Other - Hallucinogens to Change Your Habits and Addictions

[RJeez]

Have you ever noticed that when you feel good,the hallucinations are good,or when you feel bad,the hallucinations are bad?Maybe the way you feel and the 'lucies are linked,or even one and the same thing.It is though a light has been picked up,shone "through" me,and I-the way I feel,is projected onto the "screens" of my senses.Wouldn't it be cool if I could change the lucies by changing myself,not just to change the lucies,but to change myself?

I'm not exactly sure how to do this,but I'm open to suggestion.Maybe when you see something you don't like,it evokes memories in you and makes you feel bad.Or if you see someone you like,you have good memories and you feel good.What I was thinking that by changing the way things make you feel,you could break some old habits,maybe drinking for instance,or if smoking dope has become a problem and you can't stop,changing the way you think about dope.But how do you change the way something or someone makes you feel-do you change what it means to you and how you see it,or do you change yourself?

Knowing yourself seems to be the key.If good lucies make you feel good because a "light" is shone thru you and you are projected as lucies,it seems logical that by knowing yourself,and your "components"(N.B.what you like,dislike,memories of them things,memory which is constantly being updated,i.e.you learn more about yourself when talking to someone you like because you are finding out what you like about them,because it is going straight into your memory,AND,more importantly,because you know you like that person DIRECTLY,not from your memory but because you are EXPERIENCING FIRST HAND,instead of as a memory of yourself,from the memory-or the Unconscious,in Jungian terms.)This is important,because to know yourself,you don't only know what you like,but you know what you like about yourself.If you are acting in a way that you don't like,then you aren't aware,dont know yourself,because if you were,then you would see that you don't like yourself,and you would act in a way you do like.This is the difference between good and bad tripping.If you know yourself,then you will know what you like,act accordingly,and the lucies projected "thru" you will be good.Not knowing yourself means that you don't know what you like,and you won't know how to act or be good and won't know if you are being bad,and the lucies projected from you will be bad.

Using stopping smoking dope for example,say you are tripping,and you see a cannabis plant.When you see it,it evokes memories and thoughts.Deep down you know you want to stop smoking but if you don't know yourself you won't know what you want,and the projected lucies from you might make the plant take the form(morph into)a "Death" figure,or grim reaper,as a way of compensating and make you WAKE UP TO YOURSELF.The reason I say "Death" is because to stop something could be seen in a wider context as Death,or,the death or END of something.Everyone fears or has something to say about death.People who fear death dont realise that when something dies something takes its place-hence religious people not fearing death.When seeing the plant and the hallucination,you may REALIZE what it is you really want,and you realise yourself.This realisation means that you have to realise that when something ends,or DIES,something takes its place...reborn...out of the ashes(or remains of your old habit)and is reborn.Upon realising,the meaning of smoking dope has changed,and the meaning of cannabis has changed.Your attitude has changed,YOU have changed,and the projected light/hallucinations from you will change-the hallucination of the grim reaper on the plant will change to reflect(and symbolise)the change within you,and the hallucination will take the form that reflects your change,and state of mind....perhaps the hallucination of the grim reaper will dissolve,melt away,and change into....a phoenix-something that symbolises the change in yoursel perhaps,forexample.)Any thoughts?

Reputation Comments on this post:

Brilliant perspective on hallucinations

[~lostgurl~]

The changes and self awareness SWIY talks about gaining from hulucinogens can also be gained from different therapies and techniques (from what SWIM has read anyway) hypnosis, meditation, cognitive behavioural therapy, rational emotive therapy, spiritual growth, psychotherapy.... SWIM has tried a few of these with no success.

SWIM is finding SWIY's posts interesting as she has only halucinated twice in her life, once on mushrooms and once on acid. Both experiences were awful (putting it mildly). But going from SWIY's hypothesis on this, SWIM must not know herself. SWIM thinks this could be true but what comes first: knowing swimself so that swim can experience a good trip and know herself more, or experiencing a good trip and getting to know herself?

[RJeez]

Good question!You have to be careful here,because you can go into a vicious circle,into yourself.To be honest,I don't really know how to put it.I was thinking,that by talking to someone,maybe the opposite sex of yourself,the anima in men and the animus in women,you get to know,from or thru that person,the feminine/masculine aspect or archetype of yourself,and only by being yourself naturally(in a way that you like,remember,you only know yourself if you know what you like,so why would you behave in a way that you don't like?)will the light shine thru you and project your true self.(That person,man/woman,is a direct expression of the masculine or feminine aspect that is deep inside you,unconscious to you.You can only get to know that aspect inside you by "surrendering" to its expression projected outside of you.)That way,you are being yourself,AND seeing yourself,and,the two are one.Think zen.I think this needs further thought and explaining.

