Culture - Was Timothy Leary Right?

[Lobsang]

I think regardless whether Leary's actions relative to the popularization of LSD jibe with your view, Leary must also be evaluated on his contribution to society as a whole. I think to understand Leary and make any decisions one needs to read his work entensively and also watch his interviews. Even though being a "high Priest" in the culture may have gone to his head to and extent we cannot let negatives about a person shadow the accurate information he projected. I do not believe for one minute that LSD would have survived in even a clinical or research context even if Leary never lived. LSD is what it is and mainstream society is what it is. I believe that what has happened would have happened with or without Leary. I believe this because it is the nature of man to expand and society which is controlled by religion and government does not want that with or without Leary.

Personally if it was not for Leary I would not know what the hell was going on when I drempt I took LSD. I would not understand the billions years old nervous system I have. I owe a debt of gratitude to Tim Leary for helping me to to deceipher the LSD experiences that I dreamed about. WE are all human. Even Leary. We are all suseptable to making some mistakes. I personally judge Tim Leary on his contributions and not his errore. I believe that far more people were expanded by Leary's actions than would have been had LSD stayed in the clinical arena. And had LSD stayed in the clinical arena it would have slipped out anyway just as all things do. I do not think that Hoffman discovered LSD. I think LSD discovered Hoffman. Leary did not popularize LSD. He was a vehicle. Had Leary never lived I think there would have been another neurologically programmed individual to attend to the expansion of the hive of humanity. We have circutry within us that is switched on by LSD. Leary was simply a tool for humanity. Each of us is genetically programmed for certain contributions to mankind. Leary in my opinion was a mutation. A mutation that was designed to turn on as many neuro-circuts as possible. And that is my opinion. Everyone creates their own reality and no one reality is more real than another for the perceiver. So this opinion is my reality...

Reputation Comments on this post:

Your post is much more informative than some of the unthinking views in thsi thread.

[enquirewithin]

In a way Leary got what he wanted: fame (or infamy). His ego was over-developed, he was irresponsible in his giving out psychedelics to all and sundry, became too involved in his own "High Priest' trip (even if that was a joke) and he treated his family poorly. Worst of all, he attracted the attention of Nixon's ultra-paranoid administration (it didn't take much, remember).

I still like reading his books occasionally, espcially the ones he wrote in prison and after.

Karl Jansen, author of Ketamine: Dreams and Realities,admires Leary, with reservations. He sums him up quite well:

I’m not really a fashionable person. I’ve really read an awful lot of what Timothy Leary had to say. I’ve seen a significant part of what he predicted coming true. He was into the internet at a very early stage (he had a company called Knowhere), and he said that it’s the new LSD, by which he meant it’s the new way of connecting with everything. A lot of his stuff has come true. I think he was an extremely intelligent man. A lot of people don’t realize that he was essentially the father of transactional analysis. They associate the name Eric Berne and Games People Play, but that’s why Leary was invited to Harvard, because his Ph.D. thesis at Barclay was called “The Interpersonal Diagnosis of Personality,” which was essentially setting out the basics of transactional analysis, of how you are defined by your interpersonal interactions, almost an existentialist idea if you like. He was a very original thinker about a lot of things with a lot of very good ideas, and I think that the anti-Leary feeling, which is of quite long standing, is that Leary’s behavior somehow spoiled things for other people that wanted to do psychedelic research. I think that’s a very naïve view. I think the view that conservative established forces would not have moved against psychedelics and psychedelic research, that everything would have progressed very nicely if not for Leary, is very naïve and very unlikely. If that were really the case, then that research would have continued but under more controlled circumstances. I mean, we have people doing heroin research and cocaine research, and some of those doctors go off the rails...

Psychedelics frighten people who are very much into control. People who become politicians and policemen are people that really need to control other people. They have a real need. ....It’s possible that if MDMA didn’t have these unpleasant effects on serotonergic nerve terminals, there might even be some ongoing place for it somewhere, not well-regarded, but a place for it. But there’s no place for LSD at all. And this is one of the reasons for it.

So let’s not put too much on Timothy Leary’s shoulders in terms of what happened with LSD. He was just the fall guy.

http://www.scotto.org/faith/jansenframe.html

Robert Anton Wilson called Leary the most important philosopher of the C20.

[Samadhi]

Originally Posted by ♣ Tekken ♥

whats wrong with taking LSD to trip balls? people take other drugs for the enjoyable effect they give, why can't it be the same for LSD? sure when on acid one can have an intense spiritually enhancing experience, but when they come down it's mainly back to normal...

