Opinions - Do we stand any chance of ever ending the war on drugs?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Could it happen in our lifetime?I would like to say yes but my outlook on that is pretty grim.Any on this issue?

Reputation Comments on this post:

good question

[Buddah]

Well i dont belive I will see it completly legal but i belive my children will...

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Could it happen in our lifetime?I would like to say yes but my outlook on that is pretty grim.Any on this issue?

Did anyone ever think the cold war would've ended in our lifetimes.. to see the Berlin wall fall, and the dissolution of the Soviet Union? And here we are, a generation later now that knows nothing much of the cold war at all... One Bankrupt Empire, Goes the Same Way As Any Other...

The US will implode soon into bankruptcy and economic collapse. And when it does, prohibition will follow right along into the hole, as it's the corrupt US regime and corporatocracy which holds up the edifice of world prohibitionism.

It's time to stop begging and pleading for change.. and instead DEMAND IT! Fear not, live courageously or else you are already dead!

Peace & Divinity
Love is the Law, Love Under Will

Baudeaux Machs

Reputation Comments on this post:

	good post!
	Good philosophy, & accurate prediction

[Riconoen {UGC}]

I think pot will be legalized whitin our lifetimes, it's pretty much inevitable. As for the other drugs i thik that'll take alot longer.

[The Doors]

SWIM believes that in order for drugs to be legalized (or have some sort of regulation though he believes that certain drugs should still be available for recreational usage) the proper information needs to be out. We have so many proofs out there and most people actually start thinking once SWIM tells them about the many psychological beneficial aspects that some people have experienced from E, LSD, shrooms... It's time to get the truth out and fuck the DEA!

[bcubed]

Yeah, I think we're seeing a move towards legal pot in the US: plenty of states decriminalize posession. Heck, Obama even admitted to doing coke and pot in his past, and the response was a collective yawn. His two predecessors all but said they used, too.

I think we're starting to see battle fatigue set in amongst many Americans. So many are dismayed over the costs to society, as the cost of drugs goes down and purity goes up. One of the tenets of the WOD crowd, that drug use is most properly treated as a criminal act, is rapidly falling out of favor (though it's being replaced with the 12-step "culture of victimization" concept, which is troubling).

The federal gov't is the big problem. Notice what's happened with "medical use": all these "States' Rights" conservatives are doing an about-face and urging a federal crackdown. What we really need is a Libertarian who successfully defends a state's rights towards legalization in court.

While the "Moral Majority" right is proabably the biggest impediment, there are a fair share of "nanny state" leftists out there. For evidence, note that online gambling (another pleasurable vice) was recently made a FELONY by a Democratic Washington State.

[zera]

Electronic money that can be transferred easily between nation states will lead to the collapse of governments everywhere as no one will be able to raise enough revenue to meet their pre-existing obligations. Once the world says bye-bye to the state, we'll say bye-bye to the drug war.

The logical endpoint of globalization is either a single world government or governments competing each other out of existence. I'm pretty sure that the former option has no hope of ever coming to fruition.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Incisive prediction

[darawk]

I think marijuana will be legalized soon...and once that happens, everything else will follow fairly quickly, because it will really start to hit home with the average person how much they've been lied to about these substances.

Reputation Comments on this post:

Dont think'll be quite that easy.

[pankreeas]

"can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the facts givin' it back to you"

From the lips of 2-Pac Shakur. It's a poignant statement that will until the end of time, or end of human kind, validate itself. Written in the mid 90's those lyrics still ring true. There's still a unanamous priority put towards the war on drugs over the war on poverty. There's still a "my cock is bigger than yours" bloodbath in the middle east, and most crimes could be avoided with some friggin reasonable decisions.

So no.. it will never end. Someone always wants to be the big bad sherrif....

