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  #1  
Old 10-02-2007, 01:23
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Hello everybody!

("Hi, Dr. Nick!")

SWIM is compiling information for a sticky thread in the opiates section about the risks, dangers, and things to avoid when shooting pills. There has been alot of requests for information lately along the lines of if percocet or other APAP (tylenol) containing pills are safe to inject with a CWE. To SWIM's knowledge there is no completely safe way to do this. SWIM has been looking for information on the ACTUAL dangers associated with shooting acetaminophen, but is having some trouble finding any on the internet.

So, if anyone out there can provide some good info on why, exactly, IVing a pill with acetaminophen is dangerous, please post it here!

Also, SWIM is digging up info on why IVing pills is dangerous, so any information about that should be posted too.

Thanks for your help, hopefully we can make this into a good resource that will help minimize harm when using IV drugs.

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Hell yeah! Good to see some things never change...!
Nice thread, i thought it's about time i started giving out some rep points.

Last edited by MrJim; 26-04-2007 at 19:46.
  #2  
Old 10-02-2007, 01:40
Forthesevenlakes Forthesevenlakes is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

To start with, here's part of a case study that deals with an individual who was injecting hydrocodone and codeine containing pills with acetaminophen in it. This person was not using a cold water extraction (CWE) to remove the acetaminophen. Keep in mind this is a case study, and may not represent the most common dangers of injecting pills, but it is useful in that it shows some potential dangers of injecting without attempting to remove acetaminophen as well as other binders in pills. The full case study can be found here.

" Clinically, individuals who crush oral medications and inject them intravenously (or through a central port, as in this case) can develop a multinodular pattern on chest radiograph and chest CT that can be associated with a progressive decline in PFTs. Repeated insults can lead to dyspnea, pulmonary hypertension, and death. Proving this diagnosis may be a challenge in a patient who is legitimately prescribed narcotics for pain but adamantly denies intravenous drug abuse. Although crystalline material has been reported from precipitation of total parenteral nutrition fluid components, recognition of characteristic histologic features of oral-tablet constituents such as microcrystalline cellulose and povidone on a lung biopsy specimen leads to a definitive diagnosis."
  #3  
Old 11-02-2007, 01:43
Dr.Jones Dr.Jones is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

Here is what is required for a safe IV. You can't correctly prepare apap for IV by yourself just like you can't put keif in a spoon and slam it. Look further down for Phlebitis


Intravenous drip

An intravenous drip is the continuous infusion of fluids, with or without medications, through an IV access device. This may be to correct dehydration or an electrolyte imbalance, to deliver medications, or for blood transfusion.

IV fluids

There are two types of fluids that are used for intravenous drips; crystalloids and colloids. Crystalloids are aqueous solutions of mineral salts or other water-soluble molecules. Colloids contain larger insoluble molecules, such as gelatin; blood itself is a colloid.
The most commonly used crystalloid fluid is normal saline, a solution of sodium chloride at 0.9% concentration, which is close to the concentration in the blood (isotonic). Ringer's lactate or Ringer's acetate (ASERING, patented brandname of Otsuka Indonesia) is another isotonic solution often used for large-volume fluid replacement. A solution of 5% dextrose in water, sometimes called D5W, is often used instead if the patient is at risk for having low blood sugar or high sodium. The choice of fluids may also depend on the chemical properties of the medications being given.
Intravenous fluids must always be sterile.
Composition of Common Crystalloid SolutionsSolutionOther Name[Na+][Cl-][Glucose]D5W5% Dextrose002522/3D & 1/3S3.3% Dextrose / 0.3% saline5151168Half-normal saline0.45% NaCl77770Normal saline0.9% NaCl1541540Ringer's lactateLactated Ringer1301090
Ringer's lactate also has 28 mmol/L lactate, 4 mmol/L K+ and 3 mmol/L Ca2+. Ringer's acetate (ASERING) also has 28 mmol/L acetate, 4 mmol/L K+ and 3 mmol/L Ca2+.
Effect of Adding One LitreSolutionChange in ECFChange in ICFD5W333 mL667 mL2/3D & 1/3S556 mL444 mLHalf-normal saline667 mL333 mLNormal saline1000 mL0 mLRinger's lactate900 mL100 mL

Infusion equipment

A standard IV infusion set consists of a pre-filled, sterile container (glass bottle, plastic bottle or plastic bag) of fluids with an attached drip chamber which allows the fluid to flow one drop at a time, making it easy to see the flow rate (and also reducing air bubbles); a long sterile tube with a clamp to regulate or stop the flow; a connector to attach to the access device; and connectors to allow "piggybacking" of another infusion set onto the same line, e.g., adding a dose of antibiotics to a continuous fluid drip.

