Health - Perpetual high without addiction/tolerance?

[darawk]

I've been thinking for a little while now about the possibility of alternating pharmacologically different downers over a potentially infinite period of time.

We have three main classes of euphoric downers that I can think of which should have little to no cross-tolerance with one another(AFAIK, that is):

- Benzodiazepines (GABA-A)
- GHB & Analogs (GABA-B and GHB-specific receptors)
- Opiates (Opioid receptors)

For opiates, it is possible to reverse tolerance to them using a substance called 'proglumide'. It would also be possible to quickly reverse tolerance to opiates on days in which they aren't being used, using something like naloxone or naltrexone.

Opiate tolerance can also be reversed using NMDA antagonists, such as DXM, Ketamine, and PCP. This could imply that throwing in a dissociative trip on the weekends could significantly lower tolerance to opiates as well.


According to this study:

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/cgi/co...full/291/3/932

GABA-A antagonists can at least partially reduce tolerance to benzodiazepines. However, i'm not sure how a GABA antagonist would feel subjectively...it might be unpleasant.

http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstr...p?pmid=7637878

The above study seems to say that in rats(And it's important to remember that this result is for rats, not people), tolerance to flurazepam(a benzodiazepine) obtained from 1 week of oral administration disappears to undetectable levels after 7 days of abstinence, but not after 2. This only applies to the one specific area of the brain that they examined, however.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this subject? Approximate estimates of how long it might take to completely reverse tolerance after a single dose of any of these substances? Etc..?


Another interesting, though mostly unrelated, study that I found in my searches shows that GABAA antagonists can increase the reward response for small doses of cocaine:

http://www.ionchannels.org/showabstr...?pmid=15820531

This might imply that benzo's blunt the euphoria produced by cocaine?

[omgwarp]

I can only advide against taking Benzos. You get addicted to them very quickly. My ex-GF got accidently and horribly addicted to valium. She had to spend 4 weeks in the Priory in the UK (the most expensive rehab clinic in the UK). It was an extremely difficult withdrawl and is probably the most difficult subtance to withdraw from.

[darawk]

Originally Posted by omgwarp

I can only advide against taking Benzos. You get addicted to them very quickly. My ex-GF got accidently and horribly addicted to valium. She had to spend 4 weeks in the Priory in the UK (the most expensive rehab clinic in the UK). It was an extremely difficult withdrawl and is probably the most difficult subtance to withdraw from.

So i've heard. Benzo's seem to be the absolute worst withdrawal wise. Which is precisely why i'm trying to do some research into ways of reversing tolerance to them quickly and painlessly.

I noticed today that the D2 agonist bromocriptine reverses tolerance to caffeine(which can actually be horribly, horribly addictive if abused in the extreme):

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/funding/res...s/caffeine.htm

[omgwarp]

A while ago swim was 24/7 on GHB and ended up breaking his leg. He had no choice but to call an ambulance and go to hospital, he took some G with him to ward off any withdrawals but to his dismay discorvered he would need an operation and would be in hospital for a minumum of 5 days. He had to confess to his addiction and they weened him off the addiction with Valium. He was also given morphine injections for the pain and some nitrous oxide here and there. After he left hospital he was given 10 days worth of tramadol (for the pain) and valium (for the addiction).

The strange thing is swim remembers only the first 2 days in the hospital and absolutetly nothing else. None of the operation or interactions with the staff are remembered. Apparently two drugs coucilors spoke to me for some time and they were suprised at how lucid I was but I remember none of this.

All in all the swim expected the withdrawal to be very unpleasant but it was actually quite pleasant until the tramadol and valium ran out and swim felt really crap for a couple of days and then felt fine again.

So as long as your careful about what your taking I think your theories are probably correct.

[darawk]

Here's another study on fumazenil, showing that it does not induce seizures in people who have a high benzodiazepine tolerance:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

This is at least an indication that it might not have unpleasant subjective effects, and it also re-affirms the idea that it will reverse benzo tolerance.

[Nicaine]

Just to point out: Studies have shown some people never develop much benzo tolerance (or addiction) -- SWIM believes he's one of these. He never did anything stupid like suddenly quit taking 6mg clonazepam/day, but also he gets little/no euphoria from benzos and little/no addiction. Really, little or none of anything from them. He's still formally prescribed 0.5mg clonazepam twice daily, but has let about 3 months worth build up and hasn't bothered refilling his script in quite awhile. OTOH, he's found Ambien to be highly addictive and had to quit using it (to prevent doctor shopping, etc)! Strange, eh...

[DrMuffy]

SWIdr has been using a simalar technic for his drug use. He (currently) is not addicted to any drug, just to the getting high/euphoria part. Luckily he enjoys CNS depressants as much as stimulants, so he has a wide range of drugs to use for recreational purposes. He tries to keep his weekly drug schedule constant but diverse. For instace, he will use Benzos and or some other downers on Sunday, Kratom on Monday, opiates on Tuesday, a variety of ethnos on Wednesday, some sort of simulant (propylhexedrine, methylone, etc.) on Thursday, and cocaine or (meth)amphetmines on Friday and Saturday. Of course his drug schedule changes often and can consist of a variety of other drugs. SWIdr always tries to space out experiences with the same drug, bu he has been known to go through binges with several substaces.