Opinions - 2008 USA election..who should drug users support?

[thenumber7]

which candidate should a drug user support?...who will be the most beneficial to a drug user and has relatively decent views on drugs in general?

i anticipate your responses because whoever does has my vote. Legalizing drugs is the most important issue in this country besides the war in the middle east!

[thenumber7]

cmon there has to be one potential candidate out there with good views!

[Nagognog2]

I hope no one seriously considers using the position on drugs a politician says in public as the basis for voting. The Republikan fascists would love that! It would split the vote and we'd get 4-More-Years of Mussolini & Co.

[baudmax]

Ron Paul is the best guy around out there I've seen talking about running for President (the rest are pretty much psychopaths), pretty much across the board. Read his positions in his own words and see for yourself, he is one of the very few long term proven advocates of liberty within the exisiting government.

http://www.house.gov/paul/
http://www.myspace.com/ronpaul2008
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

The War on Drugs Is a War on Doctors
Ron Paul on the federal assault on people in pain and their physicians.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul179.html

The Feds Are a Bunch of Sick Puppies
Ron Paul on the war on pain relief.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul157.html

Ron Paul on Liberty
And a wise consistency for freedom.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul155.html

Free Trade in Pharmaceuticals
Ron Paul stands tall against protectionism.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul115.html

The Federal Drug Bully
Ron Paul on unconstitutional DC meddling in state and local elections.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul96.html

The full archive of Ron Paul's writings can be found at to gain further insight
http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

Dogpile Web Search Results for "ron paul war on drugs"
http://www.dogpile.com/info.dogpl/se...17/top/-/-/-/1

Peace and Divinity
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[Darksanity]

This guy is awesome!! Is there anyone like this in Canada? There may be Canadian elections soon, and I'm sick of the Conservative fuckers... Maybe NDP?

[Nagognog2]

Unfortunately, here in the Untied Snakes at least, voting for the best person is the equivalent of voting for the worst person. Idealism has no place near the voting-booth in a Bush Amerika.

[Pinkavvy]

Dont vote republican.
People will argue, "hey it's about the issues not voting down the party line." Those people are dumb. It would be great if that's how things worked, but it's not. Despite what the candidates personal policies are, they will always uphold the policies of the party they belong to, reprisent, and are funded by. The republican party is the worse party when it comes to keeping drugs illegal, penalty's up, and keeping the drugs they sell the only legal ones available.

Democrats aren't MUCH better at all, but they are the lesser of the two evils. Yes there are better candidates out there, but none of them have a chance at all so don't bother wasting your vote on them. A vote used on an independant candidate is one less vote that could be used defeating the republican party.

Democrats are more likely to uphold the 10th amendment, therefore allowing states to choose their own medical marijuana laws. Democrats are more likely to reduce prison penalties for non-violent drug arrests, and democrats are more likely to promote a society that is liberal enough to pass local medical marijuana laws.

The only choices are republicans and democrats, unless you want to throw your vote away. When it comes to drug users, the demacrats are the lesser of the two evils.

[allyourbase]

ron paul believes the civil war shouldnt have been fought... he also believes in flat personal tax and dissolution of corperate tax...which is unconstitutional. although income tax is itself, unconstitutional... "congress shall legislate no unapportioned tax against its citizens" and all that. "corperate personhood" further raping the working class.

[Nagognog2]

Get out of my head, Pink! LOL.

[Pinkavvy]

Seriously folks, voting for anybody other then whoever the democrats decide is their front runner is the SAME THING as voting for the republicans.

For anybody out there who doesn't already know: <b>the reason Bush one his second term (just barely) is because of the idiots who thought they would vote for a alternative party, therefore taking the much needed last few votes away from Kerry - who was the only person who had a chance of defeating Bush. Those people might as well have not voted at all or voted for Bush.

If your goal is to not have another Bush chronie republican, which it should be if you support drugs at all, then your only option is to vote democrat.

Put it this way, a vote for anybody other then the democrat that could actually win it away from the republicans is basically taking a vote away from the democrats and letting the republicans win again.