Last edited by Alfa; 10-08-2010 at 00:20.
  #4  
Old 11-02-2007, 01:43
Dr.Jones Dr.Jones is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

Risks of intravenous therapy
Intravenous therapy has many risks and should therefore only be performed by trained personnel under medical supervision, using proper equipment.

Infection

Any break in the skin carries a risk of infection. Although IV insertion is a sterile procedure, skin-dwelling organisms such as Coagulase-negative Staphylococcus or Candida albicans may enter through the insertion site around the catheter, or bacteria may be accidentally introduced inside the catheter from contaminated equipment. Moisture introduced to unprotected IV sites through washing or bathing substantially increases the infection risks.
Infection of IV sites is usually local, causing easily visible swelling, redness, and fever. If bacteria do not remain in one area but spread through the bloodstream, the infection is called septicemia and can be rapid and life-threatening. An infected central IV poses a higher risk of septicemia, as it can deliver bacteria directly into the central circulation.

Phlebitis

Phlebitis is irritation of a vein that is not caused by infection, but from the mere presence of a foreign body (the IV catheter) or the fluids or medication being given. Symptoms are swelling, pain, and redness around the vein. It does not necessarily mean the IV device must be removed; warmth, elevation of the affected limb, or a change in the rate of flow may resolve the symptoms.
Due to frequent injections and recurring phlebitis, the peripheral veins of intravenous drug addicts, and of cancer patients undergoing chemotherapy, become hardened and difficult to access over time.

Infiltration

This occurs when the tip of the IV catheter withdraws from the vein or pokes through the vein into surrounding tissue, or when the vein's wall becomes permeable and leaks fluid (in this instance it is said that the cannula has 'tissued'). It occurs frequently with peripheral IVs, and requires replacement of the IV at a different location. The symptoms of pain and swelling are temporary and not dangerous, unless giving a highly irritating medication, such intravenous contrast or amiodarone. Additionally it can become dangerous if the person monitoring the IV site fails to recognize that an infiltration has occurred and fluid continues to drip in the tissue under the skin. It can cause a compression injury. This known as an infiltration injury.

Fluid overload

This occurs when fluids are given at a higher rate or in a larger volume than the system can absorb or excrete. Possible consequences include hypertension, heart failure, and pulmonary edema.

Electrolyte imbalance

Administering a too-dilute or too-concentrated solution can disrupt the patient's balance of sodium, potassium, magnesium, and other electrolytes. Hospital patients usually receive blood tests to monitor these levels.

Embolism

A blood clot or other solid mass, or an air bubble, can be delivered into the circulation through an IV and end up blocking a vessel; this is called embolism. Peripheral IVs have a low risk of embolism, since large solid masses cannot travel through a narrow catheter, and it is nearly impossible to inject air through a peripheral IV at a dangerous rate. The risk is greater with a central IV.
Air bubbles of less than 30 milliliters generally dissolve into the circulation harmlessly. A larger amount of air, if delivered all at once, can cause life-threatening damage to pulmonary circulation, or, if extremely large (3-8 milliliters per kilogram of body weight), can stop the heart.
One reason veins are preferred over arteries for intravascular administration is because the flow will pass through the lungs before passing through the body. Air bubbles can leave the blood through the lungs. A patient with a heart defect causing a right-to-left shunt is vulnerable to embolism from smaller amounts of air.
Fatality by air embolism is vanishingly rare, in part because it is also difficult to diagnose.

Extravasation

Extravasation is the accidental administration of intravenously (IV) infused medicinal drugs into the surrounding tissue, either by leakage (e.g. because of brittle veins in very elderly patients), or directly (e.g. because the venflon has punctured the vein and the infusion goes directly into the arm tissue).