I think what it needs is to experience yourself directly,zen style...NEUTRALLY,instead of as an idea of yourself-that you either like or dislike from the memory.Remember,stuff is going into your memory right now,as we speak,and that is how you know wether you like something or not,when you are not conscious of yourself that is.That also includes how you experience yourself-it is though we are "trapped inside the psychological meaning" of stuff,and ourselves,and this is projected out into the world.Instead of experiencing yourself like this,what would it be like to experience yourself first hand?Actually,that has made me realise. . . .knowing yourself makes a good trip or a good trip helps you to know yourself-which one first?REALISATION,of yourself will(possibly!)get you out of this vicious circle,and realisation is more than a psychological thing,it is a spiritual thing.

(By the way,people seem to have a hard time believing that mythological hallucinations are possible.They are VERY possible with liberty caps.Terence Mckenna mentioned a "heroic dose."He didn't mean it as a macho thing,but a dose that will get you to the mythological or heroic level.When SWIM was in his teens and twenties,it was common for SWIM and friends to take a dose of at least 100 to 300/400 liberty caps,and then sniffing amyl nitrate(to dilate the blood vessels and increase the flow of blood with all that hallucinogenic goodness in it-it's like a fuel injection to your head).To reach the mythological level,you need at least 100 libert caps-it is like a critical mass.Any less than 100,and you have to try and hallucinate,by staring.A proper trip means that the lucies are just there.By the way,for some strange reason,it doesn't (seem to)work on acid.Don't know why.

[~lostgurl~]

How would swim obtain realisation of herself? About once a year swim gets a realisation, she thinks she finally understands why she does what she does and why she thinks how she thinks, and after each "realisation" swim thinks life will somehow be easier. Then about a year later swim will have a new realisation that blows her last one out of the water. Shes come to accept the fact that nothing is what it seems, and that her realisations are not real at all. The more she knows the more she thinks there is to know, and things dont get easier but more complicated and intricate. Swim thinks this is all normal and that no one ever truly knows themself. But swim is bipolar so her perception of herself and of others has been skewed since day 1.

[RJeez]

Believe me lostgurl,I have the same problem with realisation.It seems that we are inside a vicious circle-you have to realise that you need to realise.So,where do you start?By realising!It is a spiritual thing,and logic no longer applies.I think you could realise by,say for example,you know when you feel guilty and you overcompensate?Well,maybe,instead of sucking up to that person,you should take a different approach,by acting in a way that is sincere,acting as an external thing and expression of what you really feel internally.Instead of hiding your guilt with "gifts",confessing and expressing maybe-eating humble pie.And everyone knows how hard it is to eat humble pie-nearly as hard as realisation.Hmmmm.....(I do know that by realising that you can reach the ultimate realisation of yourself,and have a really cool experience.)

Also,when you know a person,you are REcognising them(RE cognition OF,from WHERE?Yourself?Do you like them?No?Maybe you don't like something in yourself.Just a thought.)

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM's name is ringing true right now, she's totally lost! Has SWIY got another example? SWIM actually had her last realisation yesterday, she then bounced a whole lot of ideas off her mum, who totally got where swim was coming from, now if her latest realisation proves to be as real as it feels right now then maybe swim will find a way to use this new found knowledge to change core aspects of her thought processes (emotional to rational) Ah, she lives in hope!

[RJeez]

Actually,lostgurl,to really know yourself,you have to be complete,and know yourself,warts and all.Dreams are symbolic of what you dont want to know,the warts,and they are a balancing factor.To interpret dreams,take a dream,and an image from it,and then "amplify" it by attaching all the associations you can to it.But don't free-associate.That is,don't think of an association then associate something to the association-STICK WITH THE IMAGE.All you are doing is expanding the meaning until you realise that the dream IS the meaning,and that the associations come from the essence of the dream.When you realise that the associations have a sort of theme running thru all of them,you will realise that the image encapsulates the meaning or interpretation,(and you can piece the images together and get the meaning of the dream,the dream encapsualating the essence or meaning.)YOU GET THE MEANING FIRST IN ORDER TO CAPTURE ITS ESSENCE,symbolised BY DREAM.(F'IN THING WONT TURN OFF!)I find that when I'm stuck in the above mentioned vicious circle,dream interpretation tells me WHY I want to realise by telling me about me warts and all,and seeing myself in a different light.The psychological meanings of things-and myself- that I am trapped in change.

