Any recomendations?

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM wants to try a legal or herbal high that is slightly like a trip but has an opiate and painkilling effect aswell.What combinations of substances alone would achieve this state best?

[Riconoen {UGC}]

Maybe combining LSA and Kratom.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM has read that lsa has a rather unpleasant body high and can cause nausea.It does sound rather interesting though aswell and with the amount of morning glories here would not be hard to come by.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

LSA itself doesn't cause much nausea, it's mainly the weak toxins in the seed itself, SWIM suggests extracting it, and then smoking something like kava

[Forthesevenlakes]

Kratom would probably be the best bet for the opiate/painkilling effect. However, keep in mind that kratom binds (among other things) mu-opioid receptors, so if SWIY has a tolerance for opiates, kratom will not be quite as effective in its analgesic/opiate euphoria effect. SWIM had a high tolerance to opiates when he first tried kratom, and it felt like 150 mg of tramadol to him, theres a definite stimulatory component to the drug as well, which now that SWIM thinks about it might be cause for some caution when combining it with hallucinogens, such as morning glory seeds/LSA. Now, SWIM doesnt know what exactly causes the stimulation from kratom, but he suspects some serotonin action with one of the active components of the plant. Hard to explain but the stimulation feels like the SSRI-mediated stimulation of tramadol, so SWIM thinks that this MIGHT be what's going on here. Now, since this is a possibility, SWIM would really urge caution on mixing kratom with LSA or other serotonin receptor-binding drugs.

SWIM is not totally sure that kratom does have action at the serotonin receptors though, it may be a wise choice to do some research on this site and erowid, look up trip reports to see if anyone has mixed kratom with hallucinogens, and how it treated them. If its safe, kratom + LSA as suggested above may be more or less what SWIY wants. SWIM is sure that other, more ethno-savvy members will have good suggestions for SWIY too!

[Nicaine]

Originally Posted by Forthesevenlakes

SWIM had a high tolerance to opiates when he first tried kratom, and it felt like 150 mg of tramadol to him, theres a definite stimulatory component to the drug as well, which now that SWIM thinks about it might be cause for some caution when combining it with hallucinogens, such as morning glory seeds/LSA. Now, SWIM doesnt know what exactly causes the stimulation from kratom, but he suspects some serotonin action with one of the active components of the plant. Hard to explain but the stimulation feels like the SSRI-mediated stimulation of tramadol, so SWIM thinks that this MIGHT be what's going on here.

SWIM has been on SSRI's, has used Tramadol, and also used kratom heavily for over a year. In his opinion it's very VERY doubtful that kratom's stimulating effects are related to serotonin.

In fact, he would swear in front of a judge in a court of law that there's no relation whatsoever. Norepinephrine perhaps, serotonin NO. It just doesn't feel serotonin-mediated to SWIM in the slightest, and he's intimately familiar with how reuptake inhibition of various neurotransmitters makes him feel.

That said, kratom can definitely have an edge to it -- enough so that it's best not combined with stimulants (can provoke panic/anxiety reactions).

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM would much rather try lsa and kratom than combining kava with them,SWIM has a fear of kava and liver damage.Though now it sounds like SWIM is going to have to do a little research regarding the safety of lsa and kratom.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

To be honest, SWISchaivo has no experince with kava anyway so listen to the others. And SWIM thinks it should work fine, as long as you keep the dose of LSA low (if it's extracted), because they operate at diferent receptors.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM usually will for the lowest dose possible when trying new and un tried substances,it's really the safest path he has found.Ofcourse a few times in his younger years he didn't go by this rule and ended up in some odd or bad situations.I've yet to find anything regarding the safety of lsa and kratom so it does sound like it might be an interesting new experiences for SWIM.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

I think Alfa has some experience with LSA gone terribly wrong, and beware of constipation from the kratom.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

I read most the lsa experiences on erowid and it was a largely mixed bag with some reporting beautiful and enlightening experiences,others wracked with pain and nausea and bad trips,yet others that got almost no effects(though I assume that is from either too little lsa or the wrong extraction methods),SWIM figures trying it once can't hurt that much though.The lsa is more a passing curiosity for him but kratom is something that could have much more value when dealing with opiate withdrawals for SWIM.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

SWIM personally doesn't reccomend the seeds, horrid taste and a bad stomach pain. See if SWIY or SWISomeone you know can extract it.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Do the stomach pains from the seeds come from the seeds themselves or any chemical additives that were on or in the seeds?

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

That reminds me, make ABSOLUTELY SURE that the seeds are organic, additive/pesticide free, because that can kill you, but it will say on the package, as it's required by law.

But the stomach ache is from the natural toxins in the seeds themselves, so no real worries.

Reputation Comments on this post:

not a bad answer

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM planned on using the seeds from the actual morning glories growing at a friends house,no toxins on those.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

Extracting or just plain? Plain works alright, it can just be "very uncomfortable" at times, but that should pass within an hour or so (did for me)

[Orchid_Suspiria]

SWIM plans on extracting,it sounds more comfortable.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

the only bad things swim has had with lsa is some leg cramps that were quelled with some aleve. other than that it was a very enlightening experience.

[Orchid_Suspiria]

Is lsa markedly different from lsd or just different in minor ways,I have heard various opinions on this.Some say lsa even has a slightly sedative feel.

[Riconoen {UGC}]

LSA has some sedative effects, and has much less pronounced visuals then it's cousin. Mostly just brighter colors and CEV's. and much more of a body load from what swim's heard.

[Pinkavvy]

LSA has more body high and is quite a sedative and not nearly as euphoric... though can still be a spiritual experience.

[pankreeas]

When someone who isn't you chomped them you mean right?

swim experienced the body aspect of lsa, but thinks combining Kratom would spoil it for him as the itchiness would kill the nice body high.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

Originally Posted by pankreeas

When someone who isn't you chomped them you mean right?

Is chomping morning glories illegal? SWIM was unaware.

[pankreeas]

Yes well technically most rc's people ingest are completely legal as well. It's just good practice, especially for a newer member to get into the habit of covering your bases.

[Zombie_Terri_Schaivo]

Okay, SWIM'll try to use SWIM on every reference to SWIM from now on.