Opinions - Are there any drugs that can create motion?

[astraltraveller]

Hi guys,

I am into astral projection, as in (Out of body experiences) I have had a few but from within a dream state, and i have also had a few lucid dreams.

I have been wanting for years to have a full blown conscious out of body experience, you know one in which you don't go to sleep first.

There are loads of ways that teach you on the internet but i just really have not had the success, i have had near success but then it never happens, i don't leave my body. One of the techniques is to visualize yourself swinging, and then you will swing out of the body. But i wonder is there any drugs out there that can have an effect on you which makes it seem like you are gently moving in your bed?

I wonder if there is a Non hallucinogenic drug, which is legal or even illegal, that does not last very long, just say about 30 minutes which gives me more than enough time to come out of the body and have the experience and then enter back in. I hope their is a drug that is not dangerous, only lasts around 30 minutes, does not impair judgement but only gives you a feeling of movement like your swinging from side to side, you know the feeling like when you come back to dry land after being on a sailing yacht for a few days.

Is there any drug quite like that?

Any help much appreciated


Many many thanks

[Alfa]

Non-hallucinogenic? Damn, you just rules out the best chances on it.
MDA(a tad hallucinogenic, but not full blown) and MDMA give chance on OBE's as well, but SWIY might not realise SWIY is having them. Many people do not realize they are having an Out of Body Experience when on XTC.

But search this site and you will find more tips. There is a thread on this.

[dreamatrix]

euhmm a non halucinogenic out of body experience??.. sounds realy tricky to swim hehe, if you dream you hallucinate swim thinks ?no?. if you want to enter the lucid dream world, the astral plain, whaterver one might call it without goin to sleep, it realy takes a whole lot of concious effort troughout your daily activities and not to many distractions in life , or be lucky and have a very vivid imagination (prewired as swim likes to call it hehe) , but gathering from your post swim senses thats not the case, why do you think monks,sadhus,yogi and the like seperate themselves from society for extended periods ,anyway swims best recommendation for a full blown shortlasting out of body experience would be dmt ,, but thats about as halucinogenic and ou of control as it gets so ,the only other path is meditation and practice practice practice swim gues's ,if you want the experience to come from within you there is realy no drug that like switches your mind 'at will' lets say , it would have surfaced aleady swim thinks hehe, some dark therapy might do the trick too but i guess you dont have two weeks time to sit in a dark room without any sensory inputt,, floatation tanks maybe are an option too but swim cant comment on the real effect because swim hasnt tried it yet , the path to this kind of mental control is realy more like a decision to live life a certain way not somth to switch on like a televisionhope swim was helpfull

[Nagognog2]

Bongo has found Kava~Kava quite useful for entering into astral-projection states, as well as facilitating lucid dreaming. One or two cups, traditionaly prepared, was adequite to relax while maintaining full focus.

[baudmax]

As you were inquiring about non-hallucinogenic OOBE induction promotion, I suggest you might look into binaural beat, and established RV techniques.

If you are big into Astral Projection, then you've very possibly read some of Robert A. Monroe's books like Journeys Out of the Body, where he discusses his hemi-synch binaural brain wave driving technology. SBaGen includes some beat files which replicate the various Gateway (a/k/a Focus) levels, as described by the Monroe Institute; Use of binaural beat brainwave driving/entrainment to induce OOBEs.

SBaGen - Binaural Brain Wave Generator
http://sbagen.sourceforge.net/

SRI's Stargate RV Manuals (also, a new, "open source RV manual" are also out there.. I saved them somewhere, which came from here: http://www.remoteviewed.com/

Incidentally, there was astory today about the UK MoD enlisting "psychics" to try and locate Bin Laden here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1811

Maybe the US could find him with their "target army" (mentioned by Monroe in his books), IF they wanted to catch Osama Bin Forgotten, but he is muych more useful to them perpetually on the run...


Navy SEAL officer’s report on ‘remote viewing’ urges ‘transcendent’
intelligence
Steve Hammons
December 26, 2006
http://www.americanchronicle.com/art...rticleID=18354
As part of his studies at the Marine War College, in 2001 a Navy SEAL
officer submitted a paper on the interesting phenomena often called
“remote viewing,” a form of extrasensory perception (ESP).

The paper was titled, “Unconventional Human Intelligence Support:
Transcendent and Asymmetric Warfare Implications of Remote Viewing” and
was submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the Marine
War College, Marine Corps University, Marine Corps Combat Development
Command, Quantico, Virgina.

In the paper, L.R. Bremseth, then a Navy commander, provided an overview
of the history of some of the known research, development and operations
involving remote viewing by elements of the U.S. Government from 1972
until 1995.