Reputation Comments on this post:

Well said

[baudmax]

Originally Posted by pankreeas

"can't a brother get a little peace
It's war on the streets & the war in the Middle East
Instead of war on poverty they got a war on drugs
so the police can bother me
And I ain't never did a crime I ain't have to do
But now I'm back with the facts givin' it back to you"

From the lips of 2-Pac Shakur. It's a poignant statement that will until the end of time, or end of human kind, validate itself. Written in the mid 90's those lyrics still ring true. There's still a unanamous priority put towards the war on drugs over the war on poverty. There's still a "my cock is bigger than yours" bloodbath in the middle east, and most crimes could be avoided with some friggin reasonable decisions.

So no.. it will never end. Someone always wants to be the big bad sherrif....

Hmmm... which brings to mind "I shot the Sheriff"... -Marley

Do we accept with passive lament the depressing status quo, or fight like devils 'til we have the kind of world we want?

Peace & Divinity
Baudeaux Machs

[The Doors]

I can see a lot of things done with the 40billion dollars the US alone spends on the war on drugs, now imagine throughout the world.

[Police Officer]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Could it happen in our lifetime?I would like to say yes but my outlook on that is pretty grim.Any on this issue?

No. Mainly because people like you are fighting the war to legalize drugs. Why do I say people like you? Because you made this statement in a different thread:

"These pigs are just bad people through and through.Anyone that could destroy families,incarcerate non violent offenders to be raped and murdered by violent ones in jail,use violence and intimidation on others for a living is evil.A cop is not a good person,there is no officer friendly.Anyone that is opposed to the basic and ancient human rights of using mind altering substances has no grasp of spirituallity.They have no interest in protecting or serving."

Reputation Comments on this post:

I do not agree with the actions of most police officers and their violence against non-violent crimes.

[darawk]

Originally Posted by Police Officer

No. Mainly because people like you are fighting the war to legalize drugs. Why do I say people like you? Because you made this statement in a different thread:

"These pigs are just bad people through and through.Anyone that could destroy families,incarcerate non violent offenders to be raped and murdered by violent ones in jail,use violence and intimidation on others for a living is evil.A cop is not a good person,there is no officer friendly.Anyone that is opposed to the basic and ancient human rights of using mind altering substances has no grasp of spirituallity.They have no interest in protecting or serving."

1. People with those ideas have counter-parts on the anti-drug side as well. Those who condemn all drug users as burnouts/losers/addicts/etc... and i'd say those people are significantly more prevalent than the "i hate pigs" stereotype above.

2. I would argue that he is absolutely right about any cop that enforces drug laws. Particularly DEA agents. Ignorance is not an excuse for destroying peoples lives arbitrarily. They might have good intentions, but so did most of the nazi's. When you're killing people and ruining lives, good intentions aren't enough - you are also responsible for being right. And these people are not right - so the ruines lives and unnecessary deaths are on all of their collective heads, even on all the collective heads of the anti-drug movement in general. It wouldn't bother me in the slightest to see the lot of them executed. That is especially true of the government's pet doctors, who really do know better.

[Nagognog2]

I have to agree, and I'm glad you ^^^ brought this to attention.

A way to make peace happen requires that all people are inclusive in the plan. Most police are good folks who want to change the world for the better - bound by laws that are, often, unjust. It's not a perfect world. But to condemn the one bound by the law as the architect is wrong.

You know well that if you came home one day and found your family, lover, dog - whatever murdered - you'd pick up the phone and call...who? Your pot dealer? Nope. Guess again.

Once again please refrain from generalizations on this forum - and in your life. I've had interactions with police in my life. Some who deserved to be pushed off a cliff. And it took me awhile to understand individuals v. bad apples. If you want to end this insane war on drugs, then you must also see beyond the image and act in an inclusive manner. To all people.

I suggest a film to watch that has an amazing scene in it with a former police officer. The title is "Missing" with Jack Lemmon. A true story based in Chile in 1973. It might help one to gain perspective.

[Woodman]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Most police are good folks who want to change the world for the better - bound by laws that are, often, unjust. It's not a perfect world. But to condemn the one bound by the law as the architect is wrong.

Indeed, this is true.
But this should not be taken to mean that Police should be afforded absolution for exercising unjust bureaucratic policies any more than Nazis were afforded any similar exemption for their part in WW2.