[jesusfreak666er]

It pains swim greatly to agree with pink however any vote for someone who is not a member of the big 2 parties is a vote in the trash.... although its ur right to do so, I think it is wiser to choice the lesser of two evils than look for a jem floating amongst the scum (swim's acid fueled take on politics)

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by jesusfreak666er

It pains swim greatly to agree with pink however any vote for someone who is not a member of the big 2 parties is a vote in the trash.... although its ur right to do so, I think it is wiser to choice the lesser of two evils than look for a jem floating amongst the scum (swim's acid fueled take on politics)

And a vote for tweedle-dee or tweedle-dumb has ever produced what sort of outcome?

ANSWER: The dreadful situation we now have. The dreadful situation we have had. The dreadful situation we will continue to have.

Rudy v. Hillary

If these be the pathetic shameful choices, why even bother to vote? Psycho A or Psycho B... does it matter what sychophantic narcissist gets elected? If philosophy and ideology.. reality itself even, means nothing in an election, why the pretense? Why waste everyone's time on the circus? With an electorate like this, why should anyone with integrity waste their time running for office at all... to risk one's privacy, standing, resources and liberty to take on such a task? And then you all complain about getting Korporape Stooge A or KorpoRape Stooge B... and the police state... the looting... the tyranny more overt and in your face with every passing day.. even speaking your mind now is risky in AmeriKKKa...

I find it oddly interesting that people will find one or two strances they don't agree with an otherwise amazing candidate, and instead side with the status quo liars knowing what is in store for them.

Frankly, if a candidate with integrity stands no chance at all, then the electoral process is pointless, and we've no further resort than arms. Stop begging and groveling for liberty and start demanding it!

Peace and Liberty
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

[Nagognog2]

Oh Baud - go vote for whatever...but you are tossing a vote in the trash if you vote for one of the myriad non-mainstream candidates. And yes it sucks! If you want to change the system, start at home in Vermont. We just sent Bernie to Washington as a Senator. That's a start! But with $100 million Republikan candidates running for president, surely you can do the math and see that has to be defeated a priori. Or do you really think this nation would vote for Timothy Leary fresh after putting Adolf Hitler in office - TWICE?!

[allyourbase]

Bush and kerry are blood cousins. not to mention theyre members of the same fraternity which consists of no more than 13 persons per year. kerry threw the election. everyone was waiting for him to really take bush to task, which of course he did not. theyre both neocons and though I only know for a fact that bush is a satanist, I highly suspect kerry is too, being a part of the occult "skull & bones" brotherhood.

I also forgot to mention that ron paul believes 911 would have never happened had the government "the foresight" to allow citizens to carry firearms on airflights. Im guessing "explosive decompression" isnt a phrase hes familiar with.

[Nagognog2]

After I move to Greenland, I hope the idiots in this country elect Lyndon LaRouche. With Rev. Moon as the veep.

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Oh Baud - go vote for whatever...but you are tossing a vote in the trash if you vote for one of the myriad non-mainstream candidates. And yes it sucks! If you want to change the system, start at home in Vermont. We just sent Bernie to Washington as a Senator. That's a start! But with $100 million Republikan candidates running for president, surely you can do the math and see that has to be defeated a priori. Or do you really think this nation would vote for Timothy Leary fresh after putting Adolf Hitler in office - TWICE?!

My vote goes in the trash no matter what it seems, but I do not delude myself otherwise; I will vote my conscience or I won't vote at all, because the only other option is de facto legitimization of the people I most despise. I am considering something serious in Vermont, as my feelers tell me it is ripe here moreso than about anywhere at this time (I was after all, drawn here for a purpose). It's time to cut the head off the Federal Beast, it is time to defend those close at home from the excesses. If you look at the VT Constitution very carefully, you may see some possibilities, I know it has given me some novel ideas. The problem lies in an unresponsive cadre in the District of Kriminals. You won't ever beat a korporate whore, playing the korporate whore game. You can't beat the house, you know. But you can call a spade a spade. Reality is getting harder to deny, it is increasingly breaking through all the media BS, and very soon it will literally be falling on everyone's heads. I needn't spell out what is on the way, your can read it between the lines all day long on TV, the flood of frantic posts and bulletins, you can smell it palpably in the air and it's not good, and everyone knows it viscerally.

