1,3-dimethylamylamine (geranamine)

[Nicaine]

Is this stuff a phenethylamine? If so, pls move the thread to the appropriate forum.

SWIM acquired a gram of the pure 1,3-dimethylamylamine, which is used in a bodybuilding product called "Amp" by Ergopharm. It is ostensibly a relatively unknown stimulant, discovered in the 1950s and abandoned at some point (others can elaborate if they want, I'm a bit sketchy on details).

Anyway, SWIM just finished an ill-advised extended binge on another substance, but couldn't help snorting a tiny line of this stuff when he received it -- probably around 10mg. He had just gotten out of bed and was still half asleep.

SWIM told me that snorting it burns a bit, but nothing serious. It seems to be "insufflatable" and this could be a recommended form of ingestion.

The stuff quickly woke SWIM up (expected), but what took him by surprise was an immediate and surprisingly strong euphoria, particularly for such a small dosage. At least in a small dose he noticed no rapid heartrate, sweating, jitters or other troublesome peripheral effects typical of some stimulants.

Given the euphoria, the stuff seems promising. Further research is called for, but it's going to be at least a week of downtime before SWIM indulges heavily in a stimulant again. Perhaps a few more tiny bumps to help his energy levels, but this won't indicate what higher doses would be like.

Posts from others who came across this stuff are welcomed, of course...

[snapper]

SWIM has also found it to be strong, but the peripheral side effects equally so. SWIM has tried 10 & 25 mg doses so far. SWIM has also had some unpleasant after-effects like headache and depression from it. Nothing serious, but could be with a binge. It is also a good pressor, meaning it raises blood pressure.
More to come over time, though SWIM is not in a place to experiment very much right now.

[Rush]

BTW its not a PEA
cant find around images for the chemical structure but is so simple that i can imagine it on my own:

1,3-dimethylamylamine is relatively a simple molecule if compared to PEAs

has the skeletonof amylamine that if im right is also Pentan-1-amine(5 chain carbon + NH2 at the end)

to this are added two methyl groups in 1 and 3 positions.(correct me if i'm wrong)

so its completely different from PEAs

BTW very interesting what you say about euphoria. i think swim is gonna get a try to this one(is also very cheap this one)

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM has also found it to be strong, but the peripheral side effects equally so.

Which ones? SWIM has no blood pressure cuff, but he noticed absolutely no increase in his heart rate from the stuff (propylhexedrine has his heart doing maybe 120/minute at times). Could be he just didn't dose high enough to get much in the way of peripheral sides.

The question on SWIM's mind is: Where does this stuff fall in terms of both potency and enjoyability, between say ephedrine and methamphetamine? ISO, propylhexedrine is in the middle and maybe 3/5 in the direction of amphetamines... from SWIM's very limited experimentation so far, he thinks this stuff is a good deal better. Not to mention it seems to lack the strong local vasoconstrictor effects of propylhexedrine, which is a very good thing.

[allyourbase]

a lot of people compare amp to amphetamine, however amp also contains methylhexaneamide, which is more chemically alike to methamphetamine or racemic amphetamine than is geranamine.

[snapper]

This stuff primarily boosts norepi, and consequently has all the pressor effects without the increase in heartrate. The two do NOT necessarily go together. Norepi is not the most desireable recreational catecholamine, though for bodybuilders interested in thermogenic weight loss drugs, it is desireable.
It would be nice to have two comparative structures for 1,3-dimethylamylamine and methylhexaneamine for comparative purposes. SWIM needs to sit down and do this because both are referred to as geranamine. SWIM will post later if someone else does not first (not always the quickest with new IUPAC names...). SWIM thinks that they are the same thing...
They are the same. As far as I can tell from a brief check, an amyl group is a 5 carbon group. An amyl with a methyl group at position 1 is the same as hexane. Both carry amines (position unspecified, but primary) and a methyl group at position 3 (unspecified with the latter). Anyone know the position of the amine (SWIM guesses that it is the end of the chain, or 6) ?

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

This stuff primarily boosts norepi, and consequently has all the pressor effects without the increase in heartrate.

Can you provide a source for the above info? If it's true and I'd known, I wouldn't have wasted even 25 cents on a gram of the stuff, let alone $10.00 or whatever it cost, because it would be interchangeable with epinephrine tablets and other worthless crap like that.

