Swim wants to IM K

[eveilsteve]

Swim and his friend want to im k to reach a good k hole.
Both have been using k for a year or more but neither have fully k holed or used a needle for recreational drug use.

Swim gets (well apears like) clean k in crystal form so will need to pepare it for injection.

Can someone please advise swim on recomened water to k ratios and which syringes to use. Also any advice for a first time needle user.
thanks

[primal440]

This can all be found by browsing a little onf the ketamine subforum but to answer your questions:

Just use 1 or 2 mls of distilled water per 100 mgs of K, which can be found in the form of ampoules at SWIY's local pharmacy, where he migh also ask for an "Intramuscular Syringe" of needle gauge 21 and a half.

Anything useful for a first time needle user can be found at here by using the search engine. SWIM can just say to look for the most fleshy part on he surface where injection will be done, to inject the needle more than 2/3 in and to pull the plunger to see SWIM has not hit an artery. But this is all basic stuff, UTFSE.

[psychedelaholic]

SWIM is in almost the exact same situation as you. He has been doing K for a bit over a year, wants to inject IM and has never used a needle on himself. However he has been in many many K holes through insufflation of large amounts of ketamine. He is annoyed at needing to snort around a gram to get into a proper k hole and would like a more effective route of adminstration. He's is looking on the internet for needles now. Is SWIM right in thinking he can inject liquid K without needing to first cook it up then redissolving it in dH2O?

[primal440]

No need to "cook it up". Ketamine readily dissolves in water and better yet in dH2O if you're an asceptic and righteous person.

What is this about looking on the internet for needles? Do you mean info or buying?

[Beltane]

Originally Posted by primal440

This can all be found by browsing a little onf the ketamine subforum but to answer your questions:

Just use 1 or 2 mls of distilled water per 100 mgs of K, which can be found in the form of ampoules at SWIY's local pharmacy, where he migh also ask for an "Intramuscular Syringe" of needle gauge 21 and a half.

Anything useful for a first time needle user can be found at here by using the search engine. SWIM can just say to look for the most fleshy part on he surface where injection will be done, to inject the needle more than 2/3 in and to pull the plunger to see SWIM has not hit an artery. But this is all basic stuff, UTFSE.

A few corrections: Buy distilled water at a grocery store, in a big gallon container. No need to buy anything in an ampule, which BTW is bacteriostatic water, not distilled water. Most needle exchanges give out sterile water as well.

When a person buys K in crystal form, it usually comes in a one gram package. Mix 1 gram with exactly 10ml of distilled water and then you have 100mg/ml. The perfect dose, in SWIM's opinion, is 100mg IM.

Idiotproof IM injection: pick an ass cheek. divide it vertically in half and horizantally in half. Shoot in the upper-outer quadrant.

Put needle all the way in (SWIM does it fast, like a dart.) Pull back to see if SWIY hit a VEIN (not an artery. If one hits an artery, they'll scream and know it.) Pulling back there should be no blood and a sort of vacuum effect. Plunge away.

Final correction: 21.5 gauge needle?! OMFG! Are you CRAZY! Use an insulin syringe, 28 or 29 gauge. SWIY will feel almost nothing, like a mosquito bike. There is such a thing as a 30 gauge insulin syringe that SWIM would at least try if he ever had access. 21.5 gauge is a garden hose.

Also, If SWIY is snorting a gram to hit a K-hole, start with 100mg first time, but have not fear of going to 150 on next one (after first wears off.) SWIM has done, well, let's just say lots of IM K and starts at 150 to 200mg.

EDIT: I realized I typed all this up before in a great thread a while back with some other folks. http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/sho...047#post150047

- Beltane

[primal440]

Actually, the only mistake SWIM tells he sees in my last post is that comment about hitting an artery instead of a vein... sorry, he was distracted at the time and put one for the other, but it still is possible to hit an artery, altho highly unlikely compared to hitting a vein.

Then SWIM tells me this:
Where he lives, you can get (bi)distilled water almost everywhere, the most usual being gas stations and pharmacies. When SWIM needs water for just 10 mls worth of solution (100mg/ml) he buys ampoules from his local pharmacy, which is indeed bidistilled water for parenteral injection solutions and not bacteriostatic water. A gallon is the choice if dealing with bulk.

