Poppy Tea Preparation

[HomerK]

100 will not last you a week, more than likely. Swim has been known to go through 30 in a day.

[e-spacecadet]

Ya, had 2nd thoughts after reading this guy's using 15 at a time.

HomerK is kind of like HomerJ (Simpson)

[e-spacecadet]

I saw some of your 'drying out period' posts last nt. That's admirable. X is a big baby when it comes to w/d's - couldn't do it. X tapered off heroin w/ the help of tiny doses of ms contin & darvon towards the end. Out of pills, so she will use pods this time instead.

I found some posts on other forums -- gave me a good idea about how much to order. They had # and size of pods/day, tolerance, ingestion route, and estimated morphine mg per pod. Quite interesting. X ended up ordering 75 of one kind and 100 of another.
I would like to try other extraction techniques than just hot water/tea. Freezing, acids... So many threads. Can you recommend a good read for these objectives:
effective and high % of opiate extraction (of course)
do not need to isolate specific alkaloid
end product which is rather low in volume (fit'g within a dropper bottle ideal)
relatively clean (but not to shoot or smoke--Maybe as sublingual?)
plus a secondary option that will provide the above, but also have a stable shelf life (say for a month)

I promise I'm not being lazy. Been reading for weeks. I have a junk-heap of a pc, and its a fight to just get & stay online. Takes hours to do just a little research. Thanks for your interest, suggestions.
Is CFO cooked flake O?
I'm learnding. "X" is my imaginary friend.

[waltz#2]

Whoever you know that wants to try this should please be careful when replacing an "O" of choice with PT, or other forms therein. Someone I dream about sometimes has read in other forums that in PT there are many other alkaloids that can cause addiction and withdrawl and can extend the length of WD symptoms once you try to kick the PT. There are many stories of people who try to stop H, or pharms only to find PT harder to get off of than their original substance of choice. There are likely success stories out there, but don't be fooled into thinking that just because it's less concentrated or "natural" it will be easy to stop.

ALWAYS start with a fraction of the dose that has been suggested. Content can vary from batch to batch, cup to cup, and even pod to pod. Even an extraction isn't a sure fire way of knowing what one has got without trying a small amount first. Common safe practices when using PT include grinding an entire lot (75 or 100 or whatever one has) of pods into one lump of homogenous powder, and drinking 1/4 (or less!) of the liquid created and waiting for 30-45min.

No one can tell how much of xyz someone is going to need to get 123 effects. Discussion of dosages can get fictional characters hurt pretty badly. Trial and safe avoidance of error are the best methods.

Good luck to X and please make sure she doesn't underestimate the effects of PT. : )

[e-spacecadet]

Yes, that is the plan exactly.

Swim's addicted to heroin. When she did a few really good tapers just decreasing H, + using kava for anxiety, she'd make up dropper-bottles-full and measure drops under tongue. (never really knew if it was well absorbed sublingually) The 'catch 22' was rarely having enuf $$ to fund another large, consistent batch to dose from. The panic, anxiety and pressure to hurry up and quit did her in those times. This time, the hope is, pods will be an economical & gradual (as swim needs to be) detox.
Swim's also excited to eliminate all the heroin-related shite and make fresh start with a whole new system. Swim knows even gradual tapers are work and she's ready to go all out to make this happen - but without feeling like an electrocuted ice cube.
Swim read about some of those other opium alkaloids being antagonists, which sounds beneficial - ?
Appreciate your wisdom.

[samuraigecko]

For informational purposes only . .

Narcotine - known to produce severe allergic reactions.

Thebaine - can be converted using specific acids into an active alkaloid.

Oripavine - Known to cause allergic reactions and severe stomach upsets.

Papaverine - Thought to also cause stomach upsets but is a mild muscle relaxant.

Morphine - mmmm . . . morphine (insert homer simpson drooling here)

Codeine - in raw alkaloidal form can produce a higher percentage of allergic reaction than when in a phosphate salt.


