storing GHB?

[DrStrange]

Odd question I know (nothing i could find in search engine land) but anyone know about shelf life and best storage methods for liquid GHB? Will putting jar in freezer help prolong life or hurt it? Most importantly, how long a time will it stay good for and as it goes "off" will the break down products hurt you or just be less potent?

Muchos gracias (as they say down south)

[MrG]

Not sure how freezing might impact the cell structure of liquid GHB. To be honest, the recommendation to store in the fridge is more about preserving the liquid from bacterial contamination in the same way that any liquid such as mineral water and fruit juice is best stored at a cool temp.

If one were to make a fresh batch of GHB and store it unopened in an airtight container in a cupboard it would still be ok months later.

If SWIY is looking to preserve it so that it doesn't have to sit in the fridge on public display then he doesn't have to worry as it can be kept anywhere he feels is safe.

[DrStrange]

Actually the question comes because SWIM seems to have used up his capacity for it for awhile. Was using it for sleep and he'd get 3+ hours of deepdeep then wake and take another dose and go until morning. Same for the little woman. Now however, SWIM only stays out for about an hour and then BOINNNNG wide awake. His wife now gets knocked out still but finds if she uses it more than very occasionally she is ferociously irritable next day. Likely both suffering from the dopamine bump.

[MrG]

Well the waking up will be the rebound and the decreasing time asleep will be tolerance build up. Research doesn't show there to be a tolerance issue with GHB but that is probably because the pharma doses of Xyrem will be high enough that they are beyond what the body could overcome through tolerance anyway.

Most rec users, however, are aware of a gradual physiological tolerance to GHB over a protracted period of regular use (daily use, not necessarily just hourly users). This usually calls for *slightly* increased dosing patterns to overcome it and doesn't progress much more than that.

As for the dopamine rebound (boinnnnnnng! AWAKE!) it will depend on the size of the dose. SWIM takes multiple small doses through the evening (1-1.5g) and doesn't tend to get rebound. If taken as pharma directed though (Xyrem), it would be a single larger dose (4.5g+_) taken in bed ready for sleep and then repeated four hours later when the rebound hits.

Irritability the next day should not be a factor as G is broken down very quickly by the body and therefore there is no harsh comedown issue. It may well be more to do with an incorrect dosing pattern messing up the sleep cycle to the extent that the user wakes up cranky and tired.

[radiometer]

For how long might one expect a well made GHB solution in water to last in the refrigerator, airtight?

[MrG]

The simple answer is this: How long would one feel comfortable keeping a bottle of boiled water in the fridge for?

I would imagine that if SWIY were to make a fresh batch and bottle it before it has time to cool down fully then it would probably eliminate the chances of bacterial contamination from the air and would therefore be safe for a number of months maybe years.

The actual G mixture is stable it is only about the maintaining the freshness of the liquid.

[DrStrange]

Interesting. Dosage for SWIM and Mrs SWIM has been approx 1.5 grams at bed time (9:30) then again around 1pm. Mrs only was taking it in the middle of the night mostly as taking it early then repeating made her wake up earlier in the morning than she liked. But...small doses once or twice per night. The Mrs. is VERY sensitive and tends to have idiosynractic reactions to many substances so that's likely an issue there. Mr. SWIM did up the dose to about 2 gm and found he was still waking in short time and was more groggy and feeling hung over in the morning until mid morning. Kinda dopey.

[MrG]

The smaller rebound from 1.5g-2g taken as an attempted sleep aid will mean that sleep patterns *are* being disrupted. Instead of the proper deep and rem sleep cycle occurring through a pharma dose leaving the user feeling refreshed and awake in the morning, SWIY and Mrs SWIY are taking a rec sized dose and therefore the sleep cycle is not the full four hours expected from standard sleep aiding dosages.

Standard pharma dosing requires two doses. One taken just before sleep and another taken four hours later upon waking. In the morning the patient has received a *full* eight hours of quality deep and rem sleep.

Trouble is that SWIY won't know what a doctor's idea of a pharma dose would be for him and larger doses mean that SWIY will be less likely to wake very easily should he need to (if children or early alarms are an issue).

[DrStrange]

For awhile the rec dose was giving 3 1/2 to 4 hours deep sleep. 2 doses per night resulted in very refresed wake up and feeling good all day. SWIM might have to try a socko dose and see what happens. Actually he didn't really like the feeling when he went up to 2 gms. That same feeling lots of folks love, he said he finds a bit too close to queasy to be pleasant.