Post Quality Evaluations:
great post!
Very informative and knowledgeable post
excellent info

Last edited by Alfa; 10-08-2010 at 00:21.
  #5  
Old 11-02-2007, 01:52
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

And here is what happens to people who say ' fuck it' all for a measy 20-30 MG (which would take like 3-5 ccs of liquid to dissolve: See electrolyte imbalance) if 20mg of hydro or oxy gets you high, you shouldnt IV anyways.

http://www.iv-therapy.net/image/tid/2





http://www.iv-therapy.net/node/31

Check out them lungs. Looks healthy huh

Last edited by Forthesevenlakes; 11-02-2007 at 07:52.
  #6  
Old 11-02-2007, 03:14
Hlucn8 Hlucn8 is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

“Jacking Pills”
Wow! This is truly a complex issue; A high stakes game where the ante is swiyour life and the final hand is for keeps.
Let swim begin by saying that this post is for harm reduction purposes only, and his true desire is not to entice anybody who would otherwise not consider such a serious game. If swiyou are determined to pursue this rout of administration, use what swim has to say along with extreme caution and serious foresight as a guide. This is based allot on swims experience, not definitive truth backed by a hundred years of sound medical research. If swiyou are on the fence and not sure if this is something swiyou wish to do, let me urge swiyou now to think better of it. SWIY could always try insufflation and rectal admin, right? Go on, do that… Good boy.
Now, for the rest of swi-us.
Swim has been prepping and injecting oral opiates since the summer of 1999. He has had many mishaps and some serious close calls. He will attempt to distill his years of trial and error here and outline the dangers involved with this rout of administration and some techniques to reduce the risks and avoid some mistakes.
Lets begin by taking a close look at the composition of solid oral medications.

Active Ingredients- Pay dirt! This is what were after. Lets look at the name of the chemicals in question. The first word in the drug is the generic name, which is based loosely on the way the molecule looks and functions in relation to the human organism. The second word in the name is the ester, salt, amine…etc, which denotes how it is going to function in relation to other chemicals it comes into contact with, (i.e.… ph, solubility, reactivity, and so forth).

Opiates-In the case of opioid drugs we generally find the chemical in question in the form of a water soluble salt, which is very convenient for someone wishing to bypass the digestive tract and get it into his bloodstream quickly. The two most commonly prescribed orally active pain medications are Oxycodone Hydrochloride and Hydrocodone Bitartrate, (percocet and vicodan, respectively). Both are water soluble and can be injected directly into the bloodstream. (Important Note: Codeine should NOT be used I.V.! Very bad for the lungs and heart. It is safe to use codeine I.M and Sub.Q)

APAP-Another common active ingredient in oral pain med is acetaminophen. Its important to note right off that it is not very soluble in H2O. Sooo, if one were to just “shake and bake” a pain med containing APAP, one would be injecting solid acetaminophen crystals into his cardiovascular system. Please Don’t do this. Any solids injected into the circulatory system will wreck havoc with your body, especially your lungs. There are I.V. preparations of acetaminophen, (not yet marketed in the U.S., but its on the way) and it appears to be safe for I.V. use. In high doses it becomes increasingly hepatotoxic, (toxic to the liver), and the effects are cumulative. The normal adult dose for I.V. APAP is 1 gram over a time, with a limit of 4 grams in a 24 hour period. It is metabolized by the liver, and hepatotoxicity is very dose dependant, interacting with other substances in the circulatory system which are metabolized by the liver. So, if swiyou have alcohol in swiyour system, and swiyou introduce APAP as well, you are setting up a concoction of chemicals in swiyour blood that will become increasingly dangerous for swiyour liver to have to process.
Find an effective extraction tech. What little does go into solution in an I.V. prep is probably going to have the same effect as a proper I.V. preparation of APAP. This, however, is swims BIG ASSUMPTION. He tells me, in the years he has been doing his, that he is always very careful in his filtering out of unresolved solids, which would include APAP. He also has his liver function tested at least annually, and they have never come back abnormal, so it is probably a fair assumption.

Others- There are a myriad of oral narcotics, with a wide range of active ingredients. It is imperative that anybody wishing to shoot something that was intended by the manufacturer to be orally ingested thoroughly familiarize himself with every active ingredient and how it affects his body. If there are lingering questions about an active ingredient, don’t freakin risk it! A PDR comes in very handy in this.