Cautions.
Depending on what type of acid is used to lower pH to facilitate extraction and / or improve taste will depend on if an alkaloid will react or bind to the said acid.

An example would be people wanting to acetylate their tea, thus making it more potent, using acetic acid. Some and perhaps in some cases all of the morphine content may be acetylated (6x potency of morphine alone) thus producing 6MAM ( molecular position 6 mono acetylated Morphine).

However, codeine also has a free hydroxyl group which can be acetylated. This will produce 6MAC (6 mono acetyl codeine) which is highly toxic and likely to produce adverse effects and even allergic reactions even in opiate tolerant peoples. Any other alkaloid with a free hydroxyl group is also likely to be acetylated and thus produce something that may not even be known as yet.

A THEORETICAL example would be:
SWIwe will theorize that papaverine (a mild sedative opiate alkaloid) has a free hydroxyl group at position 3. Acetylation of this position would result in the theoretical "3MAP" or "molecular position 3 mono acetylated papaverine". This new opioid is an unknown quantity if in theory it did exist and its actual pharmacology would not be known. The theoretical "3MAP" may be a FULL ON opiate with both strong sedative and narcotic effects. Then again it may be nothing at all (it is just conjecture after all) or it could actually be some weird neurotoxic poison . . . who knows, it is just a theory.

Ones point in this case is just to state that certain acids can produce certain results which are either known or unknown. It is not wise to use an acetic acid on PT because of the REAL 6MAC opiate produced. However it seems to be fine to use an ascorbic acid or citric acid.

Before testing any of these theories one can easily research what groups are effected by what acids, which alkaloids indeed HAVE which groups and what binds and what does not.

SWIWe know free hydroxyl groups will acetylate ....
(some easier than others, an example would be Morphine where position 6 acetylates easily with acetic acid but position 3 needs the stronger acetic andrahyde to acetylate even though it is still a free hydroxyl group)
... but what other groups are effected by which acids and in what way?

This is something SWIM intends to present very soon . . . .

Hope this has been of help or insight.

[deviant_one]

First post - I've lurked for a while and learned a lot.
Everyone else seems to know SWIM (he gets around!) but me.
However, I spoke with Archie Bunker today and he relayed his first attempt with poppy tea. Edith was playing bridge with her girlfriends so he and Meathead had a night to themselves.

He also shared pictures illustrating each step, but is unsure whether posting thumbnail links to his anonymous online stored images is appropriate within this thread...

- Started off with 10 grams of what were supposed to be organically grown naturally dried papaver somniferum tasmanian pods 2" to 2.5" around. Actual size was more like 1" to 1.5" around without seeds or stems.
- Pods were ground to a fine slightly chunky powder with an electric coffee grinder.
- Poured ground CPS into 600 ml of 6.8 pH tap water at 75 degrees Celsius.
- Steeped in water on stovetop at 75 degrees Celsius for 30 minutes.
- Poured through small wire mesh strainer to remove most of debris.
- Poured through 2 coffee filters to remove remaining debris.
- After filtering 520 ml (2 cups) of amber colored liquid remained.
- Added 1 tbsp of honey and 1 tsp of lime juice for flavor.
- Cooledat room temperature for a few minutes to drinkable temperature.
- Archie drank approximately 1/2 of the tea.
- Within 45 minutes he reported a mild euphoria, slight physical high, an annoying itchiness, and a peculiar effect - if he stopped moving for more than a minute or so he had to struggle to keep his eyes open. He had random bursts of energy to help clean up the mess he made. And he reports he slept VERY well last night.
He also noted he consumed a few glasses of the vino before, during, and after which seemed to intensify the euphoric effects. He woke up the next morning feeling still a bit itchy and noddy, a bit groggy, but not in the least hungover.
In his future attempts, Archie says he'll make a few changes:
- Though he has a digital thermometer to monitor temp, he has yet to buy a digital pH meter. The liquid testers seemed to be thrown off by the discoloration the amber liquid imparted to the colored test results (both dip-in strips and vial/drop type). He realized the money he spent on these two types of barely effective test kits together would have bought a nice electronic pH unit.
- He has read that pineapple juice may increase the effect of some of the desireable alkaloids so he will likely do some research on this. ?
- He is interested in any experimentation others have had isolated and removed whatever it is (annoying alkaloid!) that causes the itch and loss of eyelid motor control LOL. ?