Ask any Nazi and I'm sure THEY will tell you that they... "are good folks who want to change the world for the better,".

Or perhaps they were just... "bound by laws that are, often, unjust."

And if it is "WRONG to condemn the one bound to the law as made by the architect," then why are none of these bound slaves standing up on behalf of the people they pretend to serve and voice opposition to the architect?

Do they serve the people, or the architect?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Very good point

[grandbaby]

Hey, PO. Glad to see you back. And as sweet and demure as ever.

[Alicia]

Police being only the enforcers to the laws in place with out any real evidence to there harm well there is just nothing factual or if it is, worded negativity without listing any positives. what with all peoples experiences and media tell tales its a very difficult task to even to know where to begin.

Harm reduction would be a good place to start maybe. everyone will have there own issues to a given substances. So actual facts rather then scare tactics would be the way forward.

[allyourbase]

the "war on drugs" is just a method for the rich powerful DRUG DEALERS running our country to control the value of their wares. with drugs being illegal they can charge far more for their wares, and in the case especially of opiates, people would turn to safer alternatives if they were readily available. heroin is a disgusting material, it causes permanent renal damage from as little as one use, most opiates are no where near as bad for you, and many are indeed stronger than heroin, so why is heroin still the opiate of trade? because the politicians dealing it like richard armitage hate the poor, the indigient, who are on the bottom line buying these toxins. if you want to get rid of the war on drugs, vote the drug dealers (republicans primarily) out of office. the drug war is a front of the societal war against the poor. nixon first introduced it as a way to lock hippies up, and take away voting rights from black men. later you have the CIA, on orders from Reagan, bringing in metric tonnes of powder cocaine. every bit of the serious traffic of what we call "heavy drugs" is financed by the politicians at the top then sold to the poor by street gangs run by FBI and CIA agents. as illegal commodities they keep the prices up, keep the allure, oh this is something "they" dont want you to have. then creating organizations like customs, not to really keep out drugs, but to keep out contenders, to police the shipping to make sure no rivals to the neocon opium ring emerges. the cult to which george w bush belongs, the satanicly inspired skull and bones, was started by one william huntington russel, an opium trader. we recently learned of a study that proved that "antidrug" commercials act more as a commercial for illegal drugs than a detterrant, I argue theyve always known that, why do you think reagan showed up on tv with pounds of crack cocaine during the years he was buying tons and tons of cocaine from noriega at a time when to say crack cocaine usage was a scarcity would have been an understatement, and it worked, all the poor people watching thought "gee, that must be one killer high". why do you think AFTER we know what these antidrug commercials do, in terms of drug use, bush is forcing through billions more dollars on them, glamourizing these substances as "forbidden fruit" to our CHILDREN.

Reputation Comments on this post:

good post

[grandbaby]

Anyone who thinks all cops are evil should take a flying LEAP. (Not as flamey as it sounds, kids. If you don't know about LEAP, do check out their website.)

It's easy enough from the comfort of your armchair to completely dismiss an entire occupation (or even the ones that enforce the "bad" laws), but much harder to walk in their shoes. Imagine you've put years of training and hard work into your career, struggled like hell, put your family through difficult times and yourself through hella stress (rookie cops get the shit shifts and the shit work) and all of a sudden you realize the WoD is the cause of, not the cure for, all the drug-related violence you've seen, maybe that has killed some friends of yours. You have the choice to either enforce the laws like you've vowed to, or you can go become a security guard somewhere for eight bucks an hour, no health care and no pension. It's flushing your whole life down the toilet. Easier to stick your head in the sand, right?

(And I'm not saying you're not right, darawk, at some fundamental level, about the Nazi comparison. In a system based on hierarchy and obedience — like the police, or the military, or the Mormon church — the potential for systematic evil is very great.)

But on another level it does excuse them. It must. Or we all go down in a spiral; the (much greater) evil of planet-wide pollution (to change tacks a bit) is a direct result of our lifestyles: our cars and our central heating and our lights and our computers and our Gore-Tex jackets and everything. At a fundamental level every one of us is complicit in that evil. Not one of us can escape culpability, no matter how organically we try to live or how small a footprint we try to leave. And future generations will look back at us, as we look back at the Nazis, as some of us now look at LEOs, and condemn us with all their hearts — how could we do that? Why didn't we stop?