And if you can,say you have a dream with a queen,king,Darth Vader in it(something not self applicable or no prior knowledge of)...a universal or mythological motif or archetype,look them up,and you will see the meaning in a more wider and universal context.Look up Carl Jung.

[~lostgurl~]

SWIM only dreams when she naps during the day, never at night (most likely due to sleeping pills). Swim's sleep during the day is usally very broken and not very deep and one of two things happen, either she doesn't remember the dream for more than a few minutes after waking up, or her dreams are almost lucid where she is in her favourite tv show, but its not a show in her dream its real (as in she is not suddenly an actor lol) There is usually a lot of action, chases and near death experiences, but swim has control of how things turn out, the dreams are exciting rather than scary. If swim wakes up in the middle of a dream she usually rolls over and goes back to sleep with full intentions of finishing the scene from her last dream. SWIM never sees mythical creatures or anything like that, even though there are some on the show swim watches. This thread has gone off topic a bit..... so to refocus, is there any 100% fullproof way of experiencing a good trip using any halucinogen? Swim knows there are things that can be done to increase the chances, but are there any halucinogens that guarantee a good trip every time?

[chAos]

Originally Posted by ~lostgurl~

so to refocus, is there any 100% fullproof way of experiencing a good trip using any halucinogen? Swim knows there are things that can be done to increase the chances, but are there any halucinogens that guarantee a good trip every time?

There really are no guarantees when using psychedelics , but swim thinks that when swiy is free of worries and in a comfortable setting with some good friends, the chances of a bad experience on mushrooms are small. Other people will probably say other psychedelics are less likely to give a bad experience, but a good set and setting and a low dose to try it out are always the key .

[dogzz]

There are NO guarantees for a good trip on ANY substance. It seems to swim that all trips begin and end with where one's head is at, and the surrounding environment
Being around people that makes one uncomfortable, or in a location that breeds even the slightest amount of malcontent can easily lead the trip down an unenjoyable path.
Swim also feels that if swiy is looking for their path, should not let every little bump or rut in that path throw you off. Life would be so simple if it was all black or white, but it isn't. Very little is that clear, life is not only grey, but millions of colors. It is easy to get so caught up looking at our failures, searching for the answers to fix them that we get lost. you know, like the old saying "can't see the forest, for the trees"
Relax, believe in yourself, know that in all trips, good and bad, they brought you to where you are now. It sounds very cliche' but, there is good to be found in all bad things that happen, So... if swiy can control your dreams, swiy can do the same with your trips, just relax and enjoy . you might enjoy all the color..... even if it scares you.
As to changing our habits and/or addictions? For a lot of people, having really good trips would just cause another addiction, after all, isn't that what the addict craves? being taken to anywhere but the real and now? Swim does think that for a non-addictive type person, the ability to have a different perception of things can be good. It is very easy for views and thoughts to get in a rut. Getting outside the box "so to speak" can lead to new things. Some of the greatest minds in history were known to "dabble" in mind altering goodies, however, the "goodies" are NOT what their lives were all about.

[RJeez]

It is true that guarantee of a good trip isn't assured.But it does seem logical that you have a good or bad trip for a reason,and that is what I am suggesting here,that by sharing experiences and knowledge we may find the right "direction",at least.Like chaos said,that when SWIY is free of worries and in a comfortable setting,the chances of a bad mushy trip are small.The thing is,that I sincerely think that by knowing yourself you can have-albeit INdirect,affect on the trip,because you are the cause of a good or bad trip.Think,who or what is the trip affecting?And,is it the hallucinations that freak you out,or are you freaking yourself out?("objective"/object and "subjectively"/subject respectivley)Put simply,it is you that is freaking out(as in being scared/frightened.)Like the analogy above,the "light" is "shining thru you".You are at the centr of your universe.

We are always learning about ourselves,new stuff,what we like,dislike.Can you say now wether you like something you have never experienced,or something you may experience for the first time?We might not be able to for definate that we do know,but we can know ourselves,and increase that awareness.We are constantly evolving and maturing,and this can be aided or accelerated by psychology or by tripping.That is what a trip is,witnessing yourself maturing at an accelerated rate,which accounts for the hallucinations,because the rate of our self awareness is going faster than it is supposed to do,and the hallucinations are the result of this discrepancy.Imagine the frames of a film being speeded up,with the senses staying at the same fixed rate and you'll get the idea.Analysisng yourself speeds up this process too,because by analysing,what you are doing in effect is thinking about yourself WITHOUT "turning back",or repressing/denying the truth about yourself.

