Health - cocaine and ADD / ADHD

[epote]

for starters hey to all, first post in the boards, so nice to meet you.

ok, as far as we can tell ADD is probably a result of imbalances in dopamine levels. Untill resently it was hypothesized that a lack of certain dopamine transporters, now there is a concensuse that its not the transporters that have the problem but dopamine it self (being lower).

in any case, it also known that cocaine binds to DAT leaving higher concentrations of dopamine in the synaptic cleft.

What got me thinking is the fact that SWIM has a mild case of ADD (though SWIM is lucky enough to be a rather fast learner, so he can compensate some). When SWIM first tried coke (and then a couple of times more) the net effect was not stimulation, talkativeness, self importance etc. No, it was more a feeling of calm, a little more confidence, and a paradoxical ability of SWIM's brain to shut the fuck up. Everything was clearer and more direct, external stimuly, thought sequences etc.

As a result even 4-5 hefty lines of coke had very little crashing effect, just a feeling of iminent bad news and a general apathy. But other than that nothing else.

The whole thing actually i can say it was a much more pronounced version of the effect that ridalin has on me.

So the question, or statement or whatever is this:

could ADD or physiologicaly decreased levels of dopamine could explaine why some people dont seem to respond the same way as most to cocaine?

[Chunkz]

well i know cocaine has never been perscribed for add, like amphetamine, & methamphetamine-like products. But I think that it's only Amphetamines, and Methamphetamines, that have this concentration effect.

[epote]

yes well obviously cocaine was never prescribed for ADD, but given that the mechanism of action is prety much the same (in the end) it wouldnt be too far fetched.

SWIM will try coke at low doses to see how it compairs to more mainstream ADD drugs. SWIM's guess is though that the need of frequent administrations will not be very helpfull.

[tyler121515]

Hi all,

I'm new to this forum and have a couple of questions. SWIM has a bad case of ADHD and has been pescribed many things by his psychiatrist such as ritalin, concerta, adderall, and recently focalin. However, SWIM hasn't taken his meds in a while. Anyway, SWIM tried coke for the first couple of times in the last week and it has been a major letdown from what others have told him about it. After doing it, SWIM says all it feels like is 40 mg of adderall, only it only last an hour followed by several hours of hellacious comedown: a major dissapointment since his friends say coke is the best thing in the world: it makes you feel you're on top of the world, nobody can mess with, etc. etc. This is not what SWIM felt. The only benefit SWIM could find from this is good concentration for an hour, which he can easily get from adderall (at a much cheaper price!) Perhaps coke is not a good drug for people with ADHD like SWIM? Or maybe the he was given low-quality stuff?

On a side note, what is a good way of telling whether or not you have good quality stuff?

Thanks!

[Benga]

merged with the related thread, "health" prefix.

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Enjoy, and try to avoid creating new thread if there is one already.

b

[kniouk]

Epote, Swim can relate to what you are saying. Swim also suffers from ADD and finds that coke helps him to focus more and really concentrate on what he is studying or writing. For Swim it is not the addiction that makes him want more, but the ability to calm his mind and focus when work or life is busy and requires he concentrates on certain things.

[ladenburg]

Originally Posted by epote

The whole thing actually i can say it was a much more pronounced version of the effect that ridalin has on me.

could ADD or physiologicaly decreased levels of dopamine could explaine why some people dont seem to respond the same way as most to cocaine?

Methylphenidate (Ritalin) is an inhibitor of the reuptake of dopamine and noradrenaline. Cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline (in that order). Physiological differences between people affecting the function of those neurotransmitters account for most of the differences in how people respond to drugs affecting those neurotransmitters.

[eltimmy]

>Cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline

IIRC Cocaine is actually something like 5:3:2 NA/DA/S. But yeah, strong affinity for serotonin compared to methylphenidate.

The main problem with using cocaine for ADD/ADHD is poor half-life combined with (I think; perhaps you could fill me in here ladenburg by your norcocaine comment) unfavorable oral bioavailability (and cost, illegality, etc.). But yes, there is no pharmacological reason otherwise that this could not be effective in correcting DA hypofunction. Note that in treating ADD/ADHD therapeutically, a distinction must be made between euphoric effects (which develop rapid tolerance) and therapeutic effects.

[ladenburg]

Originally Posted by eltimmy

>Cocaine is a reuptake inhibitor of dopamine, serotonin and noradrenaline

IIRC Cocaine is actually something like 5:3:2 NA/DA/S.

If you mean greater potency at the NAT, I'm inclined to suggest that you're mistaken, but due to the existence of multiple genetic variants of the monoamine transporter proteins - even within a single species (human, rat, mouse, etc.) - the question may have different answers depending on more specific details.

The main problem with using cocaine for ADD/ADHD is poor half-life combined with (I think; perhaps you could fill me in here ladenburg by your norcocaine comment) unfavorable oral bioavailability (and cost, illegality, etc.). But yes, there is no pharmacological reason otherwise that this could not be effective in correcting DA hypofunction. Note that in treating ADD/ADHD therapeutically, a distinction must be made between euphoric effects (which develop rapid tolerance) and therapeutic effects.

Short half-life would be disadvantageous in an immediate release pill formulation, but might be beneficial in other formulations, for example by reducing the risk of insomnia. It's a fact that cocaine has been used successfully for enhanced focus and productivity, much like caffeine and other stimulants. The reasons why it's not widely available as an OTC or prescription medicine have more to do with politics and business than chemistry or pharmacology. Generally speaking, if modern society did more to support and encourage creative psychopharmacological explorers rather than persecute them (as with Shulgin) it's likely that a greater selection of effective therepeutic agents for AD/HD and other conditions would be available.

[Digemlo]

This may sound like an off-topic question, but SWIM means in all in well-being: what does SWIY enjoy doing normally?