SWIM just personally thinks acid is a fun drug that should be more available, as most kids these days simply sniff and take pills and never experience psychedelia
also 'tripping' isn't the only reason people (like SWIM) enjoy trips, your forgetting the giggles!! laughing your head off at a cone on a stick for no reason is something only acid can give (or maybe mushrooms.... )

I think Huxley said it best when he scoffed at Learys idea of everyone participating in a mass LSD trial (can't find the exact quote...swim'll get that one later) Basically what swim is saying is that the world is too stupid in majority to ever full realize the depth of the substance and the trip. taking a drug to "trip balls" brings it right back to the same old shit that gets this stuff banned... you may indeed trip but it's how to trip enlightened and aware that is what makes this chemical have amazing power... The world does not need a pile of acid in every neighborhood... swim doesn't mean to rant but swim hears this every day and it picks at him.

[tip]

I think Huxley said it best when he scoffed at Learys idea of everyone participating in a mass LSD trial (can't find the exact quote...swim'll get that one later) Basically what swim is saying is that the world is too stupid in majority to ever full realize the depth of the substance and the trip. taking a drug to "trip balls" brings it right back to the same old shit that gets this stuff banned... you may indeed trip but it's how to trip enlightened and aware that is what makes this chemical have amazing power... The world does not need a pile of acid in every neighborhood... swim doesn't mean to rant but swim hears this every day and it picks at him.

Leary was too stupid to ever full realize the depth of the substance!!

[Mr. Giraffe]

Gosh, is this one tripper trying to 'out-enlighten' another? How cliched.

I assume you believe that you are more intelligent than Mr. Leary. I may not agree with everything the man said, but I have to concede that Mr. Leary was a ferociously intelligent man, without whose evangelical zeal, many of the visitors to this portion of the site possibly wouldn't have visited...

What have you done for drugs lately?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Most excellent question sir. Indeed, what have we personally done for drugs lately? We take 'em, but we need to give too...

[tip]

Gosh, is this one tripper trying to 'out-enlighten' another? How cliched.

I assume you believe that you are more intelligent than Mr. Leary. I may not agree with everything the man said, but I have to concede that Mr. Leary was a ferociously intelligent man, without whose evangelical zeal, many of the visitors to this portion of the site possibly wouldn't have visited...

What have you done for drugs lately?

Cannot do much these days, cause you get life in prison!!!

Maybe not as intelligent but maybe more intuitive?? How the fuck can a substance like LSD be useful for every human being. Some inbred carcasses are just not equipped to use such devices; I mean fuck its pretty obvious!!! It was just so irresponsible promoting a substance like LSD to the masses!! Which has now led to the current suppression of human consciousness, there is more to LSD then just tripping!!

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by tip

Cannot do much these days, cause you get life in prison!!!

Not for writing or speaking about it you don't.

My question was mostly rhetorical; I feel your criticism of Leary is over the top. I think you probably have a lot more in common than you have apart.

Originally Posted by tip

Maybe not as intelligent but maybe more intuitive?? How the fuck can a substance like LSD be useful for every human being. Some inbred carcasses are just not equipped to use such devices; I mean fuck its pretty obvious!!! It was just so irresponsible promoting a substance like LSD to the masses!! Which has now led to the current suppression of human consciousness, there is more to LSD then just tripping!!

One could easily counter that your approach is elitist and that Leary was merely upholding the principles of equality by advocating its widespread use. You should also remember that LSD was new and exciting, and Leary had not got the benefit of hindsight which we enjoy. But the question remains: had Leary not taken his soapbox on tour and shouted about LSD, how many people who came to physcedelics would not have discovered them?

I suppose another way of asking my earlier question is: How many people have you brought to pyschedelics lately?

I would like you to expand on the idea that Leary's crusade was somehow responsible for the current 'suppression of human consciousness' as you put it. Do you think that LSD would have remained legal had Leary not evangelicised about it? I'm interested in this view, and would like to hear more.

[podge]

Originally Posted by Mr. Giraffe

had Leary not taken his soapbox on tour and shouted about LSD, how many people who came to physcedelics would not have discovered them?

Yes but inversely he was the main reason for it being banned. He shouted from the rooftops that everyone should take LSD.....his words "acid is fun", children as young as 9 years old being given acid....thats just wrong.

He was the first to speak about the benefits but he didnt have much regard for warning people of the dangers. All the main players from the 70's regard Leary as the psychedelic revolutions downfall. Would LSD have gotten a chance to be properly researched and have gained substantial scientific credibility before it was criminalized had it not been for leary - i doubt it but who knows.

And i do recognize that he brought it to the main stream and as a result caused a lot of good things.....but he was no saint and i wouldnt classify him as a hero to the psychedelic movement.