Lostgurl,you asked me about realisation,how and why it happens.Well,the best way that I can explain it(for now)is The Law Of Opposites.Everything-good,bad, has its logical opposite,particularly states of mind,and they are always present(both opposites,I mean)but we are only conscious of one,and unconscious of the other.How can something good also be bad?Well good also has inherent bad,but the bad isn't fully conscious(or unconscious)Something good inherently carries with it the fear of losing it-that's bad.And the better something is,the greater the fear.For example,if you deny the positive aspect of the "iner child" aspect(archetype) of yourself,you become only conscious of the negative aspect ,but because you are denying the positive aspect you will be unaware that you are behaving in a negative way,or unaware that you are acting according to the way that you are,that being in a negative child like manner,i.e.childish.This affects the way you see the world,because you will see thru the eyes of the negative child(unconscious of the positive aspect.)

This means that to realise that you are acting in such a way that you have to be mature,which is a paradox-a "child" acting mature.(In psychology,this is called the Transcendant Function.)Another example,a person who is a liar,a dishonest person has to be honest for him to progress.Your child aspect is innocent,unbiased,trusting.You might see yourself as all these things when in fact you are not,because the "inocence" you are experiencing is not innocent,because like a child,you are unaware of the logical opposite,because you are innocent. . . of the knowledge that you are acting in a child like way.Realising this brings the opposites together and "neutralises" them.This means that the child aspect becomes aware to you,and you do not act according to it-in a negative way-you become conscious of yourSELF and its "aspects",or the archetypes(within you)This is the psychological explanation of "realisation."If "unconscious" of one opposite when tripping,the hallucinations will take a compensatory form.They will be negative,because the light shined thru the "negative" you will result in negative hallucinations as a way of making you realise.They are percieved negatively because you see them thru negative eyes.If they freak you out,you know that something inside isn't right.This is a neurosis,and what isn't commonly realised is that neuroses are in fact beneficial,because it is the minds way of correcting itself,or,Self-Regulation of The Psyche,the minds way of telling itself that something is wrong(with consciousness.)This is a natural thing and is always happening.The psyche is never negative,but it(the psyche,and consciousness)is always neutral.It doesn't make any difference to the unconscious if you see things negatively,SUBJECTIVELY,because the psyche just . . . "is",and it is up to you wether to "keep up with" the mind or not-it will carry on regardlessly(No time left!)"Keeping up" with the unconscious is called individuation,and is a process of maturing your self awareness at an accelerated rate,thru a process of realisation.

Just to finish,I think(to lostgurl)that the interpretation of a dream is in fact the unconscious opposite-that will make you realise and bring opposites togethet,and vice versa.Have to go,so some of this is rushed and I will brush up mistakes,or incorrect assumptions again.Bye!

[dogzz]

Brush up RJ? you said it very well.

[RJeez]

I'm just throwing ideas in the air,and maybe I didn't explain them very well.It is a complicated explanation of a simple natural thing,but it isn't a method.But why shouldn't this sort of thing(why we hallucinate,what we hallucinate,where they come from,and how they affect behaviour)be studied?The only other place that I know of looking into it is the Hoffman Foundation,and if they don't know what they are doing then I don't know who is!And,what is meditation?A whole religion is based around a method of realisation.

And they do seem to work for me.Alchemy isn't about making actual gold,it is changing the base lead state of the mind to a golden one,they are only symbols,and that is what mushrooms do isn't it-change your state of mind?But more important than that is who it is happening TO-THAT is what I am after.I think you have missed my point.

If you have your own ideas or disagree then explain them-what do you know?I would love to hear them.(Sometimes I wish I could be proved wrong,but no one seems to be doing that ,if it is possible with psyche matters.)Let's agree to disagree dogzz.But don't just shoot me down from the sidelines,explain yourself.(By the way,Dogzz,you're not into Freud,are you?Because I had never heard of Jung when I thought of these things,and when I did,I realised that my thoughts were not new,and that analytical psychology comes directly from the experience,not vice versa).

Craving isn't good,I agree,but to want the best,even out of the bad stuff is a good thing,in fact that is human nature.Even wars come back eventually to the heart in the desire,even if it is a misguided one.There is a word for good coming out of bad,I think it is enantiadromia.

Look up The Hoffman Fondation,then Science,then Science and Technology,then The Myron website,then The Secret Chief.Again on th Hoffman site,Reviews,then Befriending the Unconscious.