Inactive Ingredients- The usual preparation of both Oxycodone and Hydrocodone is generally 5mg, with an FDA mandated limit of 15mg per tablet. 5mg of powder is not very big. So, to give the pill some mass, to keep it in its pill shape, and whatever else motivates the manufacturer to add substance x in with the drug, we find a whole slew of other ingredients mixed in. Talc, microcrystalline cellulose, different kinds of salt, sugars, and so on make the list. Most of them, if one were to introduce them into ones circulatory system, would begin to seriously screw up the human body. They would rapidly form granulomas throughout all the major organs, showing up in the lungs, the pancreas, liver, kidneys, …etc, seriously compromising their function. Thankfully, a lot of them are not water soluble and are easily filtered off. The ones that are generally are pretty benign. Its important to know, however. Take a close look at the list, which can be found in the description of the drug on the package insert. This handy dandy insert comes with every bottle of drug that a pharmacy receives, and a pharmacist I have found is usually very happy to give them to anybody upon request.
swiyou have to be careful. Sometimes a drug company will put a substance into a pill preparation to make it either difficult, painful, or downright dangerous to I.V. them. This is becoming more and more the norm with the bigger dosed, sustained release tablets rather than the smaller immediate release stuff. Some of the ones being seen right now is; capsasin, the chemical responsible for giving peppers their “heat”. Naltrexone, which if crushed renders opiates inactive. Some crap swim cant spell that, when the pill is crushed and mixed with water becomes the consistency of warm snot-coated buggers. One substance swim came across, (don’t know what it was), went into solution and made it past the filtration process, but then precipitated out, causing a nasty thrombosis. With a little ingenuity and a basic knowledge of chemistry, they can be gotten around most of the time. The name of the game is to familiarize oneself with what it is that makes up the composition of the tablet and the physical properties of said substance. In this game, what you don’t know can kill you

Other Dangers- Okay, swiy have prepped and filtered the crap out that poor 5 mg lortab until the adulterants are at a negligible level. Good to go, right? Nope! Sucker! Everything that stuff has come into contact with has introduced bacteria into the matrix. Usually you can be clean enough, boiling glass containers in the microwave, using distilled water,… etc, to minimize the risk to avoid any serious infections. Unless swiyou have a lab and are skilled in sterile technique, however, its tough to get a truly clean product. Is it a risk your willing to take? Swim has only suffered one major abscess in 7 years. That is probably a combination of a good immune system, good technique, and dumb luck. There is one method that will get you an almost sterile solution, and can be had for about ten bucks a pop. Syringe filters. It’s a little device that locks on to the end of a syringe, then the solution is forced through a micro filtration membrane. They have all size filtering options, from just solids suspended in the liquid down to one filtering out most bacteria. It’s a good idea to utilize one of these.

There are other things to consider which should be obvious, (addiction, O.D., stupidly high tolerance,… etc). Listen kids, don’t make these decisions lightly, mmmkay. Count the cost, consider your future, consider those that love you and how they would be effected if you ran into serious trouble jacking a stupid pill. People are going to do what there going to do. Swim sure did. Just be aware of yourself. If swiy know that you have a low I.Q., or are too lazy to go the extra mile to protect swiyourself, why not stick to booffing and snorting, huh?

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You shouldn't have been reluctant to post. People WILL try and shoot pills, sadly: So well written and thoughtful contributions are vital.
very informative
great info on what's really in pills
  #7  
Old 14-02-2007, 19:43
Dr.Jones Dr.Jones is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hlucn8 View Post
“Jacking Pills”
The two most commonly prescribed orally active pain medications are Oxycodone Hydrochloride and Hydrocodone Bitartrate, (percocet and vicodan, respectively). Both are water soluble and can be injected directly into the bloodstream. (Important Note: Codeine should NOT be used I.V.! Very bad for the lungs and heart. It is safe to use codeine I.M and Sub.Q)
IV hydrocodone has the same risks of codeine as far as histimine reactions. You had better include that in there too. Codeine vials do exist, just like hydrocodone CAN be injected, but it should only be done in a hospital setting. And hydro/codiene isnt much of a rush anyway and you risk filling your lungs up with fluid and drowning yourself. So, by the same token, NEVER IV HYDROCODONE.