Archie is also intending to try the CFO method using the 40 gram or so quantity of stems left the same batch of dried pods. He is unsure of whether the resulting CPS will yield enough to be worth his efforts. ? He seems more interested in the ease, control, and "ritual" of a smoking experience than the tea-drinking experience.
He wanted to pass on his deepest gratitude and appreciation for the amount of practical information this site offers.

d_one

[e-spacecadet]

He has read that pineapple juice may increase the effect of some of the desireable alkaloids so he will likely do some research on this. ?[/quote]

Did this have to do with the pineapple enzymes/bromelain helping break down the tea?

[samuraigecko]

The itching comes from a mild allergic reaction to certain alkaloids in the tea. As the body releases histamines to fight what it thinks is wrong, itchyness occurs. Codeine, Oripavine and Narcotine are thought to be the major causes of this. an imaginary 3 toed sloth told SWIM he is researching and working on a way to remove narcotine and oripavine while still keeping the other alkaloids intact.

The heavy eyelids is called "nodding" LOL . . . SWIyou will NEVER stop that with any opiate unless SWIyou become tolerant etc.

Hope this has been of help

[deviant_one]

Originally Posted by e-spacecadet

Did this have to do with the pineapple enzymes/bromelain helping break down the tea?

Archie believes that sounds correct.

Originally Posted by samuraigecko

The heavy eyelids is called "nodding" LOL . . . SWIyou will NEVER stop that with any opiate unless SWIyou become tolerant etc.

Archie will just have to get used to nodding - he has the perfect old reclining chair for it ! He'll be interested to see the results of the research...

Thanks!

[deviant_one]

Forgot to add, does anyone know if it's allowed to add thumbnail images in this thread?

[HomerK]

Swim supposes it is as long as they aren't links to a commercial website.

[Smokeycat]

My cat told me that he tried tea from poppy pods.....he's tried it from numerous vendors, different types, strains, etc......as long as they were the opiate family poppy, he had very good results with some patience....he also had built up quite a tolerance from heavy pharmacutical usage over an extended period of time, and even though he hated withdrawls, the tea helped very much. He has since made the CFO with good success, and even though he likes the speed it hits, he still enjoys the tea very much, and has aquired a taste for it.....he obviously doen't feel the effects like taking 250mgs of oxycodone, but it is nice to not be such a slave to it, and the warmth the tea give almost acts like a muscle relaxant as well, and it lasts for a very long time.....

A few secrets he's learned were that to avoid having to drink large volumes at once, a moderate dosage of tea, followed by another 2 hours later, then another 4 hours after that really gave a nice view without any sort of stomach discomfort what-so-ever.

And remember....this is hypothetical....The cat's usage is solely his, and SWIM was basing the dosages of poppy's and anything else on his tolerances and no-one elses. Please use caution if anyone else decides they want to try similar things......

SWIM has found that mixing the tea using 10-15 pods(usually about 3/4 to 1 cup of powdered pods using coffee bean grinder) is his usual start. He uses approx 2 cups of water and half to 3/4 cup of lemon juice. That is the key he thinks to flavoring it without the nastiness. Sugar almost makes the tea taste worse for some reason, although honey added to it is ok. The volume of lemon juice almost makes it like lemonade. He boils water, pours in the powder, takes off heat, then adds lemon juice, stirs, and covers. It sits for 45minutes, although he has let it sit over-night so he could get right to it in morning(damn junkie....). It works very well......dosages after that are usually halved if he chooses to have more later.......

From his experience, he has told SWIM that the pods that have higher 'M' contents hit harder, but do not last as long, and the ones with milder 'M' dosages have more of whatever it is that acts as a muscle relaxant, and give a longer warmth feeling....general over-all well being feeling. So regardless, his experiences have been good.....

