Water storage of research chemicals

[Rush]

I was thinking about storage and stability of research chemicals in liquid form:
is best alchool or water?

and if water, tap water is that harmful? there is chlorine inside, that's an onxidant, but its in a low concentration...

and demineralized water is the same of distilled water?

SWIM's FOAF has a couple of tryptamines(AMT in particular) solved in tap water and stored in a dark place. their stability is in danger or he should'nt much worry about?

and if its that bad, what can he do to improve stability?

SWIM thougt about adding alchool, in order to double the volume of the solution, as he heared from many parts that alchool is more stable.

thougts?

thanks

[donkey rhubarb]

Alcohol or everclear would best, in the dark, in the freezer.

In general tryptamines are rather unstable.

Use the search engine or simply browse through the RC forum as much has been written about this.

[Rush]

ok i've searched and tap water was a bad idea...hope it don't degrades that much

since the RC is already melted in tap water, what can SWIM's FOAF do to repair this?

[rxbandit]

swim suspects that you could isolate the AMT from the water the same way you can isolate DMT with a naptha extract followed by a freeze precipitation. im not sure what form of AMT you have (hydrochloride salt, freebase etc.) but im pretty sure you could use naptha to pull off the AMT in a heat bath and then put the isolated naptha in the fridge for a few days and have it precipitate out of the naptha solution and then filter and dry the AMT.

either that or swiy should throw a party ASAP...

[Rush]

damn i hope is not really that bad!
i'd prefered to hear some conforting words instead !

BTW is hydrochloride form
thanks for the naphta advice...i was searching for something easier

i was thinking about just freezing it...or to add alchool as i read its more stable

oh---i've made some calculations and chlorine amount in the worst case is 0.0000142 moles
while AMT is 0.00588 moles
if thats has some sense, the chlorine will degrade 0.0000142 moles of AMT and i think i can afford that...
if there is a chemist please correct me if i'm wrong!

[donkey rhubarb]

The Naptha part really isn't too hard at all...

The two will seperate almost instantly and the Naptha should pull the AMT out of the water (the naptha will be on the bottom). Pour the water off the top and use a dropper to get the last bits of water out of there. Perhaps do that a few times then stick the Naptha in the freezer to try to get it to percipitate or just use a fan and evap the Naptha...

If SWIM is wrong about this please slap SWIM...

Also, SWIM would like to see an AMT party

[Rush]

nope, no AMT party !

however if that's so istantaneus i think swim will try this!
and i think that the stuff can resist there for two days in that chlorine inferno!

is naphta specific to do this or SWIM can use other solvents?

So what swim has to do is:
1-Mix the Naphta to the Solution
2-shake,wait till it divides, then take off the water layer thats on the top
3-and do the naphta thing again with the water layer
4-then put the naphta in the freezer
i don't get what's gonna happen to the naphta in the freezer
is the same of evaporating it? maybe faster?

anyway thanks for the help!

[raven3davis]

You could simply leave the water out and when it evaporates you will be left with the AMT. Water will take a long time to evaporate though and during this time it might degrade even more. SWIM has diluted many tryptamines before and honestly a lot of them are not very stable in water or any solution for that matter. SWIM cannot comment on AMT because he has not done research with that chemical. Hopefully your AMT will last a long time but thankfully the dose is high compared to lots of other tryptamines so one trip party could cash your supply.

In SWIMs opinion here are your choices.

1. Store in a dark cool place and hope nothing happens.

2. Add some everclear so it can be frozen. Very cold temperatures will slow down the degradation process.

3. Trip party.

Dunno about the whole naptha thing. SWIM wouldnt mess around with that unless he really knew what he was doing. You live you learn. Tryptamines just don't like to swim.

[donkey rhubarb]

in the freezer the AMT should fall out of solution and recrystalize on the bottom then SWIR would pour the naptha off.

Or SWIR could just skip the freezer part and have a fan blow over the naptha.

Also just to note this does work with DMT but SWIM doesn't know enough about chemistry to verify that this shoud work with AMT. Perhaps someone in the know will chime in..

Also if you used tap water to begin with just evaping the water might leave other minerals and such along with the amt...the Naptha should evap clean (worth testing that first...)

[Rush]

thanks for the time spent in helping me...so SWIY is experienced with tryptamines storage:
with degradation time what you mean exactly? 1 year? months?

SWIM found that DPT in a powder form stored in dark is 30% down of potency in a year...while an older 5-meo-AMT in alchool was still powerful

BTW SWIM has obtained some nafta and now he is wondering about how much would be required to do the job
supposing theorichally that the solution is 1g AMT in 500mg(500ml) of H2O

SWIM also is going to do this with half of his solution in order to do a concrete test about the AMT stability in alchool compared to the one in tap water


---Also i've made some thoughts about letting the water evaporate but i realized that it would take really a lot of time, especially if this has to be far from sunlight!

EDIT--i just remember that the extractions needed an acidification and a basification part
and if the naphta work was not effective then no worries, i would keep anyway the water layer so i would not lose anything
BTW is better waiting for a chemist member that comes and post!
Nagognog2 is chemist if i remember right!