Some people insert the whole needle in their injection area, others put most of it, there's no "official" stance here since it would vary from person's physical shape and spot to inject. But putting the solution too close to surface will make it a bit more painful and more prone to bruising, as the spot chosen was not fleshy enough to efficiently catch all the liquid. That is why SWIM wonders how SWIBeltane has managed to pull this off with an insuline needle, a thing that strikes him as rather odd since the 28/29 G needles he knows are too short and delicate to cross some parts of skin and beyond. It makes sense then, that SWIBeltane darts his syringe.

SWIM acknowledges the differences between needle gauges, and he is comfortable with 21,5 G needles as its the standard gauge a pharmacist will sell you for an IntraMuscular syringe, probably not that necessary to use such a big "garden hose", but at least in the thighs, where SWIM always does it he prefers using something big, a 25 G needle is perfect for this. SWIM is sure it is mch more uncommon to encounter people injecting intramuscularly with intravenous designed syringes than not.

Next time gonna try SWIBeltane's 29 G needle suggestion (now it makes sense when SWIM reads the statement of "you won't feel a thing, just like a mosquito bite..."). It might be that he did a great finding, as this never occured to SWIM: Where does SWIB usually injects his K? Would it work in every area or just in the softer skin ones?

Reputation Comments on this post:

I disagree, but you hold your own well and with class

[Beltane]

Artery/vein, easy mistake to make when distracted. No problem.

SWIM didn't take into account where SWIY lives. In the U.S. you can't get distilled water in vials from a pharmacist, let alone "intramuscular needles" (or any other kind of needles in most states with proof of being a diabetic.) So what SWIY says about water is very possible, though SWIM still asks, when a gallon on distilled water costs $1 and can be picked up at the grocery store, why bother with anything else?

Not sure SWIM understands the rest of what SWIY says about the water, but SWIY is correct, only some of the water that comes in ampules (and SWIM actually meant vials- 10 ml SWIM thinks-- is bacteriostatic water.)

SWIM still is baffled why a person would go to a pharmacy to get distilled water you can get for practically free from a grocery. Just because it's a gallon, SWIY can still just suck out 10ml. But here in the U.S. pharmacists are not helpful and would not help you procure distilled water in vials, so maybe that's the difference.

SWIY QUOTE:"Some people insert the whole needle in their injection area, others put most of it, there's no "official" stance here since it would vary from person's physical shape and spot to inject. But putting the solution too close to surface will make it a bit more painful and more prone to bruising, as the spot chosen was not fleshy enough to efficiently catch all the liquid. That is why SWIM wonders how SWIBeltane has managed to pull this off with an insuline needle, a thing that strikes him as rather odd since the 28/29 G needles he knows are too short and delicate to cross some parts of skin and beyond. It makes sense then, that SWIBeltane darts his syringe."

SWIM RESPONSE: "Everyone SWIM knows, whether it's K or steroids, puts the needle in to the hilt/all the way. SWIY is looking to do an intraMUSCULAR injection, that means always going through a layer of fat, however thing. So go all the way in. SWIM has never noticed pain when shooting K as descirbed. SWIM doesn't bruise, unless he runs out of needles and has to use the same one way too many times. SWIM has injected forearms, calves, thighs, lats, triceps, deltoids and glutes and may be forgetting a few spots. SWIM is lean, but not that lean. 28/29 gauge insulin syringes are shorter than 23/25 gauge intramuscular syringes (which SWIM used this weekend and noticed absolutely no difference except more pain.) After repeated use, 29 gauge are too flimsy and bend or just don't hold up well. SWIM's EXTREMELY well considered opinion is that 28 guage is perfect. Also, deltoids and glutes are SWIM's injection spots of choice, in that order.

Maybe SWIY is inserting his needle at an angle? Insterting directly in perpendicular to the injection site will get a user plenty deep enough with an insulin syringe. And further, it's supposed to me an intraMUSCULAR injection, but stick a 28 gauge inslulin syringe straight into a fat person's ass and push the plunger- the K will end up injected into the fat and you know what? It'll still work just fine. SWIM has witnessed first hand plenty of times.

The only advantage SWIM sees again, with a larger gauge (and longer) needle, is more pain. The rush isn't better, doesn't come on faster or laster longer. It's indistinguishable. So go for 28 gauge and save SWIY the pain.

