Desoxypipradrol

[fastandbulbous]

Anybody tried this yet? What sort of dosages are being considered, just from what I've heard from some people, anything beyond the 20mg mark gets to be far too much to cope with comfortably.

It seems that most people are considering 5-10mg to be the optimum dose

[fatal]

there needs to be a thread on this. i should have some relevant real data to post on this soon i think. anyone have anything? there is very little available info on this.

[NeonCortex]

What's up fastandbulbous? You, out of all on this board, whould know what is sane dosagewise.

[nanobrain]

when posting dosages, please also mention route of admin.

hopefully this pipradrol rework will prove more rewarding to the dopafiend rats than the D2PM which they found virtually without merit.

[Nicaine]

SWIM has seen some discussion re: this substance, and is more than a little concerned about its duration of action (24-48 hours). His main worry is that at recreational doses, the half life will end up being far too long for comfort -- thus killing the whole idea of using it recreationally. I suppose it depends on a given lab animal's perception of what "recreation" means, stimulant-wise...

P.S. SWIM has access to some of this stuff, but is not ready to begin researching it yet. Maybe in a few days, maybe a week, maybe two, depending on his sleep schedule and such... clearly this is one substance that demands respect and careful planning.

[Nicaine]

SWIM had not planned to, but ended up beginning research on this substance earlier today.

SWIM's impressions so far (which he does not expect to change much):

Desoxypipradrol's primary mechanism of action appears to be CNS inhibition of norepinephrine reuptake, with much less (but probably still some) influence on dopamine, and likely no effects on serotonin at all. At normal doses there are few to no peripheral sympathomimetic side effects (such as elevated heart rate and blood pressure), and surprisingly little appetite suppression. At higher doses, excessive CNS norepinephrine may result in anxiety, restlessness, tachycardia, anorexia, insomnia, hyperhidrosis and transitory hypertension.

In SWIM's opinion, desoxypipradrol fits the "functional stimulant" category very well. However, it falls short of making the grade from a recreational standpoint. It also fails to provide the strong boost in focus/concentration offered by drugs (such as Ritalin and Adderall) commonly prescribed for attention deficit disorders. At least, it did not produce any such intense focus in SWIM's lab animals.

The general lack of appetite suppression, increased sexual desire, intensive focus on repetititive tasks, and compulsivity (i.e. "jonesing") are key indicators of this drug's weak-to-nonexistent influence on dopamine levels in the brain.

Given cautious and respectful dosing, SWIM think desoxypipradrol might make a good study aid, motivational aid (i.e. getting things done that have been procrastinated) and general wakefulness-promoting agent. The latter may be especially useful in situations involving extended operation of hazardous machinery (e.g. long automobile trips), as wakefulness and mental clarity appear to be maintained despite mild to moderate levels of sleep deprivation.

There may be a few who find its effects enjoyable enough to take for fun, but SWIM strongly suspects it will never catch on with recreational stimulant users in general... the prerequisite, critically important focus on dopamine and/or serotonin is absent.

ISE, any euphoria produced by this substance is sporadic, unpredictable and may be punctuated by stretches of anxiety and dysphoric overstimulation. The drug's effects on mood appear similarly unpredictable and based on such factors as dosage, set/setting and the user's physical and mental health prior to ingestion. Feelings of foreboding and a sense of impending doom have been reported. Due to the drug's very long duration, high doses and/or repeated redosing appears to carry a risk of panic attacks, paranoia, delirium, confusion, akathisia, rapid mood swings and other mental health problems.

ISO, this substance resembles drugs such as Strattera (atomoxetine) and Edronax (reboxetine) more closely than it does methylphenidate or amphetamine, with the primary differences being desoxypipradrol's high potency, rapid onset of effects and extra long half-life. Unfortunately, this latter quality (a purported 24-48 hour duration) may nix many potential benefits and end up quickly sending the drug back into obscurity and obsolescence.

I'm sure there will be some who disagree with these conclusions, and I would enjoy further discussion of the subject.

[sam o]

Very interesting, any guesses to it's detection threw drug tests or screenings? Might come up a false/positve for pipradrol.

Thanks

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by sam o

Very interesting, any guesses to it's detection threw drug tests or screenings? Might come up a false/positve for pipradrol.

Seems very likely that it would. SWIM would certainly not take any chances in that regard.

[nanobrain]

^very informative report, Senor Nicaine.

are claims to duration proving accurate? doses and methods used? how does activity compare to the R2D2 (you know whatamine) variety?

the foreboding feelings induced, that is a disconcerting thought. please report on sleep effects - when able, of course ;-)

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by nanobrain

^very informative report, Senor Nicaine.

are claims to duration proving accurate? doses and methods used? how does activity compare to the R2D2 (you know whatamine) variety?

Nothing definitive re: duration, but it does seem to last a very long time. Other than potential loss of sleep, it's not too big a deal; acute effects (e.g. rushes from snorting/smoking) tend to drop off to a steady baseline rather quickly. That said, it's good to have some downers around when doing this stuff, unless one is very cautious and conservative dosage-wise.