Extraordinary times require extraordinary stratagems. If you play in their court you lose everytime, guaranteed. I can only hope you will vote your conscience if you are ever presented a candidate who would truly represent the embodiment of those ideals which you claim to cherish. Liberty has argued for too long by rational rhetoric, and lost the spine of passion.

Fighting for liberty means more than voting for the lesser of two evils. You (as every entity) have more power than you give yourself credit for to change the mass state of mind, to define what is acceptible or not acceptible. Freedom, or Eternal Slavery my friends, what do you choose?

Peace and Divinity
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

Reputation Comments on this post:

	Damn right Brother
	perfectly argued

[Nagognog2]

I am all for secession from the USA, Baud. Which is still being argued in Montpelier (state cap. of Vermont) as you likely know. Other than that, we will end up with one of the ghouls. While arguing with patriotic ferver for a change by voting one's true beliefs is great rhetoric, it is impartical in the current epoch. Four more years of the neo-con fascists, with an exponential-curve of global-warming, is fatal for many species down the food-chain. That means US. Slowly. While they build their gated communities on stilts.

I understand your idealism. But I also understand realism. Such is why I hold my nose when I vote - usually.

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

I am all for secession from the USA, Baud. Which is still being argued in Montpelier (state cap. of Vermont) as you likely know. Other than that, we will end up with one of the ghouls. While arguing with patriotic ferver for a change by voting one's true beliefs is great rhetoric, it is impartical in the current epoch. Four more years of the neo-con fascists, with an exponential-curve of global-warming, is fatal for many species down the food-chain. That means US. Slowly. While they build their gated communities on stilts.

I understand your idealism. But I also understand realism. Such is why I hold my nose when I vote - usually.

The key seems to me that we are poised upon an epochal fulcrum of change without precedent in human history to this date... when the dynastic system has finally begun to expose itself for the filthy thing it truly always has been. The time for all good persons to ask themselves what is right, what is true? I You Us We, wives, lovers, children, families .. everything I cherish in this world as I think most of you do too hangs in the balance of monumental genocide which the status quo guarantees delivery.

And for once in history there is an opportunity to see the picture and the pieces (this mess) and decide will we drop them on the floor gently or smash them against the wall violently. To not be passive, to not limit one's options to following rigged rules.. to dare to defy, to dare to love, to dare to live. To not say in retrospect we ignorantly didn't know.. because we did and yet we did nothing...

Poly-ticks is just the circus now, it's just a sideshow distraction to keep us busy as they finish looting the place and are heading quickly for the door. Heading for their bunkers full of the treasure they will command our children to protect.

The only way for politics to become relevant again is to openly admit what farcical irrelevance it has become reduced to. I know I'm not "arguing" with you on any of this, really...

Peace and Divinity
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

Reputation Comments on this post:

Good post!

[Darksanity]

Originally Posted by baudmax

My vote goes in the trash no matter what it seems, but I do not delude myself otherwise; I will vote my conscience or I won't vote at all, because the only other option is de facto legitimization of the people I most despise. I am considering something serious in Vermont, as my feelers tell me it is ripe here moreso than about anywhere at this time (I was after all, drawn here for a purpose). It's time to cut the head off the Federal Beast, it is time to defend those close at home from the excesses. If you look at the VT Constitution very carefully, you may see some possibilities, I know it has given me some novel ideas. The problem lies in an unresponsive cadre in the District of Kriminals. You won't ever beat a korporate whore, playing the korporate whore game. You can't beat the house, you know. But you can call a spade a spade. Reality is getting harder to deny, it is increasingly breaking through all the media BS, and very soon it will literally be falling on everyone's heads. I needn't spell out what is on the way, your can read it between the lines all day long on TV, the flood of frantic posts and bulletins, you can smell it palpably in the air and it's not good, and everyone knows it viscerally.