He has also found that he can taper tea alot easier than pills and is able to go off for long periods without discomfort except the mental aspect of thinking about it.....so it has been a god-send....and when he needs pills, he no longer worries about the withdrawl period knowing the pods can help him through. Dosing tea in tapers has been easy as long as some discipline is used...........

Smokey really hopes that SWIY is able to find her way off the "H' without too many obstacles........non of it is fun being hooked to, but some it seems is worse than others, at least from SWIM;s experiences.............anyway cat's can help.........let them know............................

[samuraigecko]

For informational purposes a certain 3 toed sloth Doesnt know if this helps but Papaverine is considered to be a mild muscle relaxant and is a significant alkaloid found in P.somniferum and other species of poppy also such as rhoeas / californian / etc.

Hope this has been of help

[e-spacecadet]

Smokeycats idea of dividing the doses seems a very good idea. Also, the doses are similar to what others have said they used with a tolerence. (But swim still worried her starting dose might be 40 pods or something awful!)
Is there any reason to not make up enough for 2-3 days or so at a time?

Swim appreciates the personal experience related and feels encouraged and hopeful.
Thanks for the support.

[Smokeycat]

Originally Posted by e-spacecadet

Is there any reason to not make up enough for 2-3 days or so at a time?

Swim appreciates the personal experience related and feels encouraged and hopeful.
Thanks for the support.

Sometimes the batches in this area are kept for days with no problems....usually make it night before for the next days use.....Cats sometimes just let their's steep overnight, and then re--heat the next morning(not too hot!) before filtering....heating seems to help it filter better. Swim drinks it after filtering through cloth....he seems to like some of the finer particles in the tea hoping they are carrying more molecule that makes him itchy and happy.....

when making CFO, he filters again through coffee filters after the cloth to get the particles, and by doing it after, it goes through the filters better....

One has found that a shot or 2 of Vodka actually helps with the bitterness of the tea and also adds to the effects. He just adds it to the tea once it starts steeping. Kind of like a mini-laudnum......it's almost like both substances cancel out the other's flavor....no strong alcohol taste, and no strong bitter poppy taste.......

Swim also uses lemon juice in this tea, OR, he has found powdering up a few chewable vitamin C tabs and adding them adds flavor and helps with the extraction of alkoloids. Rember that most tea (at least kitty brand), is made with just 2-2 1/2 cups of water, which reaches a saturation point easily because he uses 3/4-1 cup of straw....so 2 cups isn't really enough to extract all the goodies by itself, but he has found that the lemon juice(1/3-1/2 cup) in his brew along with the shot of alcohol seems to have made his brew more potent than just water alone.

Probably the most effective tea would be to evaporate it out using Geko's method diluting the straw with lots of water, filtering, drying, and then re-dissolve the concentrated product in whatever it is you like to drink the most....

But it does take alot longer, and for some of us with no patience, the standard tea brew(along with a few tweaks) does work very well...........................SC

[samuraigecko]

In a hypothetical discussion for informational purposes . .

Originally Posted by Smokeycat

....heating seems to help it filter better....

SWIyou hit the nail on the head in the whole point of the thread. Heat expands things, Including the particles which one does not want in their CFO / CPT.

Originally Posted by Smokeycat

Probably the most effective tea would be to evaporate it out using Geko's method diluting the straw with lots of water, filtering, drying, and then re-dissolve the concentrated product in whatever it is you like to drink the most....

Ch33rs for the props SWIbro. This is also true because all of the crap is filtered out including some of the more undesirable alkaloids which are less soluble in water when CFO is used as the tea starter material.

Originally Posted by Smokeycat

But it does take alot longer, and for some of us with no patience, the standard tea brew(along with a few tweaks) does work very well...........................SC

This is true unfortunately. The CFO method does take time and patience but once the CFO is made, a tea can always be easily made from it immediately which just adds to the convenience experienced once the CFO method has been performed.

Hope this has (as always) helped

[e-spacecadet]

Originally Posted by Smokeycat

....he seems to like some of the finer particles in the tea hoping they are carrying more molecule that makes him itchy and happy.....

