True that OJ raises the experience of MDMA?

[Wangsta]

I'm just wondering if anybody here can verify that OJ increases the roll. If so, does anybody know why?

[allyourbase]

no, thats a confusion with LSD, ascorbic acid is an antioxidant, furthering the lifespans in vivo of drugs subject to oxygen degradation. MDMA doesnt degrade easily.

[Nagognog2]

Title changed:

From the rules:

• Use descriptive Topic Subject. This will help others find what they want to read. Topics with bad Topic subjects may be deleted! - there's nothing more annoying than looking at all those stupid "A stupid question" subject lines. I mean, I'm damn lazy, but how hard is it to type "A stupid question about (insert something here)"? As a rule of thumb, most thread titles should include the full name of the drug discussed.

A rule many tend to forget will cause a mass of warnings soon...Rules are here:

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[Alfa]

Vitamin C is necessary for the synthesis of serotonin: Vitamin C, as the cofactor for tryptophan-5-hydroxylase, catalyzes the hydroxylation of tryptophan to serotonin.

Originally Posted by enlighten flyer

Two studies have found that antioxidants’ can reduce MDMA
related neurotoxicity in rats. One of these studies gave rats
vitamin C + MDMA1, the other alphalipoic acid + MDMA2.

The rats who were given vitamin C +MDMA were then given
more MDMA one week later. They showed more effects from
MDMA than the rats that didn’t get vitamin C. This suggests
that vitamin C reduced the rats MDMA tolerance.

This may also show an increase of effect by supplementing with vitamine C, but it may be either way.

Originally Posted by erowid

Shankaran studied 4 groups of rats, one which received saline only, one group saline + ascorbic acid, one group saline + MDMA (10mg/kg ip), and one group ascorbic acid (100mg/kg ip) + MDMA (10mg/kg ip). One week later, a few rats from each group were killed and their levels of serotonin measured. The rats who received ascorbic acid with MDMA did not have statistically different serotonin levels than the rats who received saline-only or vitamin C-only, but the rats who received MDMA+saline had serotonin levels about 40% lower than all of the other rats, suggesting neurotoxicity. At the same time, the remaining live rats were all given MDMA (10mg / kg injected, 4 times in 8 hours) and their behavioral and biochemical reactions recorded. The results clearly demonstrated that the rats who received MDMA without ascorbic acid during their first session showed substantially attenuated effects to the second administration compared to the other 3 groups. MDMA activated release of serotonin in these rats was blunted (figure 2), body temperature was less affected, and behavioral signals (head weaving, paw treading, and body posture) all indicated significant tolerance to MDMA which none of the other rats exhibited. Ascorbic acid administered with MDMA had blocked not only damage, but also tolerance.

This research re-energizes the question of whether long term experiential tolerance to MDMA may be related to neurotoxicity, but this remains an unresearched issue.

What Does This Mean For Humans? Although there is no research in humans confirming that antioxidants block MDMA-specific oxidative stress, neurotoxicity, or tolerance, it is believed that the oxidative stress mechanisms for toxicity in rats are very similar to those in humans. Trying to speculate what implications this research has for humans is fraught with possible invalidating assumptions, but the research with antioxidants seems to offer a potential method for decreasing the negative effects of MDMA. The following paragraphs will attempt to describe some of the issues and questions involved in trying to extrapolate from rat data to human use.

Check out this chart on the effect of vitamine C on the serotonin levels of MDMA users:
mdma_article3_chart2.jpg

[ThePopeIsMyPal]

so that would be saying it does increase the roll but the guy before said it doesnt so...which is it?

[Alfa]

Personally, SWIM has never tried adding vitamin C to MDMA, so I can't tell from SWIM's experience. I just present you this information. The studies above where done with 10 mg/kg. You might want to calculate that to your body weight to see how bizarre this is.

[Peace Frog]

SWIM thinks the percentage of Vitamin C in your system would have to be a little more than just in a glass of OJ or an orange... but if you were on a steady diet of Vitamin C rich items, then SWIM believes it would lower tolerance to MDMA, therefore you would roll harder eventually.


As for immediate, SWIM has never tried this before, maybe he will and reply with whether or not it really did anything.

[Alfa]

500 - 1000 mg would be the bare minimum.

[sterling77]

Necessary for serotonin synthesis...the average person today is hardly deficient in vitamin c, so the question would be does consuming excessive amounts increase synthesis (or is a deficit just a limiting factor).

By all subjective reports from swim and his friends, high doses of antioxidants seem to take something from the roll. Also, orange juice decreases absorption of amphetamines. Personally swim stays away from OJ pre-roll because of this fact more than anything.

[epote]

well swim can report that use of vit c and acetylocystein in this manner:

3gr vit c, 1gr NAC pre rolling
2gr vit c, 0.5gr NAC the next day and for a few days after

made the comeback somewhat easier, well more subtle anyway. Could be placebo given the study in rats has vit c doses that are in the region of 200gr for a human

[Broshious]

IVing Vit C would probably be the best way to go about it.

[namooP]

This is of about as little relevance as infomation from pill ID sites, but on a recent MDMA experience, SwiM filled up on orange juice for the day leading up to that night. That day involving a long bus ride and so plenty of orange juice. Admittedly, this afforded the Vit C little time to act, but regardless that night was a pretty poor experience. Certainly below average. There are way too many variables to read into it but SwiM will avoid orange juice nonetheless.

[kumar]

Bananas, have plenty before trust me, i had 3 pills that were average. Next week had half the same one from half of the pill from the week before and the role off half was twice as good as 3. They work!

[moominboy]

SWIM had actually heard that OJ should/could be used if experiencing a bad effect in order to induce vomiting?

he's never tried it though...

[Xuser]

Vitamin C pills (500mg each=6 oranges) Eat about 6-10 like candy.

[averath]

From having seen plenty of people vomit massive quantities of OJ at many raves, SWIM thinks it's better you stick to Vitamin C pills.