Extraordinary times require extraordinary stratagems. If you play in their court you lose everytime, guaranteed. I can only hope you will vote your conscience if you are ever presented a candidate who would truly represent the embodiment of those ideals which you claim to cherish. Liberty has argued for too long by rational rhetoric, and lost the spine of passion.

Fighting for liberty means more than voting for the lesser of two evils. You (as every entity) have more power than you give yourself credit for to change the mass state of mind, to define what is acceptible or not acceptible. Freedom, or Eternal Slavery my friends, what do you choose?

Peace and Divinity
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

I have to agree with him, the kind of reasoning "if you dont vote mainstream, it's waste" is totally anti-democracy. What the hell has democracy became??!!? Better be in a monarch......... I will also vote independently in Canada even if it's a waste

[Pinkavvy]

What democracy do you speak of? The U.S. has never and will never be a democacy. Wasn't even inteded to be a democracy. They have all lied to you.

And though the idealism is nice; and swip is one of the most "idealist" people out there. (been ARRESTED 27 times for civil disobediance at protests.)

But again, they all lied to you. Filling your head when you are young that idealism matters and couple make a differance. In this corporate owned and ran country, idealism is simply a tool. A tool givin to you by the mainstream government. "Let them think they can make a differance" and then their vote will not only count, but will be COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to what they are trying to accomplish.

Do me a favor, if you aren't going to vote for the democrat, simply don't vote. And don't spread your words of voting for somebody else. Do you understand that a vote not for the democrats, no matter who it's for, and no matter what your ideas are, is simply a vote for the republikkkans? The democrats are the ONLY people who have a chance of defeating the republikkans. And though they are also coporately ran, and are almost as bad... they ARE better then the republikkans. They ARE the LESSER of the two evils. And the two evils are you only choices.

baud- take your message and do something with it. Ideals means nothing if you are not on the street making change happen. (and NO, voting doesn't count.) Cut off some heads, spout your message to the camaras where somebody may here them. Or take a more realistic approach and go help the victims of the system. Start or volunteer in a soup kitchen. Go sit in a tree and save an area of eco-system that could never be replaced, go provide some radical political conversation to the mostly undereducated ignorance-fed people that the system has setup to keep in jail rather than help. These are things swiy could actually do to further their idealism. By trying to show your idealism in the voting booth you are simply being counter-productive to the cause.

[melt_000]

seeing as there's hardly anybody in the current generation who thinks weed should be illegal, it's just a matter of time really. and a matter of time after that for other drugs, etc. as civilization has progressed, it has generally kept on getting more and more liberal (depending on how you mean liberal) and it will keep doing that as long as it doens't collapse. if it collapses it will probably go back to a more primitive system, which is why i would choose gridlock rather than violent change. the us constitution is in my opinion almost perfect, if it was actually followed, since nobody's willing to actually come out against the constitution, bush's transgressions against it will in time be recognized and just make the point for the original system.

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by melt_000

seeing as there's hardly anybody in the current generation who thinks weed should be illegal, it's just a matter of time really. and a matter of time after that for other drugs, etc. as civilization has progressed, it has generally kept on getting more and more liberal (depending on how you mean liberal) and it will keep doing that as long as it doens't collapse. if it collapses it will probably go back to a more primitive system, which is why i would choose gridlock rather than violent change. the us constitution is in my opinion almost perfect, if it was actually followed, since nobody's willing to actually come out against the constitution, bush's transgressions against it will in time be recognized and just make the point for the original system.

You are of course, working on the supposition that the US Constitution will in fact be restored/reimplemented at some point as the law of the land, and as an effective limitation on power. That is a big IF, considering people who gain newfound power rarely give it back without a fight. They've established legal precedent now that the USCON no longer restricts them. Time will tell, tho I'm not optimistic that the system is capable of self correction anymore.

Peace and Liberty
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by Pinkavvy

What democracy do you speak of? The U.S. has never and will never be a democacy. Wasn't even inteded to be a democracy. They have all lied to you.

And though the idealism is nice; and swip is one of the most "idealist" people out there. (been ARRESTED 27 times for civil disobediance at protests.)

