Protecting against dissociative neurotoxicity

[Niteflights]

I was wondering if anyone has had practical or clinical experience exploiting these widely published findings:

Serotonergic psychedelics such as psilocybin and LSD agonize the 5-HT serotonin receptors. Studies have shown that the serotonin systems affected by such serotonergic drugs are linked to the NMDA/glutamate systems.[10] Tests on rats indicate that 5-HT antagonist like LSD and psilocybin prevent the neurotoxicity caused by NMDA receptor antagonists.[11]

I wonder if hydergine would also provide the neuroprotective effects of LSD. I am specifically thinking of ketamine induced neurotoxicity, however it should apply to all the NDMA antagonists (DXM, PCP, Nitrous oxide).

Also I wonder what other harm reduction methods could be integrated to minimize dissociative neurotoxicity (post ketamine brain freeze). SWIM has had positive experience with:

R-lipoic acid
NAC n-acetyl carnitine (eye drops are best for neuroprotection)
mega dose vitamin C
megadose b12
hydergine
theanine (green tea is great, pure suntheanine is fantastic for comedown)

Gosh some low dose LSD (~25 mcg) would come in handy if it were legal. Until then the hydergine is golden.

Any input is appreciated. Noticing the recent alarming rise of ketamine abuse, I think it would be in order to produce a harm reduction FAQ such as the ones that were published years ago for MDMA. This could save lots of people brains.

Cheers,
Nite

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good one
	Harm Reduction!

[El Calico Loco]

It's just a hunch, but I suspect that depressed breathing and dehydration are responsible for as much of the harm suffered by DXM abusers as the drug itself.


ECL

[fnord]

i could of sworn i read that atropine/scopolamine were neroprotective to mylar in conjunction with dxm/ketamine/mk801/etc but everything im finding syas its the oppasite,anyone have any info on this?

[El Calico Loco]

I remember hearing something about this, fnord, but I can't remember what the actual chemical was. The ones you mentioned are anticholinergics, correct? So is Benadryl. I wonder if it would have a similar effect...somehow I doubt it, given how sick Swim has become after taking more than 50mg with his DXM.


ECL
(I suppose that could have been nothing more than rapid, severe dehydration...)

[Yukio Mishima]

GABA agonists including EtOH protect NMDA antagonist neurotoxicity.

[psyche]

i could of sworn i read that atropine/scopolamine were neroprotective to mylar in conjunction with dxm/ketamine/mk801/etc but everything im finding syas its the oppasite,anyone have any info on this?

You're not alone. SWIM remembers reading that too. It might've been somewhere on erowid.

[eltimmy]

http://leda.lycaeum.org/?ID=13066

"we now report that certain anticholinergic ... agents protect cerebrocortical neurons against the adverse side effects of NMDA antagonists."

Note that DXM has some of its own anticholinergic activity. What an interesting little molecule.

[smokester]

Benzos and other GABA agonists prevent, as a poster above noted.

[icecreamdude321]

From what I understand, oral dosage of DXM at any level, will not cause vacuolization of neurons or Olney's lesions. I don't think nitrous oxide is believed to cause significant damage either,

[Paracelsus]

N2O can cause severe and potentially lethal nerve damage (specifically myelopathy) but via another mechanism (vitamin B12 inactivation).


eltimmy: do you have any sources for the claim that DXM is anticholinergic?