Re: methods of admin, this is a very versatile subbie. Snorting, smoking, plugging, eating and injecting are all viable methods of ingestion. A good starting dosage is probably 10mg for stimulant fans, 1-4mg for stimulant virgins. Tolerance is reputed to build very quickly. It feels a little bit like "geranamine" centrally, but totally lacks the peripheral effects; In other words, it makes the mind happy and leaves the body alone. Very, very smooth stimulation, probably the smoothest SWIM has ever experienced.

the foreboding feelings induced, that is a disconcerting thought. please report on sleep effects - when able, of course ;-)

From what I've read, this (foreboding, anxiety, paranoia and such) seems to occur mainly with inadvisably heavy use, which we all know a sizeable minority of stimulant users just can't resist. Downers (benzos, GHB, GBL, gabapentin, pregabalin, etc) are probably necessary if one happens to engage in such activities. Unfortunately, ISO the stuff is not very recreational unless abused (SWIM isn't recommending that of course, just making an observation). Given the duration of effects, SWIM feels that sleep deprivation could become a real danger very quickly, thus he doesn't think this substance is a wise choice for recreation. It works out much better as an energizing and wakefulness-promoting drug, and SWIM thinks it could be VERY useful in that regard. He actually got a bunch of crap (cleaning, etc) done today that he'd been procrastinating for ages.

[fastandbulbous]

Originally Posted by NeonCortex

What's up fastandbulbous? You, out of all on this board, whould know what is sane dosagewise.

Trying not to influence others reporting dosages consumed, but honestly report. It's incredibly potent and 5-10mg might be a bit much even for some people

It's actually primarily a dopamine reuptake inhibitor and there are several papers detailing it's activity at the dopamine transporter

[NeonCortex]

Originally Posted by fastandbulbous

Trying not to influence others reporting dosages consumed, but honestly report.

Understood.

Anyone have anything to report?

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

(1) SWIM is an old timer on Usenet and other forum(s) similar to this one. (2) ISO releasing this stuff to the RC community was unwise, although the substance has been around for ages and was never hard to acquire -- just obscure, and for good reasons. SWIM has observed the most experienced 1% of researchers hinting at some level of problems dealing with it. No supporting evidence, just a casual opinion -- take for whatever it's worth.

[NeonCortex]

What kind of "problems dealing with it"? The dose and t1/2, problems from the long action?

I can imagine problems occuring. The high potency and long half life makes it a substance that requires some respect and carefulness, which are characteristics generally lacking in the drug using public. Diphenylprolinol is a good example, but somewhat different considering the characteristics of that substance which can lead to staggering doses in the futile chase of euphoria - leading to bad reactions.

This a substance for the connoisseurs!

[Alfa]

What is the full name of this formula?

Originally Posted by Parkhamno1

Desoxypipradrol insomnia update. (Orally ingested 10mg -"roughly" 41hrs ago,

Ah the humanity!!!! Been trying to chase the Z's all day, not a fucking wink! This stuff is not to be meddled with unless you understand the consequences. An all pervading sense of doom has followed me for a about 24hrs, which is a massive improvement on the previous 22hrs sense of dread!

[U]Consequences[/u]

Total list of negative side effects in random order.

Intense paranoia,
An intense sense of dread,
Occasional onsets of psychosis,
Stomach cramps, difficulty in urinating, exacerbated by 3rd degree diarrhea.-- (OH, THE CRUEL IRONY)

Other negative physical effects include my penis being dormant in a flaccid pathetic state throughout the entire time period, despite hornyness.

Positive Effects

Between the all pervading senses of doom and dread an occasional onset of euphoria excited me, but sadly it was soon followed by doom.

I think I did a pretty decent job of my German politics essay written under its influence; however sleep deprivation triggered a cataclysmic inability to cognitively function.


I apologise for the poor written quality. It's full of strange vocabuliric fallacies, no doubt induced by my brain unable to remember what sleep felt like.

Now, I will leave it to your discretion on whether to decide to take the chemical. My advice: leave it to astronauts / fighter pilots and soldiers; all vocations which in times of crisis and fatigue could benefit by fighting the innate human need for sleep. SORRY, just realised the stupidity of the last sentence. If I was in charge of a jet or space station in my current state I would be incinerated almost instantly. The war on sleep will only lead to defeat. For those who aim to cheat sleep beware the mental fatigue which may propel you into torturous mental places. Sorry for the ramblings!

One last thing. Imagine the potential for enhanced productivity this chemical has for a sick and twisted government/corporation hellbent in achieving economic growth……. Moreover, he/she or them could punish us all by spiking the water supply, keeping everyone awake for a personal eternity. Perhaps this has already began....

Sorry for the rambling!