Also, you seem to assume the risk of IVing APAP. Let it be known that this is a HUGE risk and never worth it. Im not angel and have done my share of nasty and unsafe stuff, but I do not condone the IV use of APAP preperations.

Also, i think boiling a solution in the microwave to 'sterilize' it is so fucking wrong and out there, we should never talk about ti like it is 'okay'. Heat does breakdown opiates, and a microwave is producing WELL over 300 F
  #8  
Old 15-02-2007, 11:33
Hlucn8 Hlucn8 is offline
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Re: Info request for the dangers of injecting acetaminophen and IV pill use

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jones View Post

Also, you seem to assume the risk of IVing APAP. Let it be known that this is a HUGE risk and never worth it. Im not angel and have done my share of nasty and unsafe stuff, but I do not condone the IV use of APAP preperations.
Okay, lets take a look at this statement. Before swim wrote this post he, like swiForTheSevenLakes, believed that I.V. APAP was a big "NONO". Turns out we were proved wrong. Undissolved APAP can be deadly, however, and swim said so in the body of the text. You're taking swim out of context, here.

Let swim be redundant. swiMy original intention, (One of, anyway), was to find the medical literature to support the belief that an APAP injection would be a catastrophic insult to the liver and include it here. The truth, however, was quite the contrary; what swIm found was that I.V. APAP is very viable, being used more and more extensively, and actually better tolerated than oral APAP by the because of first pass metabolism. The published preliminary clinical trials are the supporting documents swim used to write this short, (swiI suppose swiI could begin inserting a bibliography into swims posts).

Swim is not trying to pick a fight and wishes to extend the up most respect and courtesy to swiDr; but before you go trying to refute swimy statements, look at the literature and swims post again for yourself and you will see that swIm made no assumptions about I.V. APAP, (wherein it was dissolved in BA and BB).
The assumption swIm Did assert was that what little APAP goes into an aqueous solution would be handled in the human organism exactly, (or at least much), the same way that APAP solved in BA and BB. So, please, read up on the most recent medical info, and avoid confusing what swIm said in your replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jones View Post
Also, i think boiling a solution in the microwave to 'sterilize' it is so fucking wrong and out there, we should never talk about ti like it is 'okay'.


Oh really? Granted, An autoclave or pressure cooker would be better for sterilizing a drug dilutant, (water). I am addressing, however, young stoner's whose buddy just showed him how to draw 10cc of tap water into the barrel of a syringe with a couple of Dilaudid in the barrel and "stat shaking".

Well... This IS exactly what they are doing, swiDr.Jones, and will continue to do, unless somebody says to them,"Hey! Why not boil the water in a cup in the microwave first? It'll only take a few minuets longer!". "Oh, While your at it, you can throw your filter in for good measure."

If you'll notice, in swims original post, he did not provide a step-by-step guide. I don't want anyone to do this, and don't really want to inform anybody on how. This was a post in the interest of "Harm Reduction", Not, "Hey Joey! This is something cool, yo! You should give it a "Shot"!
SwIm just told our budding young junkie, who was on his way to the bathroom to do it anyway, there may be a safer-cleaner way that would not have occurred to him, keep him safer, and not take that much more time. No 14 year old stoner is going to spend 45 minutes at his grandmothers pressure cooker to sterilize his I.V. dilutant, but he just might toss that bacteria ridden 10cc of water in a tumbler glass along with a couple of filters, and greatly reduce his risk of acquiring a nasty staff infection. Again, I'm not condoning any of this, swI'm providing the best possible method to practice an unsafe act. I'm against pre-marital sex and will always counsel young people to wait, but once they've made the decision, the best I can do is tell them the "new way to play with their rubber ducky", see where I'm going with this, swiDr.Jones?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...70&expand=true
Goggle that and get back to swim.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jones View Post
Heat does breakdown opiates, and a microwave is producing WELL over 300 F


swIm never recommended using the wave to sterilize opiate chemicals. You need to go back and re-read my post, mate. swiI recommended using a sub-micron syringe filter.

swiI appreciate you taking the time to read swims post and for adding to the discussion. I'm not trying to flame anybody here, swiI just take issue with some of what you have written.