[OzzBozz]

Originally Posted by podge

Yes but inversely he was the main reason for it being banned. He shouted from the rooftops that everyone should take LSD.....his words "acid is fun", children as young as 9 years old being given acid....thats just wrong.

He was the first to speak about the benefits but he didnt have much regard for warning people of the dangers. All the main players from the 70's regard Leary as the psychedelic revolutions downfall. Would LSD have gotten a chance to be properly researched and have gained substantial scientific credibility before it was criminalized had it not been for leary - i doubt it but who knows.

And i do recognize that he brought it to the main stream and as a result caused a lot of good things.....but he was no saint and i wouldnt classify him as a hero to the psychedelic movement.

i've talked to people who've also regarded owsley as a bit of a disgrace to the LSD movement in the 60's due to the fact that he released a batch of STP which caused overdoses. Though, he did release alot of Flow all over the US... purple haze and white lightnings i believe??? i forget, they were really high-potency doses that alot of people all over were eating.

[Mr. Giraffe]

Originally Posted by podge

Yes but inversely he was the main reason for it being banned. He shouted from the rooftops that everyone should take LSD.....his words "acid is fun", children as young as 9 years old being given acid....thats just wrong.

Did Leary say that 9 year olds should be given acid?

I think Leary meant 'fun' is a fairly expansive sense, not just 'hey kids, take this, get fucked up, have fun'.

I think you are being a little unfair to his arguments.

Originally Posted by podge

He was the first to speak about the benefits but he didnt have much regard for warning people of the dangers. All the main players from the 70's regard Leary as the psychedelic revolutions downfall.

Really? I would be interested in reading some more about this; who regards Leary as the psychedelic revolution's downfall?

Also, what sort of a revolution might it have been if nobody had known about it?

Originally Posted by podge

And i do recognize that he brought it to the main stream and as a result caused a lot of good things.....but he was no saint and i wouldnt classify him as a hero to the psychedelic movement.

I didn't mention good or bad, and I don't hold an opinion on Leary, hero or demon. I'm simply saying that, if you think LSD is great, then you have to acknowledge that Leary is probably the main reason it reached so many people.

There seems to be a lot of Leary hating going on these days, I suspect it's a sign of how defeated the LSD movement is.

[podge]

People like Albert Hoffman and Owsley Stanley thought Leary at fault. Owsley is quoted as saying :

"Leary was a fool. Drunk with 'celebrity-hood' and his own ego, he became a media clown-and was arguably the single most damaging actor involved in the destruction of the evanescent social movement of the '60's. Tim, with his very public exhortations to the kids to 'tune in, turn on and drop out,' is the inspiration for all the current draconian US drug laws against psychedelics. He would not listen to any of us when we asked him to please cool it, he loved the lime-light and relished his notoriety... I was not a fan of his."

Iv never seen any footage of Leary recommending 9 year olds take acid, but im sure weve all seen the footage of the 9 year old speaking about his LSD experience in Learys headquarters - Millbrook.

And i dont hate leary - his motives were good, but i disagreed with his methods.

[Mr. Giraffe]

That sounds to me like Owsley is casting around to blame a member of his own team, so to speak, rather than laying the blame where it belongs - at the door of an authoritatian establishment which was NEVER going to allow mind-expanding drugs to remain legal. Whether Leary hastened the process is debatable, but no serious minded person would argue that the suppression of pyschedelics might have been avoided were it not for Leary.

And whatever else Leary was, he was not a fool. As Enquirewithin has pointed out, his work is well regarded and was groundbreaking.

Incidentally, while one must obviously applaud the efforts of MAPS, we should also be aware that their work, important though it is, will not bring us any closer to legalisation for recreational use. It won't be a step in the right direction, it will be a step in a totally different direction.

In a sense, it represents the retreat of the pyschedelic community, from the open defiance of the 60s to the cap-in-hand pleading of today.

[Samadhi]

Swim agrees with the statements above stating Learys mistakes... swim may have never "done as much for drugs" per-say, but swim certainly never ruined them.

Swim gets sick of hearing he was so wise and great when he failed to understand the basic concept of what he was doing... The time period he was in was lucrative and he lost sight of the outside world. The concept of revolution is one that is not easily achieved, you cant just sit back drop loads of acid and think you're doing it...

basically swim thinks leary was a bit of a megalomaniac in how he did things... he failed to see that where he was making a "revolution" the whole world was still working the same way it always did... so in the end he really accomplished next to nothing.

[tip]

The problem with Leary is he didn’t have a Ph.D in "How to change the world". Otherwise he would have slipped his way in to the core of the united snakes and powers that be to engineer a different tactic for the same result.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good one!

[Nebiro]

I know that Leary has done a couple of errors on his quest. But without him, a lot of things would be different now.