Peace & Divinity
Baudeaux Machs

[allyourbase]

so...no hallucinogens, how about some deleriants? I know a few tropane alkaloids that will disembody your consciousness, maybe even permanently.

[Nagognog2]

Ummmm..."delieriants" are true hallucinogens by definition. A hallucination infers seeing something (or otherwise percieving) that is not there, but being being able to tell it's not there. And that is what tropine alkaloids do.

[astraltraveller]

Hey guys

Many thanks for all the great replies, I did research some of the drugs that you have mentioned and I am actually not quite sure if I want to go ahead taking any. I use to smoke hash many years ago, did some skunk and I think a friend gave me a spliff of skunk and coke. I have never taken any pills and I really don't want to. I researched kava kava, kava tea and read that research test shows that it can effect your liver, so that's pulls me right away.

I do meditate once a week in a class and have been doing this for a few months now, and I have been practicing tai chi for over 2 years now. And Qi Gong for about a year now. I do feel energy moving through my body and I can move it freely as well.


I have been trying to have fully conscious out of body experiences OBE for many years now but just no success, they say Tai chi and Qi Gong helps which is why I have been practicing those martial arts.

The one thing that I have learned from all the techniques that I have tried for an OBE is that really you don't need drugs instead you just need to be highly relaxed and not fearful of anything. But I have tried all those things and just thought that perhaps drugs maybe the key for me to have a successful conscious OBE.



I had some of the symptoms of an OBE while on a skiing holiday a few years back. I had been skiing up and down to about 2150m for a few hours of the day, I was quite unfit at the time, oxygen levels at that height was a bit much for me, later in the day I went swimming in the hotel, then I was in the hot tub, then sauna, steam room, ice cold shower, and later I started getting really tired and I went to bed around 11:30 pm and I was just laying on my side and suddenly it felt like my bed was moving into the middle of the room, but I knew it wasn't, but it felt like it was and I was getting heavier and heavier and could feel my body shutting down and I felt a swirly and dizzy kind of feeling, I got a little scared and stopped and sat up for a while and then went back to bed and slept like a log and had normal sleep. I believe if I was not so scared and really focusing on wanting to have an OBE it may of happened, back then I did not know much about lucid dreaming and OBE. Back then when I had this feeling in the hotel room it was like I was dissociated from reality. But since then I have felt that perhaps I can create this dissociation effect without needing any drugs or aids, I feel if I can visualise myself rocking or swinging then I will swing out of my body and have an OBE. I read many visualisations techniques on this but have had no success in doing it, which is why I came on here looking for a plant or drug that can put me in a temporary sedative state, that makes me swingy and a little dizzy and so I am not fearful but just not thinking as much so I can visualise and rock the body to come out and have an OBE.

Kava kava looked like something that could help in the aid of an OBE but I don't like it because it can cause liver damage, I have a list and I hope you can tell me which would be best.

Plant or drug, that can be either taken in a tea, pill, or fruit juices, or just burnt in a pot like incense.

That does not cause any brain diseases or body damage such as liver damage,

no weird side effects

But just a disassociated feeling, clear thinking, but less thinkful more focused on say visualization, clear mind, trippy feeling as if the room is moving you know the feeling that i described in my first post as when you come off a boat after a few days on board you get a feeling on dry land that the room is moving.

Is there anything like that

All help much appreciated


Many many thanks

[seechao]

Well, SWIM will go out on a limb here, and suggest a few drugs that may be what your looking for, or may be way way off... but they are short acting, and in the use your suggesting, mostly without negative side effects.

SWIM's first, legal, suggestion would be salvia, salvia seems to be an astral bungee cord/cannon, definatly out of body, fast acting, and does not last very long at all, it also seems to be remarkably side effect free. There is alot of information available about it here, and on the web, and it is widely available.

DMT and 5-meo-DMT are also very short acting, but produce a very spiritual, awe inspiring experiance, these are amazing substances, that definatly take you out of your body, and should be looked into at the very least, but may not be the state of mind SWIY is looking for.

Lastly, Ketamin has been used to cause OBEs and is used medicaly at higher doses than required for inducing them. It could be considered very safe, occassional use by informed idividuals, is quite safe, but abuse and ignorance could turn it into something quite dangerous. SWIM suggests SWIY reads about it, however SWIM isnt sure if SWIY would be interested in it.

[Nagognog2]

Kava~Kave does NOT cause liver damage. Why do people persist in believing this big, fat lie? It was put out there by the same "scientists" that used methamphetamine to test MDMA for brain damage! They gave Kava to last-stage alcoholics WITH LIVER DAMAGE and said Kava caused the liver damage - NOT 40 years of drinking whiskey every day! Wake up!