But again, they all lied to you. Filling your head when you are young that idealism matters and couple make a differance. In this corporate owned and ran country, idealism is simply a tool. A tool givin to you by the mainstream government. "Let them think they can make a differance" and then their vote will not only count, but will be COUNTER PRODUCTIVE to what they are trying to accomplish.

Do me a favor, if you aren't going to vote for the democrat, simply don't vote. And don't spread your words of voting for somebody else. Do you understand that a vote not for the democrats, no matter who it's for, and no matter what your ideas are, is simply a vote for the republikkkans? The democrats are the ONLY people who have a chance of defeating the republikkans. And though they are also coporately ran, and are almost as bad... they ARE better then the republikkans. They ARE the LESSER of the two evils. And the two evils are you only choices.

baud- take your message and do something with it. Ideals means nothing if you are not on the street making change happen. (and NO, voting doesn't count.) Cut off some heads, spout your message to the camaras where somebody may here them. Or take a more realistic approach and go help the victims of the system. Start or volunteer in a soup kitchen. Go sit in a tree and save an area of eco-system that could never be replaced, go provide some radical political conversation to the mostly undereducated ignorance-fed people that the system has setup to keep in jail rather than help. These are things swiy could actually do to further their idealism. By trying to show your idealism in the voting booth you are simply being counter-productive to the cause.

I've battled in the streets with the po-lice, and been in jail, and that doesn't accomplish much either 'cept get your fingerprints and face scans in their digital beast troublemaker tracking programs. Which is why I see demonstrations as pointless.. the media won't cover them (or if they do, only in a negative light). If you want to change the law, you don't protest/whine about it, you target the seats of power.

My concern about this attitude of "you have to vote Dem because they are not Reps" mentality, is that it solidifies the impossibility of any outside option (I mean truly, if you maintain this attitude and promote it, then you make it pointless for non-system (likely less corrupt as they don't play the game and don't owe any money people anyting) people to run for any office higher than dog catcher. At the same time, you let the Dems take your vote for granted, and they can feel smug knowing they can continue to be barely distinguishable from the Reps, which means they will not bother to represent our interests in any significant way, because it is corporate dollars which they feast on, same as the Reps. The way they are now, is the way they will continue to be, which is to say, a pseudo opposition party, a sham. And, don't get me wrong.. I don't just go in and vote for no-name never-heard-ofs... I will balance things when I vote as I always do... I will leverage and vote for Dems if it is clear that I need to in cases, but by no means do I hold any particular loyalty or regard for the democratic party.

As far as a social indoctrination, I have to disagree that the system promotes the idea that a person can make a significant difference, beyond mere windowdressing (as slave mentality "The Amerikan Dream: if you work hard enough.. blah blah blah"). If anything, most people's attitudes seem to be deep-seated apathy, based on hopelessness. The internally integrated concept of powerlessness, that "I am one person, what can I do". I don't see a heck of a lot of people saying, yes you can change things. I certainly don't see any proof so far of positive change, courtesy of playing by status quo rules or tactics in the political sphere. Maybe the people around you are more optimistic.. and don't get me wrong here, I am at least hopefully optimistic a person still can make a difference, but only through asymetrical tactics. You will just be spit in the wind if you play by the established rules, and if you try to implement change through established methods. The only chance we've really got, is to reject the status quo, the tear it down, and to offer something better in it's place. I have run for public office in the past, and I am seriously considering something in 2008, but then again exactly what I'd be against is this atttitude that you have to vote for a partyarch. I reject the parties as irrelevant to representation of the people or humane policy, and I think increasingly the public understands they are not getting representation by the D/R flip flop game, either. What you have is an oscillation of leadership between two corrupt groups, each of which hold power until such time as it's corruption becomes so brazenly obvious as to force them from power. Then the other gang of thieves gets a chance to steal again, until they pass the ball back.. ad infinitum. You will get no integrity from the parties (excepting Ron Paul, but he IS really a libertarian in republican clothing).