EDIT2-- regarding minerals and evapored tap-water, chlorine is the main harm to the chemical since its an oxidant, but its a gas: so it should evaporate and not becaming solid

[donkey rhubarb]

perhaps swim is misunderstanding swiy but no acid / base would be needed.

For 500ml of water swim would suggest 100ml of warm naptha. To warm the naptha do not do it over open flame but place the container with the naptha in a bath of warm water.

and swiy is correct, do not dispose of the water in case it didn't work.

swim has had trypts around for many months and that have changed colors and consistency but still performed well...so swim dunnnos. so many variables.

[Rush]

Originally Posted by donkey rhubarb

perhaps swim is misunderstanding swiy but no acid / base would be needed.

SWIM just knows how to extract DXM Hydrobromide(i think is a salt, an analog of hydrochloride) from cough syrup or DMT from phalaris arundinacea, and the mechanism is similar(apolar solvent layer/water polar layer) but one needs to add acid(HCL, citric acid) or base(NaOH) to make it soluble in one or another solvent...

hmm i understood the procedure, correct me if this ist right:
a warm bath is used to incrase solubility of AMT in Naphta, in the same way sugar is more soluble in warm water rather than cold water
Then freezing the solution AMT becomes less(or not at all) soluble and it precipitates. in this case i use a filter to divide liquid Naphta from solid AMT
and then let dry, to let the remaining naphta traces evaporate
this "freezing method" how much time takes?

Or, in the fan option, Naphta evaporates cause is volatile, but AMT does not.
and it remains on the bottom
i guess this one is a bit faster than the other one


if i understood that all right, SWIM's gonna try this the next days

--oh just dont understand one basilar thing:
why AMT will flow into Naphta if is soluble in water? maybe just because AMT is more soluble in Naphta rather than H2O ?
anyway thanks...and sorry if that's an idiot question!

[donkey rhubarb]

Yes sounds correct.

Good luck and keep SWIUs posted...

[Rush]

ok SWIM'S FOAF started the job.
how much time the solution (AMT+H2O)+Naphta has to stay in hot bath??

oh---and naphta is on the top, not on the bottom, like you said!

[Rush]

update--- seems to work!
white powderish precipitation in freezed naphta!

[donkey rhubarb]

Originally Posted by Rush

ok SWIM'S FOAF started the job.
how much time the solution (AMT+H2O)+Naphta has to stay in hot bath??

oh---and naphta is on the top, not on the bottom, like you said!

Sorry about that! Don't know why SWIM said that...

Glad to hear it is working tho!!

[fatal]

although i realize the author of the thread obviously intended to mean tryptamines in general i will elaborate anyways. amphetamines and phenethylamines go into solution with alcohol and water fairly easily and will be stable therein in the proper temperature. ergolines are also fairly safe stored this way. alcohol is better because lets face it who wants to thaw out chems to take them?

[Rush]

new problems came:

Naphta doesnt evaporate that easly
Freezing method works, but the powder gets sticked to the bottom:
pulling naphta away, how to get the powder out?
if SWIM lets tthe powder evaporate the remaining naphta traces, then, AMT solves again with naphta, becoming liquid, and naphta doesnt evaporate.

Now, SWIM thougt: can I solve the remining AMT powder+ Naphta traces directly with Alchool(40%) ? its a good idea?

[donkey rhubarb]

hmm...SWIMs experience with naptha is that it evaps in a few hours and leaves no trace...

Did you do an evap test with the naptha as suggested in post #9 to see if it is leaving a trace?

What kind of container are you holding the naptha in? Dump it is a large glass baking dish and leave a fan to blow over it. It should evap qucikly then you can scrape the powder up with a razor...

[Rush]

the container is not the best for evap, that's right

SWIM is gonna put naphta in a container with a larger base
no fan used although(none avaible at the time, got to search), just wind for all day(in shadow): seems it isnt enough!

there was no need to filter: the powder was attached to the bottom.

[donkey rhubarb]

hmmm...if it is outside one thing to be aware of is dirt and bugs and misc could fall into naptha...some form of thin t-shirt might work well. also the fan will greatly speed things up.

[Rush]

something wrong happened:
swim filtered the naphta, and let evaporate the crystals.
they turned back in liquid form(melting in the naphta/water traces)
evaporated and nothing was left!
so swim was scared by this, and decided to melt the remaining crystalsinto alchool, along with some small amount of naphta

the alchool turned from limpid in something torbid and little opaque
is this right? AMT makes this to alchool or is there too much unwanted naphta?
water was in its original color with AMT inside

also, to get out all the amt, SWIM added water to all the remaining naphta and freezed it to get the water iced and poured away the naphta.

[Nagognog2]

As the naptha evaporates, it lowers the ambient temperature in it's immediate surroundings. This causes water-vapor in the surrounding air to condense and enter the equation.

[Rush]

i see! that makes the work harder!

BTW is there somebody with experience with AMT and alchool solutions?

are they limpid?

[Rush]

update - the extracted stuff is inactive.probably something else got extracted from water, like minerals or something