Drug info - LSD as a nootropic/intelligence enhancer

[zera]

On the wikipedia article it referred to LSDs use as a nootropic at sub-threshold doses, like 10 micrograms. Any swimmers have experience with this, particuarly the qualitative description of how it affects your cognitive processes. Swim could easily see LSD or other psychedelics being cognitive boosters at low doses, by enhancing creativity and making one more aware of details. Would tolerance develop at these doses, or could one use 10 ug doses for days in a row and keep the cognitive boosts?

Reputation Comments on this post:

great thread topic! :)

[Rush]

that's funny i was interested in this fact(psychedelich nootropic), and posted this topic in the research chemicals section!

i was headed towards phenethylamine

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30979

i think the doses should be very very low.
SWIM tried this thing with AMT 3,5-5 mg but he thinks the dose was too high

the problem is that if the dose is too high, all becomes too foggy, and this means cognitive function degradation(exact opposite of nootropic), and cant focus really long on thoughts.

also i found that 5ht6 receptor antagonists helps memory recalling.
as all psychedelic drugs are 5ht agonists, this can temporarly reduce short-term memory.

so, i think you just need to find a dose that your body can handle, and all psychedelichs could be useful to this. some research should be made about this use of drugs

Reputation Comments on this post:

	self incrimination
	very interesting info

[eltimmy]

IIRC, at the time Crick came up with the double-helix structure for DNA, it was common for scientists around campus to be using very low doses of LSD regularly in order to help open up new channels of thought.

[sterling77]

thats really interesting.

[nanobrain]

while the nootropic virtues of LSD are still debatable, another Hofmann invented ergoline - Hydergine - has passed the test of time in nootropic regard with flying colors.

[seechao]

SWIM did some experimenting with sub threshold LSD for a few weeks, and actualy found very little results, no learning improvement, no real creative boosting, and at slightly higher than threshold, it was distracting, and of no real help either. SWIM was unimpressed, and rather wished he haddent wasted good lsd on such an experiment.

[Niteflights]

I have read that Albert Hoffman has stated that the use of LSD-25 can increase intelligence in humans. I wonder if this ever been categorically verified in clinical trials.

Cheers,
Niteflights

[Nature Boy]

A direct increase in intelligence is unlikely however using LSD may be up there with the likes of eating fish or listening to classical music. It is believed, though not definitively proven, that these things can increase one's intelligence whether it be a direct cause or a result of inspiration.

[little carrot]

Did Dr. Hoffman make any specific claims as to which types of intelligence were enhanced? Looking at the following link describing nine types of intelligence, it seems like Naturalist intelligence (#1), Existential intelligence (#4), Intrapersonal intelligence (#8) and Spacial intelligence (#9) could all easlily be enhanced: http://skyview.vansd.org/lschmidt/Pr...telligence.htm

[little carrot]

Surely the other types could be enhanced by acid too.

[podge]

Yes it has the potential to increase intelligence in certain sense's but it has the ability to make the simplest tasks extremelly difficult also.

eg, Swim can spend hours thinking about life and the universe in new/unusual and benificial ways.....but at the same time swim may have difficulty operating CD players or other otherwise easy tasks.

It all depends on the mind in question and how the trip is going swim thinks.

[Psych0naut]

SWIM did a good dose of LSD a while ago, a Hofmann anniversary blotter to be more precise. It was SWIMs first trip that actually tought SWIM a thing, that could be regarded as a educational trip, not just a recreational one.
The next day, SWIM went through some theoretical synths he was working on, on his computer, and somehow al the pieces fit together.
SWIM somehow finally understanded everything that was meant in the literature he read, and when he tried to bring it in practice it worked.
Since that trip, SWIM understands chemistry much better, that trip really made a big difference in SWIMs chemistry knowledge.

[Jatelka]

There is, of course the fact (Myth? Urban Legend? SWIJ will have to check references) that Francis Crick (with the not inconsiderable help of James Watson and Rosalind Franklin) finally elucidated the structure of the double helix with the aid of LSD

[Niteflights]

Also, the US government performed extensive LSD-25 testing around the time of the MKULTRA project. Then all of a sudden they became very hush hush. Not to credit their motives or even methods but I imagine that they found some interesting things about the substances which they chose to suppress.

Hydergine is commonly touted (and apparently by Dr Hoffman himself) to have similar intelligence enhancing capacity as low dose LSD-25. Does anyone know if this has been clinically documented? Obviously the nature of intelligence makes analysis difficult but at some point the light must be cast. Come on gentlemen, let’s get to it!

Nite

[Bajeda]

Jatelka, about the Crick discovering the double helix structure of DNA on lsd thing, you should take a look at this. There are other articles on the subject as well I think. If you look at other articles on the subject from before, Crick seems to have hinted at lsd use before, but he never personally gave details about any connection between lsd use and the discovery of the double helix structure of DNA.