But I've never felt euphoria from ANY specific norepinephrine booster/reuptake inhibitor, so I tend to doubt what you say is accurate. Norepinephrine does not feel euphoric, it feels jittery, agitated, anxious, edgy, etc.

[snapper]

Do a websearch. There is a long thread about it on a bodybuilding forum. SWIM does not remember the ref offhand but SWIM originally looked it up and it is primarily norepi. SWIM can say that many of these catecholamines are sloppy so may still have potential, but SWIM can say subjectively that no dopamine was felt with this product.
Note that ephedrine has no central norepi- activity while methylhexaneamine does, making them different.

[Nagognog2]

Originally Posted by snapper

This stuff primarily boosts norepi, and consequently has all the pressor effects without the increase in heartrate. The two do NOT necessarily go together. ?

That was the first thing Bongo noted from test-piloting 30mg orally. He says it had the same behind-the-eyes euphoria and pleasant lift of nor-epinephrine. And, for Bongo, no nasty peripheral stimulation. He figured it might be useful if one was sleepy and had another few hours to go while driving and caffeine had worn out it's welcome.

On the other paw, once it starts to wear away (3-ish hours), it caused drowsiness - even if being tired wasn't natural at the time.

Last Analysis: It remains a curio.

[snapper]

Nag, are the two iupacs the same, and if the amine position is not specified, is it the terminal position in the molecule.
BTW, SWIM also noticed the drowsiness but certainly agrees there is a nice central activity, just not involving dopamine as far as SWIM can tell, other than maybe allowing more dopamine to accumulate due to increase in norepi levels. ?

[sam o]

The affects seems to be somewhat, similar to MDPV.
Does anyone want to guess to whether it would pass all drug tests and screenings?

[snapper]

SWIM does not find it similar to MDPV at all other than the stimulation. No real dopamine rush or euphoria and the physical side effects are greater. MDPV does not have much of a body load, even in higher doses (not until afterwards, that is...).
It should pass all drug tests, though don't take SWIMs word for it...

[Nagognog2]

CH3CH2CH(CH3)CH2CH(NH2)CH3 (tricky lil' devil, ain't it?)

Methylhexaneamine. LD50 i.p. in mice - 185mg/kg. Therapeutic Catagory: Adrenergic. Patents 1944, 1945 to Lilly - trade name is/was: Forthane.

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM does not find it similar to MDPV at all other than the stimulation. No real dopamine rush or euphoria and the physical side effects are greater.

SWIM doesn't find it similar to MDPV either, but in his opinion it has a definite dopaminergic component. And a stronger one than propylhexedrine, which also has some obvious effects on dopamine (in SWIM's not-so-humble opinion, which is based on long/extensive personal experience and research).

SWIM definitely got euphoria and very notable central stimulation with this stuff (significantly more-so than peripheral), which makes me wonder if maybe snapper is dosing his lab rats too high. Drugs that have some peripheral sides often tend to become peripherally overwhelming at higher doses, enough to mask the (much more subtle) central effects.

Anyway, it's not unusual for a substance to have wildly varying opinions, effects-wise. MDPV was particularly fascinating in that regard, everything from "it did almost nothing" to "I was awake and rolling for two weeks straight." Even scientists and pharmaceutical companies disagree quite a bit on this sort of thing... se la vie, I guess.

P.S. SWIM tells me that snorting a decent-sized line produces a really powerful rush, which could be interesting to a few intrepid souls, perhaps. It's also pretty painful on the nose and tastes/smells bad, so SWIY should be prepared if they're interested. It's not as bad as propylhexedrine, which is not only painful but literally un-snortable.

[sam o]

This would have to be considered an amphetamine.Right?

[Nagognog2]

No this substance is not an amphetamine. Quite far removed chemically speaking.

[snapper]

SWIM tried snorting and found it to be MUCH more effective than oral, and onset time. Burns but for very short time - probably better mode of admin, though could be much more prone to OD, which SWIM suspects is a realistic risk. SWIM has only tried a 5mg + 5mg dose so far, and finds the effect more pleasant than oral admin. Effect lasted about 4 hours with a rapid comedown. There was a nice euphoric rush for about an hour after insufflation. SWIM thinks that the bioavailablility off the product, or maybe the time of onset, is better when taken parenterally. SWIM thinks there may be more potential in combination with other chems, like maybe MDPV. SWIM plans higher dose trials first before venturing into combinations, but suspects an added dopamine component may really kick up the euphoria.
What mode of administration has SWINicaine's rats employed so far ? Perhaps oral is not optimal with this product ??
Snapper's rats dosed at 35mg tops so far orally, BTW, which is far from excessive.