SWIY QUOTE: SWIM acknowledges the differences between needle gauges, and he is comfortable with 21,5 G needles as its the standard gauge a pharmacist will sell you for an IntraMuscular syringe, probably not that necessary to use such a big "garden hose", but at least in the thighs, where SWIM always does it he prefers using something big, a 25 G needle is perfect for this. SWIM is sure it is mch more uncommon to encounter people injecting intramuscularly with intravenous designed syringes than not."

SWIM RESPONSE: Thigh/calf injections, with any neede size, give SWIM the greatest amount of pain after the trip is over. SWIM does delts first and glutes second and after thousands of trips and endless experimentation, he considers this the only way to go. Also remember, pharmacists in the U.S. won't sell a person any syringe, intramuscular or otherwise. In the U.S. people go to needle exchanges where they have 28/29 gauge mainly for IV users and 3ml 25 gauge for steroid users, which again SWIM has experimented with and noticed ZERO difference apart from the additional pain. 2 more things, 21.5 is massive and would scare about anyone. Would at least make SWIM wince. Second, SWIM knows several IM K users in the U.S. with accesss to 23, 25, 28 or 29 g needles. 90% go with 28 g, 10 % (the girls mostly go with the 29. NO ONE uses the "actual" intramuscular needles and as SWIM has said, and he would KNOW, there's no difference.

SWIY QUOTE:Next time gonna try SWIBeltane's 29 G needle suggestion (now it makes sense when SWIM reads the statement of "you won't feel a thing, just like a mosquito bite..."). It might be that he did a great finding, as this never occured to SWIM: Where does SWIB usually injects his K? Would it work in every area or just in the softer skin ones?

SWIM RESPONSE: Will work anywhere. Stick with outer deltoids first off, very easy in every regard. Next go to glute (upper/outer quadrant.) After that, and SWIM rarely strays from these 2 areas anymore, can go with thighs next. Calves tend to hurt the next day. Thighs too tho not as much. Can also do triceps about as easy as delts. Trust SWIM, you won't go back to your normal needles.

One final thing. Experimented latedly with 28 vs. 29. Go with 28, especially if you plan to use more than once, which happens here in U.S. where needles aren't sure easy to come by.

My vibe may be aggressive, but I dig your posts. You stand your ground and you're open-minded and willing to try new things. I think you'll be happy you tried it this way. Please let SWIM know.

- Beltane

Reputation Comments on this post:

Fair play, extensive knowledge and very good/wise suggestions. Hopefully will be put to use soon again.

[primal440]

Well, Beltane was absolutely right about intramuscular injections with insuline syringes (29 G over here). It's painless, quick and overall better. The most notable change from the usual thigh injections though was the quicker onset of the drug: SWIM usually has 2 to 3 minutes to set things up and lay down to begin the journey. This time, when he first injected 50 mgs in 1 ml in the left outer deltoid, as soon as he took the needle out he was already being pulled by the incredible force of the Ketamine, he was still able to put 50 mgs more on his left arm and even put a little extra booster but it is here when all things went wrong: His judgement was already severely impaired during the second shot and he fucking lost his precious K to the floor & stomach gods by some clumsy motions. Of course this doesn't have anything to do with the method itself but I just had to put it. SWIM used the 29 G syringe 3 times with no problem, the third time tho' it hurted a little when injecting. So yeah, stick with the insulin syringe and be careful or you might also lose your K.

[eveilsteve]

Swim got some 28 g needles. First he did a .5ml 50mg injection in his left deltoid (the inital onset semt quite prolonged) and the same in his right once he started to come down a little. Swim wasnt sure if he actually enjoyed it. He said it wasnt bad though.. But it didnt feel good either. He also said he was quite suprised by how painles it was.

About a week later he did a 1ml 100mg injection in the same spot. He said it was a much deeper trip but again wasnt quite sure if he liked it.

And after another week swim decided to IV the k. He said enjoyed the quicker onset and felt the trip was more clear (he stuggled to remeber in detail the first two experiences) although it seemed to swim that this was better quality k (the origial stuff tasted cut with something and wasnt in crystal form)

All in all swim said he found the experience very interesting but not pleasurable and much prefers small amount intranasally. But, at the same time he is sure he will do it again.