I'm pretty sure the counter-culture would have been way weaker, and a lot of artist wouldn't have touched LSD. We may not have got Sgt. Pepper, or 2001 Space Odyssey, and the actual psychedelic culture (psychedelic rock, psytrance, etc) may not even exist.

I may be wrong, I wasn't born in the 60s and I may give too much credit to Leary. But I know for sure that LSD wouldn't have been that popular without him. Popularity of psychedelic made it illegal. But it also made it known to the whole world. Maybe a lot of you wouldn't have had the opportunity to try LSD if it wasn't for the huge impact it had on the 60s.

[Samadhi]

Leary did as much good for drugs as he did bad. He started a whirlpool and ended up becoming just another fizzed out old guy who writes about how we can change the world. Swim liked some of his writings but they are way too far out and unrealistic for swim to ever want to act on...

i know that if leary had not rubbed LSD in the governments face like a little boy plays with a big-ass dog we may have had more time with it.

but who knows eh?

[SpaceKitten]

I think that the wide spread LSD use he wa promoting had a positive impact for most part,
But its a very tragic thing that he by his actions hurt/destroyed the serious research/clinical projects, I dont really know of current legal research with it outside of the US, anyone know anything, it would be very interesting to read.

[Jatelka]

SpaceKitten: See here... http://www.maps.org/research/cluster/psilo-lsd/#swlsd

[biotech_rxn]

Regardless of what Leary did or didn't do....
the people that want and need to find these substances will find them.....
In the previous decades, information was harder to access, but everyone that hears of LSD does NOT need to do it. The curiosity will get to the right people..and they'll find it...

[enquirewithin]

Leary may have been right about Leary Biscuits!

Reputation Comments on this post:

lol leary biscuits

[Samadhi]

LOL right on, enquirewithin!

that brightened swims day.
all that ol' kook leary!

[candy_kid]

the straight up question being asked here I'd have to say yes, to a degree. Mr Leary was right in that psychs are good, but just like everything good- moderation is key and the social standard he managed to pass suggesting that your entire life could revolve around them I think was missing what psychedelics excel at- helping live life to it's fullest, not being life itself.

I dont think leary has much to do with larger topic this article trying to look at to be honest though; while he did spark up a drug revolution, his thing was much more about self exploration and understanding than towards the use of psychedelics for treatment or further 'scientific' understanding of the mind. He also focused a lot on creating a social norm in regular society by saying that these drugs were "ok", with speeches, his cult/following and whatnot. Announcing that mushrooms are used to treat OCD would get about as many kids doing mushrooms as ADD got people doing amphetamines -- ADD makes it easier to find amphetamines maybe, but its the social norm created by underground drug culture that really gets people doing them- a social norm that already exists beyond the fact that these medications are prescribed to people. We already have our timothy leary's- they're just less noisy and more common these days and these are the people who continue drug culture, not whether people are being treated in some psych hospital somewhere.

All the anti drugs I know would explain that they're not in pain if I asked if they'd be willing to try an opiate, and that they didn't have ADD if I asked if they wanted to try amphetamines- its the culture people identify themselves with, not whether someone somewhere is getting them for medical purposes.

Reputation Comments on this post:

great post; you have analyzed leary well

[Melalicious]

wow!! great stuff,

as many have said, doesnt matter if leary did good or bad things in ppls eyes, or if he took things to far with his ego, or was lighthearted about things others wernt, at least there was someone out there wanting to open everyones eyes to LSD and psychedelics! and image if we had him here today, with the way the world runs and works and is controlled, somethin swim thinks is interesting to think about!

swim is all for more LSD research, swim just finds the way it works and its effects fasinating!

[Panthers007]

Friends of mine used to invite him to parties down in the Lower East Side of NYC. It was always a riot. They'd throw Tim in a room full of 3-Piece-Suits and let him ply his trade. Kept giving him Scotch whiskey. A weird time was had by all - which was the premise. Apparently the good Dr. could see beyond his own games - once given his fill of alcohol.

Nonetheless: After a 40-year moratorium on psychedelic research - If the next Timothy Leary stands up, please shoot him! (Or at very least - wrap him up in duct tape foot to head and roll him in a closet until the research is well-established).

Reputation Comments on this post:

good response to a post which left my mouth ajar as I packed my bags to become a mountain hermit

[Lobsang]

Yes I agree. At this point a "new Leary" would set back progress. There is a possibility that LSD research will start again. Another Leary at this point would tip the scales back. Perhaps we need LSD to become integrated into psychotherapy and then after the therapists treat all the DEA, religious leaders and politicians they can open the doors for full integration of the planet. (OK OK I'm an optomist)