[darkglobe]

Try www.bwgen.com it's a much better binaural beat generator than SBAGen. Try the preset library too. I'm sure there's licenses available on certain fruit-based P2P programs...

Also, while not strictly related to OOBE's, try googling the Ganzfeld effect. This is something that can be replicated cheaply and easily.

I personally would advise Dextromethorphan or Salvia Divinorum in low-moderate doses (granted Salvia isn't the easiest to dose-watch) a low dose of opiate (this is optional and many find it has a negative effect) and a cup of coffee. I find the coffee essential. But I'm odd.

Anyhoo... ganzfeld/binaural (I recommend binaural at 7.68Hz) combined with LOW doses of hypnotic/hallucinogenic substances will create that extra little bit of mental oomph.

It's hard to explain but it worked for me. May have been luck though, as I've only ever achieved an OOBE once. In fact, I've only tried Salvia once (not self-incrimination - It's legal here in the UK). As for DXM, at low doses it actually gives me some mental clarity.

Anyhoo... I realise this isn't the most informative post but I've attempted to blag my way through a topic I know little about, but yeah, the aforementioned substances helped me.

[darkglobe]

Also, on the swingy/dizzy bit, I've heard alcohol and Caffeine may help. Not enough alocohol to significantly enhance cognitive abilities, but possibly enough to create that tipsy feeling when you lie down. Caffeine to keep your brain alert and working.

[Micklemouse]

Originally Posted by dark_globe

Try www.bwgen.com it's a much better binaural beat generator than SBAGen. Try the preset library too. I'm sure there's licenses available on certain fruit-based P2P programs...

And it works on Linux with WINE! Gotta love it! It is shareware though, so will stop working after a month unless you get a license.

[seechao]

I've been interested in binaural beats for a while, played bit with brainwavegenerator, as well as a few monroe institute cds, but dont have a good set of headphones and havent gotten much out of them, however, the curiosity is still there, and I've been looking for a good set of headphones. I've also been intrigued by electro neuro stimulation and light stimulation, been considering building a combined electrode/glasses set. Has anyone played with these? i'm particularly interested in occult/shamanistic usage of these devices, using them to force my psyche into altered states and help me get there faster. I'm a stuborn bastard, I have done things that die hard psychonauts and mystics would think insane, and still managed to keep a grip on "reality". The few glipses I have seen where caused by extreme circumstances or came without warning or provocation. Any experiances with external stimulie other than chemical would be of great interest to me, and greatly apreciated.

[svenghali]

Along with what's been said, SWIM would go with maybe DXM (definately dissociative, minor if any hallucinations) and salvia definetly ensures an out of body experience, although SWIM has always thought that salvia tears him out of his body, and takes some getting used to.

[Nacumen]

Originally Posted by Nagognog2

Kava~Kave does NOT cause liver damage. Why do people persist in believing this big, fat lie? It was put out there by the same "scientists" that used methamphetamine to test MDMA for brain damage! They gave Kava to last-stage alcoholics WITH LIVER DAMAGE and said Kava caused the liver damage - NOT 40 years of drinking whiskey every day! Wake up!

QFT x100.

I had a good laugh when I read this. I don't know why I found it funny; perhaps laughing was my body's way of communicating how ridiculous I agreed the studies to be.

Earlier this afternoon I was explaining to some people that the one 'conclusive' study of MDMA on brain damage was completely botched and/or falsified. The response I received was an expected one, "You're stupid, you're going to fuck up your brain." I didn't even admit to MDMA use, I merely shared facts with my fellow human in an innocent attempt to enlighten, and this was the immediate response. I'll leave the received facial expression up to your imagination; you're probably already familiar with it, anyway.

It is depressing to accept that I may not live to see the day when society opens it eyes.

[Bajeda]

Originally Posted by seechao

Well, SWIM will go out on a limb here, and suggest a few drugs that may be what your looking for, or may be way way off... but they are short acting, and in the use your suggesting, mostly without negative side effects.

SWIM's first, legal, suggestion would be salvia, salvia seems to be an astral bungee cord/cannon, definatly out of body, fast acting, and does not last very long at all, it also seems to be remarkably side effect free. There is alot of information available about it here, and on the web, and it is widely available.

DMT and 5-meo-DMT are also very short acting, but produce a very spiritual, awe inspiring experiance, these are amazing substances, that definatly take you out of your body, and should be looked into at the very least, but may not be the state of mind SWIY is looking for.

Lastly, Ketamin has been used to cause OBEs and is used medicaly at higher doses than required for inducing them. It could be considered very safe, occassional use by informed idividuals, is quite safe, but abuse and ignorance could turn it into something quite dangerous. SWIM suggests SWIY reads about it, however SWIM isnt sure if SWIY would be interested in it.