'Dick Kemp told me he met Francis Crick at Cambridge. Crick had told him that some Cambridge academics used LSD in tiny amounts as a thinking tool, to liberate them from preconceptions and let their genius wander freely to new ideas. Crick told him he had perceived the double-helix shape while on LSD.

[Euphoric]

Could perhaps LSA containing seeds be used the same way? Or would the toxicity outweigh any potential benefits?

[snapper]

SWIM thinks that LSD is a teacher and as such can facilitate intellectual and emotional growth in the user. This translates to an increase in intelligence. The distinction here is whether LSD increases intelligence while under its influence, or more intelligent after having used it. SWIM feels the latter is very true, and to a certain extent with all psychedelics. LSD seems to be particularly effective at confronting, resolving, and revealing issues.. SWIM thinks that while on it, one may be capable of non-linear or different lines of thinking which can allow new concepts. However, SWIM felt that LSD makes for very circular and erratic thought patterns and seems to have little nootropic effect (for SWIM). Hydergine does have a strong nootropic effect, though..

[Euphoric]

Just remembered something I'm pretty sure I read in Timothy Leary's The Politics of Ecstasy. However it may have been another of his works, and I hear that any of Mr. Leary's studies or studies he cites should be taken with a big grain of salt. Anyways, he mentioned that someone took some acid and I believe was in complete dark, but listening to a recording of people speaking Spanish (maybe radio or TV recording, possibly an instructional cassette) and after the session she understood an abnormal amount of Spanish. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't an instructional tape, and the point was that she made all the connections and was able to understand the structure of the language just by taking some acid and listening to conversations. Any similar anecdotes in regards to language acquisition or other incredible learning stories while under the influence?

[Heretic.Ape.]

Originally Posted by Jatelka

(with the not inconsiderable help of James Watson and Rosalind Franklin

Ah, Rosalind, the unsung martyr of genetics. Did more than her share of the real work at the expense of cancer and still gets no real acclaim. No matter how much acid was involved they never would have come up with anything if not for her.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

Just remembered something I'm pretty sure I read in Timothy Leary's The Politics of Ecstasy. However it may have been another of his works, and I hear that any of Mr. Leary's studies or studies he cites should be taken with a big grain of salt. Anyways, he mentioned that someone took some acid and I believe was in complete dark, but listening to a recording of people speaking Spanish (maybe radio or TV recording, possibly an instructional cassette) and after the session she understood an abnormal amount of Spanish. I'm pretty sure that it wasn't an instructional tape, and the point was that she made all the connections and was able to understand the structure of the language just by taking some acid and listening to conversations. Any similar anecdotes in regards to language acquisition or other incredible learning stories while under the influence?

I believe investigations into the use of LSD and other psychedelics for nootropic purposes involved very low doses, ones that wouldn't be especially psychedelic.

If you took a full hit of acid and tried to comprehend something it would be harder, rather than easier, as you can imagine.

[zera]

Originally Posted by Euphoric

Could perhaps LSA containing seeds be used the same way? Or would the toxicity outweigh any potential benefits?

As swim understands it the toxcity comes from what comes on the coating of the HBWR seeds, not the LSA itself. One could do an acid/base extraction to obtain untainted LSA. As a nootropic this stuff might work better than LSD because it doesnt have the same distracting sensory distortion.

[Jatelka]

Many Thanks Bajeda.

Threads Merged

[eltimmy]

>as swim understands it the toxcity comes from what comes on the coating of the HBWR seeds, not the LSA itself

Vasoconstriction probably comes from the LSA ("LSAs", properly, as many different lysergic amides are contained in seeds), as other ergotamine/ergocristine compounds are also known to cause severe vasoconstriction (progressing to gangrene -- this is one of the complications of eating infected rye ...)

>As a nootropic this stuff might work better than LSD because it doesnt have the same distracting sensory distortion.

You may be right (SWIM hasn't experienced enough with LSAs to speak for himself) but for one SWIM found LSA to be quite stoning/sedating as opposed to the clearer stimulation of LSD ... perhaps a negative in this regard?

[eltimmy]

I am looking through my books to try to dig up a quote by Robert Anton Wilson, I think in Prometheus Rising, where he references a 10% IQ increase (not while on the LSD) in a single study where patients treated were with LSD in multiple sessions ... and then to find said study.

For one, this could be traced to resolution of neuroses, depression for instance impairing results on IQ tests.

But, perhaps, neuroplasticity at work. Associative, patterned thinking ... the stuff of the IQ test.

Of course, no one should conflate IQ testing with "intelligence" but should be interesting if it pans out. Will get back to drugs-forum ...

[seechao]

Has anyone had experiance with hydergine? T'was something my lab rats where thinking of trying, they figured that this substance may have the benefits that they had been trying to get from sub recreational doses of lsd... What are the effects like? Would you still consider it psychedelic?