And the answer is, we didn't have much of a choice.

I've met some bad cops and I've known some very good ones. I've met drywallers without whom the world would be a better place and some that light up a room when they enter, too ... folks is folks. Don't blame cops for the WoD — blame the lawmakers, the system, Pfizer, Chrysler — work to change the laws, support D-F and Erowid, support LEAP and NORML, petition your elected representatives to make legal medical MJ a reality and move on from there. Do speak out against police brutality and the arbitrary exercise of unreasonable power (damn, Fnord, I'd probably hate cops too if I had the experiences you've had with them — oh, wait, that's a different thread), but if you get busted while smoking a joint on the street ... well, you knows the rules and you takes your chances breakin' 'em.

/rant

[darawk]

Originally Posted by grandbaby

But on another level it does excuse them. It must. Or we all go down in a spiral; the (much greater) evil of planet-wide pollution (to change tacks a bit) is a direct result of our lifestyles: our cars and our central heating and our lights and our computers and our Gore-Tex jackets and everything. At a fundamental level every one of us is complicit in that evil. Not one of us can escape culpability, no matter how organically we try to live or how small a footprint we try to leave. And future generations will look back at us, as we look back at the Nazis, as some of us now look at LEOs, and condemn us with all their hearts — how could we do that? Why didn't we stop?

In that case I retract my statement about law enforcement officers in general. However it still stands for:

1. Any employeee of NIDA.
2. Any DEA agent.
3. Any of the doctors that go on record and lie about these substances for the gov.'s benefit.

Basically, anyone who pro-actively pursues/targets drug users. You're right, in the case of cops that are just enforcing those laws to not get fired, they are somewhat exempt from this.

[emineo]

Chicago police officer beats up female bartender:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=576_1174529756

I won't even mention the cover up that was attempted and organized obstruction of justice the Chicago PD used in what ultimately amounted to RICO violations.

There was another less publicized event of similar circumstances during the same time period.

The only thing remarkable about this, is that it was caught on camera.

Municipal police forces are some of the smallest men I have ever met and serve very little real purpose that necessitates their power.

[Sitbcknchill]

Originally Posted by Orchid_Suspiria

Could it happen in our lifetime?I would like to say yes but my outlook on that is pretty grim.Any on this issue?

It is a slow process but there is light at the end of the tunnel. It makes me smile to read articles like this. Gives me a little hope. Of course not every drug stands a chance of being legalized but one drug I would like to see legalized across the board in my lifetime is marijuana. I hope they put forth more effort in the research of the medicinal effects.

[Nagognog2]

I'll just give fair warning. And you can try to jump on me, Woodie. We don't let people bash and flame here. You are - once again - walking a fine line. And you know to what I am refering. And my box is filling up with complaints.

Neither you, or anyone, may declare open season on ANY member due to said members occupation. Neither can PO. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if PO brought in his whole department for bashing the freaks, now wood you?

This is a chance to see things from the other side and ask questions to learn how it got to be this way. And then learn what methods could be used to address and change the situation in a mutually beneficial manner. And I have no intention of letting it slip through our fingers just so some members can feel they are cool by smugly attacking an unpopular avocation and the person(s) who holds such. We are not addressing a camp guard from Treblinka or Bergen-Belsen.

Save your venom for those who truly deserve it. Divide & Conquer tactics fuck up everything - no matter which side you are on.

Reputation Comments on this post:

true; can hardly be said enough

[Alicia]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Save your venom for those who truly deserve it. Divide & Conquer tactics fuck up everything - no matter which side you are on.

Very true not everyone is a bad person the rest can be buried and forgotten about. sometimes sense and reason rather then hate works well.

[Silverbackman]

If Ron Paul becomes president, the drug war will definitely end in our lifetimes. He is one of the few candidates that has been extremly outspoken towards it. If he had the power to he would end the War on Drugs.

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