[London_Bloke]

Originally Posted by MrG

Not sure how freezing might impact the cell structure ......

IT'S ALIVE!!!
Uh, no it isn't..... "not sure how freezing might damage the molecular structure?"

[frodo2007]

You could always use a vacuum storage container (Amazon have a few examples) if you're thinking of storing it for a long time. If you get most of the air out and keep it in the fridge I would imagine it would keep for a very long time.

[Psych0naut]

The GHB salts Na-GHB and K-GHB are very stable, and when made with distilled water and kept in a cool, dark space, it stays well for many years, even more so when it's kept in a dark bottle in a fridge, this way one can be shure it stays well longer than it takes to consume it.

[radiometer]

Thanks for the tips guys. SWIM is a mild alcoholic, so he very rarely gets a chance to use the GHB he was lucky enough to acquire.

[jim1965]

as it is a salt solution, why not evaporate off the water and get nice white salt which can be stored no problem? just take care - not too much heat

[MrG]

Because it is incredibly hygroscopic and, chances are if left stored with even a small amount of moisture in the air, will be found in due course to have turned into a yellowy gloop.

[pillz]

swim thinks that this situation was mentioned once before in the forum or may have beenon some other website. but for storage it may have to be stored in an airtight container. unsure if thats true or not but thats what swim read.

[garbled]

I have to wonder if a few drops of chlorine bleach in the bottles SWIY is storing would prevent bacteria from growing in it?

[radiometer]

The GHB in question is still good after almost two months, just kept in a generic water bottle in the fridge.

[MrG]

Don't forget that GHB is a salt based solution so it is unlikely that anything much would be able to tolerate that.

[garbled]

Originally Posted by MrG

Don't forget that GHB is a salt based solution so it is unlikely that anything much would be able to tolerate that.

Why do you say that? So is the ocean.

I have heard of people finding black specks in their liquids kept in dark cabinets, etc. Refrigeration should help, and given the lower freezing point of salt solutions, you could probably even keep it in the freezer with no problem.

[robertone]

Since Swim is not aware of any organism that's living in the Dead Sea (except for some tourist taking a bad) MrG has right. Anyhow, pure GHB powder can be stored for years in vacuum sealed bags. And the same for well produced (GMP (good manufacture practice)) and packed liquid GHB. Growing black spots in GHB based liquids, as wel as any smell, are signs of inpurity of the product. Shelf live of inpure products is inpredictable!

[MrG]

^^^^ Thanks 'tone.

garbled, GHB even when diluted at the last stage of the recipe still makes for an incredibly salty solution. More saline than sea water.

Of course, that then leads to the ultimate conclusion:

If one were to make up the recipe for GHB with Sodium Hydroxide but *not* add the final water at the end to dilute, then one has a salt solution that would be nigh on impossible for bacteria to grow in and could be stored very easily, in smaller quantities than before as it is concentrated, in non-refrigerated environments.

Say a convenient hiding place. Purely theoretically speaking of course.

Although the container would have to be resistant to salt corrosion though.

[garbled]

Originally Posted by MrG

garbled, GHB even when diluted at the last stage of the recipe still makes for an incredibly salty solution. More saline than sea water.

Of course, that then leads to the ultimate conclusion:

If one were to make up the recipe for GHB with Sodium Hydroxide but *not* add the final water at the end to dilute, then one has a salt solution that would be nigh on impossible for bacteria to grow in and could be stored very easily, in smaller quantities than before as it is concentrated, in non-refrigerated environments.

Guys, note the smiley in my post. I wasn't serious.

As for the solution made without the final water addition, my lab monkey once did that, and the solution was SO concentrated that every time he just wet the inside of his mouth with the solution, no more, he would go to sleep. Now that was concentrated.

[MrG]

Originally Posted by garbled

Now that was concentrated.

No, that was daft.

!

[jim1965]

just another view but SWIM has now had white solid for 2 months in airtight container and ok for use - a little bit waxy now but each to their own used the tinfoil evap method - made huge amount of nice white cake - SWIM gave some to a friends monkey and it is pretty impressive when SWIM presents massive amount (cf materials like mdma where small amounts) - the monkeys face was worth the effort to get the solid! something comforting about this way of taking it vs. the solvent in pipette too

still, as long as everyone is happy