Scheduling of research chemicals in the US vs Europe

[stjbm06]

VERY nice discussion here!

SWIM agrees with most of the points and counterpoints made on here. Let's further the discussion about the future of Pipz.

SWIY: Do you think that mCPP, MeOPP, TFMPP will be quick to follow in this trend of Pipz criminalization across the world? Note that in the U.S., TFMPP was the ONLY drug to EVER be put in the highest CSA classification (for "immediate scheduling in Schedule 1"), and then after an FDA study, removed from the CSA entirely -- making it currently entirely legal to buy / sell /possess.

SWIM thinks this merits MUCH more study on its recreational potential, don't you?!??

-J

[renegades]

yuck, mCPP, MeOPP and TFMPP all these did was give swm hot flashes, not the inner warmth the euphoria brings on. Matter of fact forgot about euphoria, these were like the first 3 compounds along with BZP to be sold as RCs. Promises esctacy like buzz, but instead swim go a big body load, felt umcomfortable and plan did not have a good time. Swim still has some, but has not used it since 1995. No desire too either. Horrible time. BZP shows positive for meth use, so subsitution that was popular in 2002, could not fool the tests. Swim stilll don't get why people still talk about these ancient RCs, when the 2Cs and DOxs are available. Much better buzz.

[Abrad]

Swim stilll don't get why people still talk about these ancient RCs, when the 2Cs and DOxs are available.

Did you read the thread?
The topic is about piperizines being banned in Ireland where they are commonly sold in headshops. 2c-x/Dox compounds are scheduled here and bear no relevance to this thread.

[renegades]

Yeah I read the thread and I feel you all are living in the wrong country. Your health minister spokesman is a laughing stock. Wow they are banning anything that alters one state in Ireland. Too bad 2cs and DOxs are scheduled, swim should move to a country where they are still legal like the USA. Plus screw the piperizines, here in the USA we are flooded with crystal meth. 50x the strength of Piperizines, so give that a try, a lot smoother ride and much more rewarding effects. Flush those piperizines.

[podge]

Originally Posted by renegades

Yeah I read the thread and I feel you all are living in the wrong country. Your health minister spokesman is a laughing stock. Wow they are banning anything that alters one state in Ireland. Too bad 2cs and DOxs are scheduled, swim should move to a country where they are still legal like the USA. Plus screw the piperizines, here in the USA we are flooded with crystal meth. 50x the strength of Piperizines, so give that a try, a lot smoother ride and much more rewarding effects. Flush those piperizines.

Actually america is a lot more extreme when it comes to drug prohibition. If 2c's and DOx's are still legal in America ( which swim didnt know, swim thought everything in shulgins thikal and phikal had been banned in the U.S by now) it wont last....! True ireland is living in the stone age when it comes to drug laws..... but america have turned nazi on drugs....all out elimination . Swim has heard of a guy not far from where he lives who was caught with 5 ounces and the police let him off the hook......the police then found out he was transporting kilo's and couldnt bust him because he threatened he would report them for not busting him with the 5 ounces......nice little blackmail swim thinks. Swim is also glad ireland isnt flooded with crystal meth.....altough that probably wont last either. There is still a lot of controversy about BZP in ireland and by the look of things it will be criminalised.....but swim doesnt care as long as mescaline containing cacti arent banned.

[Storming Heaven]

Sorry dude I gotta agree with podge america bans EVERYTHING in fact lets be honest they also lean on many other countrys to ban everything!!! Leading the way save us all from ourselves God Bless Us All! One nation of facist control freaks under God etc... The fact is Ireland and UK are actually kind of laid back in comparison. And i wouldnt fly the flag for crystal meth as it is a nasty little back room lab created highly addictive and destructive drug.

[renegades]

Sorry but the vast array of 2Cs and DOxs and 5meos are legal in the USA. It is not illegal to posses the drug. It gets kinda of tricky if the RC is put on blotter or in a cap, still not illegal to posses. 6 years of GW and they only things banned were 2ct7 and 5meo-dipt. However, there are many sources in India, Germany, China, N Korea that make the stuff, so someone in the US can order from one of these sources legally. It seems like our european friends governments are not as lax as here in the states when it comes to RCs. No the USA did not tell Britian outlaw all of Pikal. Pretty soon Europeans will only be left with dandylions to smoke the way their governments have classified everything. Sure am glad to be in the states. Hey crystal meth, if used sparringly, blows doors on bzp. It is like night and day when comparing the two. BZP - body load, feel awake no euphoria, tingling sensation in hands and feet no thankyou, a bump gets the engine firing on all eight cylinders for the next 12 hours and it is very clean, no body load with rushes of euphoria. Agree it is not for daily use. But isn;t that what people are doing in Ireland, popping BZP daily? Is that healthy?

