Drug info - Diphenyl-2-Pyrrolidinyl-Methanol (diphenyl prolinol)

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by lulz

But since D2PM has a higher affinity for DAT, wouldn't the lower success rate be compensated for at least partially if large enough doses were taken?

In practice, this is in fact the case. (P.S. SWIM is new here and hasn't introduced himself. He can't offer his credentials at this point, although this may become possible in the mid to long term. He's been researching chemicals for a long time, that's all he can say. If his views end up being unwanted, he will stop posting in this forum. Thanks for reading).

[NeonCortex]

If you like long lasting stimulant DATI's you should turn your interest to desoxypipradrol. It leaves 2-benzhydrolpyrrolidine weeping in the dust, I believe.

[NeonCortex]

Several cases of high dose indulgence with this drug are known. I believe a majority of these cases ended up in hospital.

Please don't push the doses in the quest for euphoria with this chemical.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by NeonCortex

Several cases of high dose indulgence with this drug are known. I believe a majority of these cases ended up in hospital. Please don't push the doses in the quest for euphoria with this chemical.

Interesting... can SWIY provide references? If true, this comes as no surprise... what would be surprising is if there were only several known cases. SWIM tells me this sort of thing should be very common in cases of recreational use of this substance. Unfortunately, asking "please don't" doesn't carry the same weight as dopamine receptors demanding "do it now."

Originally Posted by bob_arctor

Even up to several grams in one case if remembered correctly. Very tragic expression of the lack of critical thinking in the youth of today.

It would be nice if it were really that simple. ISO the tendency to overdose and/or binge eternally is in the nature of this particular substance, at least if recreational effects are the goal being sought. It's amazingly deceptive, as noted by numerous "this stuff does almost nothing" reports.

[snapper]

What doses caused someone to be hospitalized and what happened ?

[NeonCortex]

They were totally stupid, humongous doses. Can't remember them all, but they were in the hundred of milligrams up to gram scale. They had to have continous IV tranquilizers for a few days, basically.

[bob_arctor]

Even up to several grams in one case if remembered correctly. Very tragic expression of the lack of critical thinking in the youth of today. Standard but depressing.

[Alfa]

More experiences with this compound?
What are the side effects of this compound?

I've been promised a write up of experience reports in the range of 60-200 mg Diphenyl-2-Pyrrolidinyl-Methanol.

[Nagognog2]

Probably for the reasons noted above: Desiring to keep taking more and increasing the dose higher and highr. Then there is a little matter of duration of effects...

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Dopamine isn't SWIM's area of expertise; are there other dopamine agonist/antagonists, particularly anything actually in use? It could be the whole concept is fatally flawed. It seems likely antagonism would result in a sense of desperate frustration, while the agonism continued the pursuit. It's hard to imagine a worse combination, unless timing was the critical factor. In other words, which came first, and when.

[NeonCortex]

There are lots of dopamine agonists and antagonists in use. More relevant to this case, there are also several dopamine reuptake inhibitors in use. Drugs for parkinsons, depression, adhd, narcolepsy, psychosis, etc.

What do you mean by "verifiable data"? The data on overdoses I and Arctor presented are very real. It happened just after a vendor started selling this compound cheaply. The "data" is not in some kind of journal, hence no reference.

ISO's opinion is that this substance's only use as a psychoactive is for alertness - in proper dosages, not as an euphoriant. It is a dead end when it comes to euphoric stimulation.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by NeonCortex

There are lots of dopamine agonists and antagonists in use. More relevant to this case, there are also several dopamine reuptake inhibitors in use. Drugs for parkinsons, depression, adhd, narcolepsy, psychosis, etc.

I meant combination agonist/antagonists. Substances that have both properties simultaneously, as in opiate receptor examples like buprenorphine.

What do you mean by "verifiable"? The data on overdoses I and Arctor presented are very real. It happened just after a vendor started selling this compound cheaply. The "data" is not in some kind of journal, hence no reference.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest your data wasn't real, merely that I hadn't seen it. It does in fact come across as likely outcome for this substance, as I previously stated.

ISO's opinion is that this substance's only use as a psychoactive is for alertness - in proper dosages, not as an euphoriant. It is a dead end when it comes to euphoric stimulation.

If there isn't any 'push' or tendency toward gradual dosage increases and eventual addiction, SWIM agrees... otherwise it could be considered a dead end there too, unless discipline on the part of the user is presupposed (pardon the negativism, but SWIM hasn't found this quality to be common in his fellow human beings). As far as being a dead end in terms of euphoric stimulation, unless the user were willing to accept a high degree of risk, SWIM concurs.

Originally Posted by Alfa

Note that he took close to a gram of Dipenyl-2-Prrolidinyl-methanol in 5 days and quantities of the desoxypipradol analog had also been taken around that period.

Given various uncertainties (body weight, method of admin, etc) ~1g in 5 days strikes SWIM as pushing the borderline of safety issues but not necessarily going over. If it involved no sleep or food in 5 days, never mind... that complicates the matter beyond any rational analysis.

[snapper]

That's what SWIM meant - the data is a testimonial. Not much is known about the safety and dosing of this drug, so any specific information, even involving overdoses, is useful to the community at large.
SWIM agrees that this product is significantly euphoric. However, what is the ideal stimulant dose, what might occur in combination with other products and with different routes of administration has yet to be established. Any information is potentially useful...