One has found that a shot or 2 of Vodka actually helps with the bitterness of the tea and also adds to the effects. He just adds it to the tea once it starts steeping. Kind of like a mini-laudnum......it's almost like both substances cancel out the other's flavor....no strong alcohol taste, and no strong bitter poppy taste.......

Swim also uses lemon juice in this tea, OR, he has found powdering up a few chewable vitamin C tabs and adding them adds flavor and helps with the extraction of alkoloids. Rember that most tea (at least kitty brand), is made with just 2-2 1/2 cups of water, which reaches a saturation point easily because he uses 3/4-1 cup of straw....so 2 cups isn't really enough to extract all the goodies by itself, but he has found that the lemon juice(1/3-1/2 cup) in his brew along with the shot of alcohol seems to have made his brew more potent than just water alone.

...for some of us with no patience, the standard tea brew(along with a few tweaks) does work very well...........................SC

Thanks for such so much good info. Swim takes it all in and feels lucky people, like you, as so willing to share. Itchy... scratchy... Mmmm.(LOL!)

[samuraigecko]

theoretically making that much would be fine if it was kept air tight and refrigerated.

[HomerK]

Gecko, is there any info as to the usefulness of adding calcium carbonate to the poppy tea as it steeps. Swim has read info here and there about using it to make the morphine more water soluble. Is there any truth to this or is swim getting bad info? Swim does not intend to seperate the morphine to make a base or anything, just to make sure the tea perperation is as strong as possible.

[RunDMT]

Swid started dabbling with seeds a few years ago and through trial and error has found that pod tea seems to always taste nastier when swid tries to alter the flavor to something more palletable. The only thing that swid likes is reducing the tea and then mib=xing it with pineapple juice. 6-8 medium sized pods reduced down to about 1/2 cup mixed with about 1 cup of juice seems to mask the flavor quite well as pineapple juice has a sharpness the works well with the bitterness of the tea.

[samuraigecko]

no source discussion, read the rules.

[newgrower]

Swim had one thing they wanted to add. If swiy is extremely lazy like swim, you can make poppy tea with a blender and a coffee maker. This is if being lazy is more important to swiy than maximum yield.

Just crush up some pods into the blender, blend on high until mostly powder. Then put in the coffee pot like you would coffee (use 2-3 filters). If a large pot, fill up two 2 cups water. When you start the coffee pot running, leave the pot out (most machines should hold the water in the cup where the poppy powder is if the coffee pot is not in the machine - added function so you can get a cup while coffee is brewing). Let it soak for 20-30 minutes then put the pot in the coffee maker and let the liquid drain. Take the coffee filters out of the machine, add a few more on the outside and squeeze the liquid into the pot (be careful, may be hot). Discard the stuff left in the filter.

This may not be the best method and most likely doesn't have the greatest yield but swim uses this method with good results and boy is that guy lazy.

[Vagisil]

^well just do the same with say 18 now. swim ordered from the same location, but diff. vendor. did a tea with 4 first. felt very lightly. then did the remaining 6. was ok. mild buzz, itch and everything. but swim really wanted to nod. so swim will order a 20 or 40 batch from diff. vendor and start with a tea of 10 pods and drink it right away.

[gargravarr]

Swim's preparation is as such (some tolerance):
He grinds up anywhere from 10 to 20 medium sized pods to a powder. Then fills a pot up with probably a liter and a half of hot water, adds powder, sometimes lemon juice, and puts it on the stove on the lowest heat setting for about 10 to 15 minutes, stirring well. Then he turns the heat off and puts in a couple tea bags of kava kava, which also has ginger in it. It is left soak for an additional half hour or so before filtering with a thin kitchen towel. The kava tea is added for a few reasons, first off it greatly alleviates stress before the pods even kick in, secondly is has enough ginger in it to rid of any and all stomach discomfort, allowing swim to chug it all in one sitting, AND it tastes great! Maybe swim does too many pods..