[Abrad]

But isn;t that what people are doing in Ireland, popping BZP daily?

Eh, no. Where did you get that idea?
I am hardly a proponent of piperizines, read my post history for further details, but to suggest the US is some sort of drug haven is ridiculous. Didn't you schedule piperizines several years ago? Mushrooms were available legally in Ireland up to last year, they have been illegal in the US since the 70's. You yourself have been posting constantly about the DEA's plans to schedule the whole of PIHKAL/TIHKAL.

[Alfa]

Posts moved to new thread.

The US has an analog law, which is pretty unheard of in Europe.
The UK has a pretty large amount of Research chemicals banned.
Denmark is prety quick with banning research chemicals as well.

Maybe we should list which country has which research chemicals banned. That would be very usefull.

[grandbaby]

Canada's pretty easy on the RCs. No tryptamines besides Psilocybin, Psilocin, DET, and DMT are scheduled, and only one 2C-x and a few DOx's are specifically named. I don't think any of the piperazines are scheduled here, but my IUPAC is weak and the gov't here uses a set of conventions that are unfamiliar to me (for example, 2C-B is listed as "4–bromo–2,5–dimethoxybenzeneethanamine").

The following substances which may be considered RCs are Schedule III in Canada (illegal to possess, seek to obtain, or traffic in):

DOM
DOET
DOB
DOC
DET
2C-B

(if I've missed any, why don't you PM me and I can edit this list so it can be a handy reference, rather than cluttering up the thread with "what about Substance X?" posts?)

[fastandbulbous]

6 years of GW and they only things banned were 2ct7 and 5meo-dipt.

And AMT!

[renegades]

AMT was scheduled wasn't it. Well only three out of how many have been scheduled. Agree, currently the USA is liberal about RCs but this is the calm before the storm. Since 2004 the DEA has been looking at making RCs CSAs and over the next two years were documenting everything it could regarding these chemicals:

• N,N-Dipropyltryptamine (DPT)
  N,N-Diisopropyltryptamine (DIPT)
  5-Methoxy-N,N-diethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DET)
  5-Methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine (5-MeO-DET)
  5-Methoxy-alpha-methyltyrptamine (5-MeO-AMT)
  4-Methoxy-N-methyl-N-isopropyltryptamine (4-MeO-MIPT)
  5-Methoxy-N-methyl-N-isopropyltryptamine (5-MeO-MIPT)
  N-Methyl-N-isopropyltryptamine (5-MeO-MIPT)
  4-Hydroxy-N,N-diisopropyltryptamine (4-OH-DIPT)

The phenethylamines include:

• 2,5-Dimethoxy-4-ethylthiophenethylamine (2C-T-2) 4-Iodo-2,5-dimethoxy-phenethylamine (2C-I) 2,5-Dimethoxy-4(2-fluoroethylthio)phenethylamine (2C-T-21) 2,5-Dimethoxy-4-ethylphenethylamine (2C-E) 2,5-Dimethoxy-4-cholorophenethylamine (2C-C) 5-(2-Aminopropyl)indane (API) 5-Chloro-3,4-dimethoxyphenethylamine

• Two years have elapsed since this collection of data started, how much longer are they planning on studying the situation. I guess they would not want to schedule something that turns out to have some medical benefit like E and Pot and have to defend the decision to a chorus of boos. Now they have expanded the list to include all Pikals work. WIth democratic chuck schumer head of the justice committee in the Senate last year voted to give the DEA a substantial budget increase to fight drugs so swim don't think schumer would have sympathic ear. Remember big government means more laws and regulations. His committee probably would rubber - stamp the RCs becoming CSAs into law. Remember government is there to protect yourself from yourself because the average joe makes a lot of bad decisions. So laws guide our behavior to good things and away from bad things like RCs.

[Rush]

European laws varies a lot between countries.
there isnt an analogue act, in europe(a part UK)

2C-I, 2CT7, 2CT2 and TMA2 are controlled in all EU, after an EU council about new drugs in 2003.

I read somewhere that 2CB is uncontrolled in spain, thoug, it seem strange to me.


Greece is tight about tryptamines and piperazines.
Belgium also has laws aginst piperazines(tfmpp,meopp, mcpp in particular).

Italy, Spain and France are probably the countries with less regulation regarding designer drugs.(no media coverage)

Japan has an ambiguous drug attitude: 2CB was sold OTC in shops before scheduling, and most other RC not scheduled are sold legally in shops.however 5-meo-amt was scheduled in summer 2005.the most known tryptamines are also scheduled.