So, do I intend to stir up this pot.. you bet! Believe in the truth.. guerilla political tactics. The things that can effectively monkeywrench this foul system of oppression, are those things they do not expect.. those things they are not prepared for.. those things they most fear. Afterall, "They" are not omniscient... they can be outsmarted. The stakes are too high to not try. Just as they manipulate and maneuver, so they can be manipulated and maneuvered. As in all other successful endeavors, the key is in communication. Use it or lose, time is of the essence. Move forward, don't look back, and pay no attention to the limitations and barriers that the interests that be may try to erect. The system is monolitihic, designed to maintain the dynasties. You cannot change the system, but you can change the way you think of it, the way you react to it, the way you interact with it. Whether or not it is in fact going ot be relevant, or not. As that wave rises before you, you can slip beneath it gently and feel the slight turbulance as it floats harmlessly over, or be crushed before its full force in boiling whitewater and thrashed upon the beach. And yet a wave is a wave is a wave. How do you deal with the wave, that is the question...

The proof will be in the pudding. Do as you may, so shall I...

Peace and Divinity
Love is the Law

Baudeaux Machs

[allyourbase]

you argue that both sides are corrupt and that voting only for democrats closes the field to third party options...and yet you support no third party options...the only politician youve said anything positive about is a nut job who wants a) guns on planes b) guns in schools c) a "flat tax" that is unproportionately unfair to working people d) the right for states to ceceed from the union?? e) wants to abolish the CIA because he says "it encourages the terrorists" to which I say, encourage? try FUND! but thats beside the point. f) abolishment of the estate tax, which they call "the death tax" to make normal people care about it, however if those same normal people knew that all it meant was that biff spiffmeister the fourth will only inherit 6.4 million instead of the whole 7.6 million his father left him. g) further privatization, so far hes suggested turning the FAA and the NTSB over to soulless corperations, who would be formed on the spot by the conglomerate companies owned by his fellow republicans.

the bottom line is that republicans are the party of big bussiness, and theye looking to fuck the working class. theyll get ahead anyway they can, recently its been through open suppression of the black vote and demonization of gays. oh and lets not forget president douchebag bringing up september the 11th every time he wants money to fund his middle eastern puppet state. while here at home were totally ignoring the fact that since these assholes have taken office the poverty level in america has risen over 30%, medicaide, medicare, social security, are national jokes. the fastest rising group of indigents in this country is comprised of our veterans. divorce is through the roof further spurred on by freaky cults like the LDS who have a mormon candidate running right now, whos church tells their followers that theyre descendants of a space god, and that they themselves will one day be space gods on their own planet, but not if they marry the wrong people. LDS actually encourages the break up of loving families because a persons spouse "didnt walk the path of the lord".

during the 90s these brown shirt extremist neocons needed a knew push button issue. it used to be communism. theyd say, those people on the left, theyd sell our whole country to the communists. in fact, that was the arguement that left mondale in the dust. it was presumed hed turn america into the next socialist state. it was widely decided in the 1980s that terrorism should be their next issue, pushed forward by the cia, who funded a number of groups under the umbrella of the brotherhood of islam to expell the russians. the russians, after having gotten their asses kicked came appollogeticly back to the united states asking for help in leaving the country with a stable government. we of course refused and all of the foreign right wing extremists groups we were supporting took over the country. fast forward to today, where they are avidly using the threat of terrorism into scaring the american populace into voting for them, and equating their political enemies with "the terrorists". how many times did we hear fascist republican assholes say that democrats were "emboldening the terrorists" during the 2004 elections? Ive little doubt we will hear it again in 2008, I just hope the democratic candidate is has the balls to ask rudy giulliani where welfare mothers checks went when he "sanctioned" them as mayor of new york city.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

I don't see obama or hillary saying they're even going to loosen drug controls.
The fact is, is that Ron Paul is a libertarian first, while some libertarian ideals may seem whacky and I personally disagree with his flat tax idea. but Is the government any better than corporations? When was the last time the government siad thank you for giving them money and "hello welcome to <insert company here> may I help you sir?", The fact is, is that the free market is better suited to these kinds of things becuase while the government uses an iron fist, corporations use a gentle hand, becuase companies have an obligation to thier consumers. The government doesn't becuase it's pay your fucking taxes or go to jail.