The dose for this monster is 1 -4 mg's. I'd not go near the thing personally. But to each their own.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

2-benzhydrylpiperidine hydrochloride. Molecular formula is C18H21N*HCl. CAS# 5807-81-8. If my data is correct. I didn't double check via CAS lookup. Re: going near, SWIM hopes nobody really treats themselves as guinea pigs with some of these compounds, but it's probably a false hope.

[Nagognog2]

D&D - doom & dread. Sounds like a catchy name! I'll call marketing in the am.

[NeonCortex]

Originally Posted by Bio-Cellular Enigma

(2) ISO releasing this stuff to the RC community was unwise, although the substance has been around for ages and was never hard to acquire -- just obscure, and for good reasons. SWIM has observed the most experienced 1% of researchers hinting at some level of problems dealing with it. No supporting evidence, just a casual opinion -- take for whatever it's worth.

Can you please provide some details as to why it was unwise to release it?

Re: going near, SWIM hopes nobody really treats themselves as guinea pigs with some of these compounds, but it's probably a false hope.

What about the DOX's, dragonflies, MDPV? All the BZP's! Unlike most substances that has appeared on the so called RC community, desoxypipradrol was actually taken to human trials as a pharmaceutical drug. That is worth pretty much when it comes to safety IMO, but doesn't change the fact that it might be a difficult drug to handle.

Nagognog2: A better nickname would be "Orient Express v.NOS".

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by NeonCortex

Can you please provide some details as to why it was unwise to release it?

SWIM read posts from (or talked to) researcher(s) who he believes are among the most experienced in the RC community in terms of dealing with stimulants and various issues commonly associated with them. The researcher(s) SWIM is referring to noted experiencing non-trivial problems of one sort or another dealing with this substance, despite their vast experience with stimulants. If they had problems, logic suggests that less experienced researchers will have problems too, and quite likely less resources available to cope with them. That's why SWIM thinks it was unwise, although appearance of a RC involves too many factors to blame anyone. Perhaps SWIM should have worded it thus: He thinks it's regrettable it appeared on the scene, and hopes for the best in terms of outcome.

What about the DOX's, dragonflies, MDPV? All the BZP's!

SWIM is not familiar with every RC or similar substance, and his familiarity (and type of familiarity) varies among substances. Hopefully clear as applicable to any/every researcher.He's not too familiar with DOX's/dragonflies, and didn't bother with BZP's due to illegality in his country of the parent compound and uninteresting qualities of the others. In terms of stimulants, SWIM believes methylone to be moderately compulsive but relatively benign. MDPV, highly compulsive but otherwise relatively benign. Desoxypipradrol, benign in terms of LD50 but combined potency + half-life increase risks to 'unacceptable' levels. Just his opinion.

Unlike most substances that has appeared on the so called RC community, desoxypipradrol was actually taken to human trials as a pharmaceutical drug. That is worth pretty much when it comes to safety IMO

Taken to human trials under highly controlled conditions in terms of dosage and frequency of use. Then rejected as a pharmaceutical drug. As an "RC" -- typical arrival might be 500mg envelope (125 to 500 clinical doses of 24 hour duration each), conditions completely uncontrolled and unknown. Receiver might immediately swallow the whole envelope just for fun, who knows? This may sound insulting to researchers, but wasn't there just talk about massive OD's of another RC resulting in hospital admissions?

SWIM said his piece now about this substance, he has nothing more to add. Thanks for the discussion, it's fun.

Reputation Comments on this post:

You are making intelligent, informative posts, as well as displaying a much-needed sense of caution

[Alfa]

Well there's not much to add about DOx/Dragonflies after the recent events whith those. But best may be to buckle up tight and see to what new area of law enforcement this compound and it's milder brother lead us.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

OK, SWIM will add one final observation (despite talking too much already, sorry for boring anyone to death). A significant factor determining safety of a stimulant is how it 'scales' dosage-wise. Both MDPV and methylone are self-limiting in that regard. Methylone does nothing after some point, and MDPV feels terrible if a sane dosage is exceeded. No final story has been told on desoxypipradrol, but preliminary observations point to 'scalability' similar to cocaine or methamphetamine, i.e. very high. And as dosage goes up, duration of effects seems to increase quite a bit too. Doesn't that worry anybody?

Thanks again for the conversation, very enjoyable!

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good points made regarding earlier research regarding desoxypipradrol. thanks

[NeonCortex]

Yes, that aspect worries me too. When I speak of the clinical trials and what they mean safetywise I'm not really considering unsane dosages, but rather the distribution, metabolism and toxicity of the compound. IMO things could turn out very bad if this compound became marketed to the main stream.

[sam o]

Does anyone want to guess to it's detection threw drug tests and screenings? Might be a false/ positive for pipradrol?(same metabolites?)

Thanks.

[NeonCortex]

It very likely to show positive for pipradrol. It is however unlikely to be tested for pipradrol.

I can't remember if tertiary carbons are metabolically oxidized. Anyone else?

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

SWIM will repost this as a separate thread.