[snapper]

Most receptor binding involves some degree of antagonism. It depends on how long the molecule is bound in the receptor site and how much it activates the receptor when bound to it. Reuptake mechanisms can be similarly considered.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Out of curiosity, has anyone considered some simple experiments actually involving a rat or other small rodent: e.g. two water supplies, one with the compound added in the proper mg/kg ratio, one without. Then observing if the animal tends to choose the water source containing D-2-P-M, and if so how often and in what amounts? This would be an experiment any layman could perform, given access to a pet-store. Even under uncontrolled conditions, it would be interesting to hear the results of such an experiment. Dopamine reuptake inhibition typically involves compulsivity, and the animal's behavior might provide a rough estimate how compulsive this substance is and whether a tendency to overdose really is in the nature of the substance or just related to human beings seeking something it doesn't provide.

[snapper]

Hmm. Maybe that's what SWIM could do with the rest. Sounds more useful than flushing it. SWIM also concurs, but with a different ratio - 1/3 hint of good dopamine effects, 2/3 cracked out like drinking too much coffee and feeling vaguely ill. Too bad, but you never know until you try. SWIM wants MDPV back. Why mess with a good thing ?

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by snapper

Hmm. Maybe that's what SWIM could do with the rest. Sounds more useful than flushing it.

SWIM has none in possession; he's not using a figure of speech here, he really does have a buddy who has been relaying information on his request. SWIM has been either interested in or involved with research chemicals for over ten years, and chats with lots of folks on a regular basis. A friend recently got interested and acquired some Di2PyMeth, but does not want to bother signing up here.

SWIM also concurs, but with a different ratio - 1/3 hint of good dopamine effects, 2/3 cracked out like drinking too much coffee and feeling vaguely ill. Too bad, but you never know until you try. SWIM wants MDPV back. Why mess with a good thing ?

MDPV strikes SWIM as generally safer and more effective than diphenyl prolinol, no doubt about it. Its only serious issue seems to be a level of compulsivity akin to slavery (SWIM is talking regular use here of course), but there's a lot of variation in how people react to and deal with this. Some are less affected than others, and a very few claim to be entirely unaffected, or able to easily overcome it using "will-power." At this point, SWIM is reserving judgment on the claims of this tiny minority due to insufficient data.

Postscript: the "cracked out" feeling can be ameliorated somewhat through the judicious and careful use of CNS depressants, although SWIY was probably already aware of this .

[Alfa]

Something tells me smoking this is not the wisest of ideas.

[Bio-Cellular Enigma]

Originally Posted by Alfa

Something tells me smoking this is not the wisest of ideas.

SWIM believes that's particularly true until someone posts about what's happening in the chemical reaction he mentioned, and what the resulting end product really is. SWIM is not up enough on chemistry to know if what's happening is a salt being converted to a base (ala cocaine to crack) or something else entirely.


Even if it were D2PM free base, SWIM doesn't know if it would vaporize, break down (which at best would waste product, at worst be inhaling some unknown chemical doing who knows what) or some combination of the two. He does strongly suspect there's at least some D2PM in the smoke.

It would help greatly as well to know if the smoke is toxic to the lungs (more accurately, too toxic to be worth it)... even if it were purely vaporized D2PM, the stuff is too irritating to be snorted, so it could possibly be harmful if inhaled.

If all that were figured out and found to be safe, SWIM thinks it would probably be OK (insofar as smoking stimulants ever would be anyway).

Originally Posted by snapper

It is one thing to vaporize something known to not degrade (DMT, DPT,etc), but with a complete unknown, it really is gambling with one's wellbeing.

Fwiw, ingesting D2PM at all may be gambing with one's well-being. This was the one tested for use in treating cocaine addicts, correct? If so, he's wondering if anyone knows for sure why it was rejected and not released as a pharmaceutical drug. If not, it is an unknown quantity itself, never mind the smoke.

Supposing it were originally meant for cocaine withdrawal and withdrawn for reasons other than health, SWIM has seen a few accounts floating around of addictive behavior with this substance, which depending on a lot of factors could be very toxic; e.g. large amounts ingested harming various organs.

Anyway, SWIM is not saying this makes smoking it a good idea, just that taking it at all is likely not a good idea and should be limited to risk-takers willing to sacrifice their health. Smoking it may be worse, and given the fragile nature of the lungs and fairly common fact of toxins showing up in smoke he agrees nobody should do it until some basics are known.

[snapper]

SWIM thinks smoking most compounds is not wise. SWIM knows people smoke things like meth and freebase, but these people do do damage to their lungs. It is one thing to vaporize something known to not degrade (DMT, DPT,etc), but with a complete unknown, it really is gambling with one's wellbeing. Sometimes experimenting can have dramatic consequences. SWIM wholeheartedly agrees with Alfa.
Interesting research BioCellular Enigma, but someSWIM needs to analyze this stuff after vaporization and same with MDPV, before SWIM would even consider vaporization.

[enquirewithin]

This is something that will remain locked away in SWIM's cupboard forever, it seems!

[toe]

Why? Did your monkey swallow the key?

[radiometer]

Why? Same reason SWIMs stash will remain untouched - it sounds like utterly worthless material.

[enquirewithin]

Right! Nothing in this thread makes it sound worth investigating....

[bigfish1980]

Wow this is an intersting RC. Does someone know if this RC is legal in the United States??? Swim would like to know.