He is looking for something with non-hallucinogenic effects.

[tayo]

Brainwave Generators are available online, once SWIY has the program installed SWIY can generate hir own frequency patterns for intent, as well as download other presets that other more experienced users have created. Some presets are very effective, and have gotten SWIM into hypnagogic imagery as well as seeing waves of light in SWIMS vision. Once SWIM reached this state with BrainWaves SWIM was able to meditate into the seeing the light stage lying in bed focusing on the body disappearing and looking toward one's self from above. If SWIY does use a generator, you must use headphones for it to work, and search a search engine for "cymatic frequency listing" and a result will show SWIY a loooooong list of frequencies that the brain functions at while performing certain tasks... this you can use to emulate within the mind, or trick the mind into taking over the body, or at least making it easier to trascend into the same state of mind again. Once SWIY reaches the state of mind through brainwaves, without brainwaves the next time SWIY just needs to focus on the last experience, imagine reliving the memory of how it felt, breathe deep, focus on slowing your heartbeat, etc. These brainwaves will make you use all of your brain. The Monroe Institute charges thousands of dollars for this kind of BrainWave Entrainment programs, but one could essentially teach themselves the proper techniques if so inclined through the internet.... hope this helps, also the frequency that the mind works at when on LSD is 20.215 Hz, SWIM once did an experiment and had several subjects listen to the sound without knowing what it was except that it was brainwaves, all subjects start giggling with excitement, it was a very pleasing experiment. The subjects, after being told it was the LSD frequency, stopped laughing then. That frequency mimics a very slight beginning of the come-up of LSD, anxiety/giggling. Very fascinating! ALSO there are many presets that will BLOW YOUR MIND WHEN ON PSYCHEDELICS!!! ENHANCE THE TRIP TO THE FULLEST EXTENT.

[Lazarus]

SWIM has had much luck with opiates and meditation. DXM and Ketamine will also do the trick, but are less spiritual to SWIM. SWIM would probably go with opiates.

[coppersocks]

Different ways of OBE'ing are better for different people, I have done it a few times and it's nearly always been through sleep paralysis. I honestly think that drugs aren't the way to go on this one. What you need to do to perform a fully conscious OBE is have a totally relaxed body.
If I was you I would get up early in the morning, eariler than you would usually get up and do lots of excersize for a couple of hours, say running. Then have a good long relaxing shower and go lie down.
The reason I recommend this is because;
a: You're body will be good and tired from the excerise
b: Because it's midday or early afternoon and you got up early you're mind will be relativly awake, you make feel tired but because you're been up and active for a while you're mind won't feel like going to sleep even though you might.

This is honestly the best way to go about achieving an OBE without the aid of tapes or anything else, if you have the tapes then use them aswell. For some people, me for one, OBE's never, ever happen at night because my mind is so tired that it's to tired and/stressed to consentrate on leaving the body or I just fall asleep. I've only ever OBE'd in the afternoon or at a time when I wouldn't usually be asleep. Same with sleep paralysis, its much more common for me to get it after an afternoon nap or just after work (one time I was asleep on th couch and my sister was on the chair opposite and I had just woken up and I was stuck in SP and she could see my eyes open but I couldn't move or answer the question she was asking me; just a little anecdote, but anyway back on topic) SP and OBE are genreally linked though I'm not fully clued up on how.

Anyways try this method and post how it goes, the most in important factors are basically that its a time you wouldn't usually lie down and that your body feels tired and relaxed. Your mind should just be relaxed but not tired..

Good Luck

[T.K]

Best OBE SWIM has had was on Ketamine(a little hallucinogenic, very if you slip into a K-Hole). He was sitting in his friends room and he closed his eyes, next thing he knew he was floating half way down the street(his body was still in the room).

[fnord]

as many have already said what your probaly looking for (even though some would call it trippy) is something like dxm/ketamine.

[mybloopwentsplat]

I tried the swinging method last night but i was far too exhausted for it to work...
sometime before bed go to a playground and swing, whilst swinging close your eyes. Inhale when you go backwards, and exhale as you swing forwards. It is very important that you remember exactly how you feel.
Now when you lay down for bed regulate your breathing as you did on the swing. With each inhale remember how you felt while swinging backwards and with each exhale, forwards. This should work. I didnt even swing before bed but i imagined it with my breathing and it felt like i was swinging. Good luck and i hope you understand this...
PeAcE
ps. also check youtube for techniques

[mybloopwentsplat]

i think im going to start an astral thread soon look out for it. oh shyt what section should i put it in....