Swim enjoys writing about and sharing his research and personal experiences. That, along with harm reduction, is the whole point of these forums, right?

He does not condone any destructive behaviors or try to pursued anyone that these actions are morally correct, (that is the job of a defendant, and they don't pay swim well enough for that). I think he made that clear in his post.

By the same token, he does not condemn anybody for their choices, (That is a judges job, and he certainly doesn't get paid well enough for that!). I think he made that point clear as well.

No, In this post swim merely gives testimony to what he has seen, heard, and extrapolated from his research along with personal experiences. Sharing personal theories that one believes to be fact, when supported by the empirical data garnered from the most recent clinical research on the subject, is by no means irresponsible IF the writer makes it clear to the reader the nature of that assumption, and provides the argumentation; The biggest obligation to the writer in such circumstances is for him to make aware to the reader those instances instead of trying to play it off as being fact included in the body of the original research texts he used to form his hypothesis, (or "BIG ASSUMPTION"s).
So ,please, don't cuss at swim when swiy is responding to something he says. Its very poor form.

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hlcun handled that very well......props to you very respectful!

Last edited by Hlucn8; 15-02-2007 at 12:22.
  #9  
Old 15-02-2007, 22:14
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Hydrocodone should never be injected, for the same reason codeine should never be injected. PERIOD.

Percocet would be hard to fit in a 3ml in concetrations higher than 30mg per 3ml. If that gets you high, just take it orally. It has an oral bioavability of ~70%. If 30mg of percocet gets you high, you don't need to be IVing.


You have made the decisiion to go ahead and shoot pills with APAP. Its not a good idea for anyone, and don't come in here and try to argue how safe it is. Because it isn't. Someone without your long reaching knowledge would be less safe than you.
  #10  
Old 16-02-2007, 09:12
Hlucn8 Hlucn8 is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Jones View Post
You have made the decisiion to go ahead and shoot pills with APAP. Its not a good idea for anyone, and don't come in here and try to argue how safe it is. Because it isn't. Someone without your long reaching knowledge would be less safe than you.
Oh Wow, Mannn. Again your missing swim's point, swiJones.
Please, Somebody else out there, please tell swim you understood what he was trying to do here.. Please tell tell him did not waste another entire evening of writing!?!
  #11  
Old 16-02-2007, 09:22
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Well, if you are not discussing the dangers of IV APAP pills, why not make your own thread where we can discuss whatever you want. This thread is for newbies who come onthe forum and make a 'can I IV Loricet' thread. We should try not to consfuse them with all this jibba jabba

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SWIDr.Jones needs to re-read the original post, paying special attention to the first scentence.
Dr. Jones needs to READ posts before responding to an educated and intelligent post. Looking up the definition of "harm reduction" would be beneficial as well.
  #12  
Old 16-02-2007, 20:19
Jatelka Jatelka is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

The point is, people WILL try to inject pills, whatever is said. However inadvisable it is, however many links to gangrenous limbs, abscesses, emboli lungs etc, people WILL want to do it and they WILL find a way to do it.

In SWIJ's view, anything that contributes to harm reduction needs to be discussed. SWIY may not agree, but there are valid points expressed throughout this thread.

(Disclaimer: SWIJ does NOT recommend shooting pills: SWIY could die)
  #13  
Old 22-02-2007, 06:47
Dr.Jones Dr.Jones is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

You can 'find a way' to iv percocet, the same way you can 'find a way' to IV Sand. You can put anything smaller than a marble in your body, I am just trying to tell you, there are habits you can maintain for maybe 5 years and habits that will kill you in 2 weeks.
  #14  
Old 26-04-2007, 12:10
Motorhead Motorhead is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Here is a manual, Getting of Right, prepared by the harm reduction coalition on safe injection practices. It doesn't directly concern pills and APAP removal, but safe and healthy injection techniques should be followed by any IV drug user. It is very comprehensive with many illustrations, and is very easy to read. Here in the file-archive Opium, opiate & opiods .