Reputation Comments on this post:

	informative
	Thanks for all the input in this thread.

[sam o]

Is 1,3-dimethylamylamine similar to methylhexaneamine, affect wise?
What's the difference between to two

[Rush]

this is the structure?:

........CH3........ CH3
.........|........... |
NH2--CH--CH2--CH2--CH2--CH3

[snapper]

Read the previous posts Sam o. They are the same thing with 2 different IUPAC names.. Nag posted the structure already in his last post..

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by snapper

SWIM tried snorting and found it to be MUCH more effective than oral, and onset time.

SWIM agrees... onset can be measured in seconds via insufflation.

Burns but for very short time - probably better mode of admin, though could be much more prone to OD, which SWIM suspects is a realistic risk. SWIM has only tried a 5mg + 5mg dose so far, and finds the effect more pleasant than oral admin. Effect lasted about 4 hours with a rapid comedown. There was a nice euphoric rush for about an hour after insufflation.

Definitely by far the better recreational method of use, if the pain can be dealt with. It does only burn for a short time, but (depending on individual pain sensitivity) some may find the subsequent effects not worth the burn.

And SWIM agrees again, there's a "rapid comedown" afterward. Worthy of being called a crash, and quite unpleasant an one at that. SWIM will probably try this stuff one more time, and if the comedown is as bad as the first he's throwing the rest away -- it was that nasty.

[Broshious]

Originally Posted by Nicaine

SWIM agrees... onset can be measured in seconds via insufflation.

Definitely by far the better recreational method of use, if the pain can be dealt with. It does only burn for a short time, but (depending on individual pain sensitivity) some may find the subsequent effects not worth the burn.

And SWIM agrees again, there's a "rapid comedown" afterward. Worthy of being called a crash, and quite unpleasant an one at that. SWIM will probably try this stuff one more time, and if the comedown is as bad as the first he's throwing the rest away -- it was that nasty.

SWIM wonders if anyone has tried first dissolving the substance in water. Today SWIM put 50mg of it in 10ml of water and proceeded to use an atomizing syringe to snort it up his nose. No burning whatsoever. He certainly noticed effects but they don't seem as extreme as what has been said here. Is this a good method or should SWIM stick to eating it?

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Broshious

SWIM wonders if anyone has tried first dissolving the substance in water. Today SWIM put 50mg of it in 10ml of water and proceeded to use an atomizing syringe to snort it up his nose. No burning whatsoever. He certainly noticed effects but they don't seem as extreme as what has been said here. Is this a good method or should SWIM stick to eating it?

Depends what SWIY means by 'good'... if it works well and doesn't burn too much, go for it... SWIM definitely prefers that method with certain substances. Making the solution stronger (i.e. more than 50ml/10ml) should result in stronger effects for the given amount sniffed, but may also burn more.

[Rush]

somebody tried sub-lingual route? may be just a little more faster&effective than oral but it may help.


I was worried about comedown(as with most stimulants) how you rate it? strong,depressing,managble long lasting, crash, hyperletargia, aftrerglow(when monkey is not letargic but feels residual enjoyable stimulation effects for a certain time)...

[snapper]

SWIM really likes the short duration of action and is finding this particular chem more inviting as time goes on. SWIM feels that the effect of a solid dose of MDPV is too distracting - SWIM's mind becomes very obsessive and self-indulgent. With 1,3- dimethylamylamine, SWIM is not distracted and can focus on less interesting tasks. SWIM finds that the body load SWIM got from this the first time around is not repeatable and SWIM has had no problems with repeated dosing except the usual stimulant sides. SWIM is liking the insufflation technique and will probably make an atomizer. SWIM has also noted that 1,3- dimethylamylamine raises SWIM's BP more than other stimulants, bu not heartrate and no pupil dilation.
SWIM is unsure as to the receptor system this product is operating in, but SWIM is feeling good while using. The effect is different than MDPV and does not share many of the more euphoric qualities, but does make SWIM upbeat, productive and does not keep SWIM up all night. This seems to subjectively be very close to the special component of AMP. SWIM hopes it will stay around for a while and that no one does anything stupid with it...
Also, it mixes well with kratom at lowish doses of both..