Daniel Ten Kate notes in the Asia Sentinel earlier
this year:
In 2003, the GPO made a net profit of 624.2 million baht [$19.2
million] on revenues of 3.7 billion baht [$114 million]. A year later,
revenues topped 4 billion baht [$123.3 million], and rose to five billion
[$154.1 million] in 2005. Profits for the GPO topped one billion baht
[$30.8 million] in 2005, according to Anuthin Charnveerakul, the deputy
public health minister under Thaksin, who also scolded the state enterprise
for spending a mere 19 million baht [$585,541] -- just two percent of net
profit -- on research and development. Now the GPO plans to double revenue
to 10 billion baht [$308.2 million] by 2010.
http://www.asiasentinel.com/index.ph...task=view&id=3
51&Item
id=34
Lie #6: Thailand is in the middle of an AIDS crisis.
The world is in the middle of an AIDS crisis. According to the 2006
United Nations Report on the Global AIDS epidemic, Thailand's HIV
prevalence rate is less than 1 percent. It is insulting to claim "crisis"
when it is really a matter of spending priorities. In fact, every penny
Thailand refuses to pay for medicine is one less penny available to develop
the medical innovation necessary to help countries such as Swaziland (20%
of the total population is HIV+), Zimbabwe (14%) and Botswana (17%) who are
struggling to find public health solutions to this horrible disease.
http://data.unaids.org/pub/GlobalRep...x2_Data_en.xls

Lie #7: The drug companies started this fight.
Thailand's new Minister of Health did not make a single effort to
negotiate with drug companies before issuing compulsories licenses. He
opted instead to launch an illegal first strike. Former U.S. Secretary of
Health and Human Services Tommy Thompson, in calling for companies and
government to negotiate a solution, described the Ministry of Health's
actions in the press:
Unfortunately there was no diplomacy in this process: there was
virtually no effort to reach out to the U.S. government or the companies
that developed the drugs to arrive at a solution before the licenses were
issued. Thailand's aggressive first step has now created an escalating
battle between government and industry.
http://www.marketwatch.com/news/stor...ical-diplomacy
-
growing/story.aspx?guid=%7B310AEA38-3BF5-4676-B7B2-529B847E84DF%7D
Lie #8: Thailand's recent use of compulsory licenses is legal.
Thailand's interpretation of compulsory licenses, as outlined in their
February 2007 "whitepaper", wishes to remove all limits on use of the
compulsory license for medical products. Thailand's recent movement to
issue compulsory licenses for three medical products is not consistent with
the rules outlined in the WTO's Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of
Intellectual Property Rights (TRIPS). For a detailed discussion, please see
Ambassador Ken Adelman's April 23, 2007 letter to Ambassador Rice,
Secretary Gutierrez, Secretary Leavitt and Ambassador Schwab.
http://usaforinnovation.org/images/2...lmanletter.pdf
About USA for Innovation
USA For Innovation is a non-profit organization dedicated to the
protection of intellectual property and continued innovation around the
globe. USA For Innovation educates decision makers, the media and general
public about threats to innovation. For additional information, please
contact us at 866-646-8668 or maura@usaforinnovation.org.


SOURCE USA for Innovation