Post Quality Evaluations:
Thanks for reminding me to give good karma for the injection guide!
  #15  
Old 26-04-2007, 19:05
fnord fnord is offline
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everything you need to know about injecting.

hope this dosent count as double posting mrjim but i thought it might save a few redundant questions,seeing as not everyone uses the archives.

IV drug users manual .PDF

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/loc...=1739&catid=24
  #16  
Old 13-08-2007, 16:17
BakaBilly BakaBilly is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hlucn8 View Post
Oh Wow, Mannn. Again your missing swim's point, swiJones.
Please, Somebody else out there, please tell swim you understood what he was trying to do here.. Please tell tell him did not waste another entire evening of writing!?!

SWIM sees SWIYour point and even though SWIM will never EVER inject a pill I think SWIYour post was highly informative.

People will do what they want and just because a bunch of people came on here and wrote "dont do it" at least someone posted "well if you ARE going to do it, at least try and make it as safe as possible.".
  #17  
Old 28-08-2007, 11:15
white stripes white stripes is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

Has any one heard about injecting Fortwin 30mg tabs (Pentazocine Lactate).
If you can, how should this be done.
  #18  
Old 11-09-2007, 13:22
Ethyl Ethyl is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

Safe injection of pills by extracting the alkaloids only.

As most of you know there is a type of extraction that works pretty well in terms of purity. The acid/base extraction is a way to extract alkaloids from other substances, leaving a product that can be 99,9% pure..

If you inject pills do a acid/base extraction.
  #19  
Old 26-09-2007, 23:41
Ellis D. Ellis D. is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

what if SWIM just sucked the water/pill mixture through a cig filter and cotton on top of the cig filter. seems like you might pick up some of those sugars or other filler sh!t, maybe, but I doubt any serious damage would be done if SWIus shot that up?

Swim has a lab rat withdrawing like a mofo right now and the rat has 10mg of hydrocodone(hahahahhahahahahha), 65mg of oxy, and 3 1/2 methadose 40mg wafers. Rat has been shooting 100 - 200mg of heroin a day for the past 3 months and has been on H for almost a year. It's been three days and the poor litle guy is shivering and aching like a like a crack whore god he says it's terrible. So obviously this rat is going to do SOMETHING. And it's most likely gonna be IV, so what do you guys think would hav the most effect after 2 1/2 days of sobriety and pain for little lab ratty; 65mg oxycodone (3250mg APAP I believe) or do up some methadone; which ever sucked through a cig filter and cotton......?
  #20  
Old 27-09-2007, 03:25
supe supe is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

listen to ethyl. do an acid/base extraction. if you do the cig filter and cotton you are still leaving around 40-30% of the no-no stuff in there which is bad. SWIM has been doing research on this and it seems that even wheel filters are not adequate. They can filter out viruses but when it comes to molecules such as certain fillers and binders they just pass right through. Some are large enough to be caught but some aren't like calcium carbonate we are talking in the lower, double digit nanometer range for size. You might seem ok if you do it once or twice maybe 500 times, but you will be causing damage to your body. You will eventually end up with blockages and have a stroke, MI, or lose a limb. Be safe out there
  #21  
Old 12-04-2008, 20:50
The_Tortured_Soul The_Tortured_Soul is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

Pharmaceutical companies are mean. So what if someone IV's there drug to get high. I guess they want to hurt those people and put a bunch of BS in their pills.
  #22  
Old 23-06-2008, 11:34
bubblybabs bubblybabs is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

I just wanted to mention that I'm a nurse who had to try to resuscitate a patient who died after injecting crushed morphine IR into his PICC line... It wasn't pretty and I still see his face... I know people will do this no matter what people stay so I'm just going to be a voice of reason stating to please be careful if you do decide to inject crushed pills - it doesn't just affect you if you code and die...

Babs
  #23  
Old 03-08-2008, 22:59
NoleGirl323 NoleGirl323 is offline
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Re: The risks and dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questions!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BakaBilly View Post
SWIM sees SWIYour point and even though SWIM will never EVER inject a pill I think SWIYour post was highly informative.

People will do what they want and just because a bunch of people came on here and wrote "dont do it" at least someone posted "well if you ARE going to do it, at least try and make it as safe as possible.".
Swim also sees your point and is thankful for such an informative post. Swim is one of those "budding junkies" who tried to bang up some roxys by crushing them up & adding tap water, then sucking the mixure up an insulin needle. Good thing swim didn't know that you actually had to stick the needle in a vein.. Swim wants to try again, but needles are hard to come in swim's neck of the woods.

Somebody posted that you can't find more than 10 mgs of oxy or hydro.. swim has about roxicodone - 30 mgs each pill. 30 lovely mgs. of strait oxycodone. Swim snorts about 8 - 10 a day, plus takes 20 - 40 mgs of opana a day, but tolerance is getting high, so swim really wants to try the needle. Swim isn't too keen on the whole up the butt thing, plus, swim is so damn constipated the pill would probably just get sucked up into some waste that can't make it out.. Sorry, that was gross.

BUT, thanks for the post, very informative. SWIM will refer back to this if swim can ever find an effin needle.
  #24  
Old 08-08-2008, 02:55
Psych0nautPlatinum member Psych0naut is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

Not that SWIM should push you even more in the direction of using needles, but obtaining sterile insulin syringes isn't that hard. Just go to the pharmacy and buy a ten strip of insulin syringes. Unless ofcourse, SWIY's state is so barbaric to demand the sale of syringes to be prescription only. In that case, there's still the option of going to a Needle Exchange. And lastly, there are several online web-shops on the internet which sell sterile syringes in different gauges, volumes, needle lengths and what not. They often also sell micron filters, which are mandatory when injecting pills.
  #25  
Old 08-08-2008, 12:02
Bajeda Bajeda is offline
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Re: Injecting Basics, dangers of IVing pills. READ THIS before posting IV pill questi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Psych0naut View Post
Not that SWIM should push you even more in the direction of using needles, but obtaining sterile insulin syringes isn't that hard. Just go to the pharmacy and buy a ten strip of insulin syringes. Unless ofcourse, SWIY's state is so barbaric to demand the sale of syringes to be prescription only. In that case, there's still the option of going to a Needle Exchange. And lastly, there are several online web-shops on the internet which sell sterile syringes in different gauges, volumes, needle lengths and what not. They often also sell micron filters, which are mandatory when injecting pills.
Only thirty two states had needle exchanges in 1996 and 36 states by 2002, and some states are still actively fighting their introduction. Federal funding of needle exchange programs is not permitted.

The information from 1996 listed a NEP as being in Florida (yes, only one for the entire state), but newer news articles mention NEPs being prohibited currently.


From yet another source vvvvv

Quote:
However, as a result of the failure of federal, state and local governments to take the lead in initiating evidence-based prevention efforts, the North American Syringe Exchange Network reported in 2002 that there were only approximately 176 programs operating in 36 states, the district of Columbia and Puerto Rico, and according to the Lindesmith Center, only about 10% of injectors have access to sterile syringes.

Quote:
And last, in a 2000 survey of syringe exchange programs in North America, over 20% of 134 programs said they had problems with their legal status and over 30% described police harassment as a regular occurrence


Quote:
The second are State paraphernalia laws. 47 States and DC have drug paraphernalia laws that make the unauthorized manufacture, possession or distribution of drug paraphernalia a misdemeanor or felony offense. Out of those, only five states carve out exceptions for operating syringe exchange programs and those five states require NEP participants to carry a certificate or other evidence of program participation. Some states even ban the implementation of needle exchange in their statutory laws. Of the ten states with the highest rates of injection related AIDS, four have laws that prevent the establishment of needle exchange programs. And New York, Maryland, Connecticut, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Massachusetts permit injecting drug users access to sterile syringes under some conditions, but the situation is mixed: Maryland only permits NEP in Baltimore. In Pennsylvania and Massachusetts, NEPs only exists on the basis of local initiative, and in my city of Springfield, which ranks 13th per capita in the nation with regard to injection related AIDS, the city council consistently votes it down.

Can't assume someone will have access to the proper equipment if they live in the US or another country generally opposed to needle exchanges or other sane harm reduction measures.

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harm reduction, injecting, injecting buprenorphine, injecting pills, injecting suboxone, intravenous hydromorphone, intravenous oxycodone, iv hydromorphone, iv oxycodone, rules and faq's, safer injecting, shooting buprenorphine, shooting suboxone

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