Germany seems to follow USA laws, a part for 5-meo-DMT,DOC


Sweeden(and probably other scandinavian countries) is tight about RC. those are scheduled in sweeden:
N-metyl-1-(3,4-metylendioxifenyl)-2-butylamin (MBDB)
1-(3,4-metylendioxifenyl)-2-butylamin (BDB)
N-bensylpiperazin(BZP)
4-klor-2,5-dimetoxiamfetamin (DOC)
5-metoxi-N,N-dimetyltryptamin (5-MeO-DMT)
5-metoxi-N,N-diisopropyltryptamin (5-MeO-DIPT)
5-metoxi-alfametyltryptamin (5-MeO-AMT)
2,5-dimetoxi-4-etylfenetylamin (2C-E)
alfa-metyltryptamin (AMT)
2,5-dimetoxi-4-klorfenetylamin (2C-C)
2,5-dimetoxi-4-metylfenetylamin (2C-D)
4-acetoxi-N,N-diisopropyltryptamin (4-AcO-DIPT)
4-hydroxi-N,N-diisopropyltryptamin (4-HO-DIPT)
gammabutyrolakton (GBL)
1,4-butandiol (1,4-BD)
3,4-metylendioximetkatinon (Metylon)
4-acetoxi-N,N-metylisopropyltryptamin (4-AcO-MIPT)
4-hydroxi-N,N-metylisopropyltryptamin (4-HO-MIPT)
4-acetoxi-N,N-dietyltryptamin (4-AcO-DET)
4-hydroxi-N,N-dietyltryptamin (4-HO-DET)
1-(3-trifluormetylfenyl)piperazin (TFMPP)
salvinorin A

In italy the only RC scheduled are DOB,DOM,2C-I, 2CT7, 2CT2,MBDB and TMA2(as from 2003 EU concil). AMT is legal, like all other tryptamines,excluding LSD like substances, AET,DET and DMT.
Portugal law is almost like italian law, but with DPT scheduled

Considerations: Italy, Spain, France and Portugal have less scheduled RC in the whole EU.
Sweeden has tighter regulation in all EU.
UK is tight too, but with an analogue act.(however M1 and MDPV can be considered legal because they are ketones instead of PEAs.Also AMT seems to be legal, because it is not considered a trypt analogue)
Scandinavian countries, Danmark,Belgium and Greece follow more or less Sweeden regulation, but not so tight.
Netherland is the only country(along with sweeden) with Methylone scheduled.

Seen on erowid that vicodin is OTC in some EU countries: It isnt.

Reputation Comments on this post:

nice research!

[Abrad]

UK is tighter too, but with an analogue act.

The UK does not have an Analogue Act as such, rather a clause added to the Misuse of Drugs Act to catch any compounds not specifically scheduled. This is distinctly different to the US "Analogue Act" in that any substance not covered would be legal, even with intent to consume.

Japan has an ambiguous drug attitude: 2CB was sold OTC in shops before scheduling, and most other RC not scheduled are sold legally in shops.however 5-meo-amt was scheduled in summer 2005.the most known tryptamines are also scheduled.

You do realise that Japan is not part of Europe? Or am I missing something.

[Rush]

just wanted to say that japan has a particular attitude towards RC...However japan fits in western style laws, about drug regulation, so it could be interesting discussing about japan law....sorry if got off-topic!

about UK, yeah, you're right, I just didn't know how it was called that thing. Thanks for specifing that.

[podge]

Originally Posted by renegades

But isn;t that what people are doing in Ireland, popping BZP daily? Is that healthy?

What ? where did swiy hear this ? Swim has never touched a BZP even though they are legal....in fact swim doesnt know anybody off the top of his head who has taken them ( and swim knows quite a few people who are interested in altered states ).

[Vanadium]

AET is now illegal in switzerland ... but not AMT !!

[Alfa]

Rush, please edit the code out of your post. I have just upgraded you to silver member, because of the content of that post.

[renegades]

Swim now believes that the DEA will be unable to blanket scheduled 1 substances with Dennis Kucinich in charge of the house oversight committee who strongly believes pot should be available for medicinal purposes. He does not like drug laws on the books and wanted to overhaul the sentencing laws of the country. Unfortunately, Pelosi veto the idea saying she did not want democrats to appear soft on crime until the democrats win the white house. Still I can't see the DEA getting away with scheduling 200 drugs, the house committee with Kucinich will not allow 200 additional drugs to be scheduled when the DEA can't prove they are dangerous. That is 200 more materials customs needs to be ready to confiscate and test, So swims prediction that it would occur this summer was written when that ding-a-ling republican from Indiana was running the show, now that he is out of the picture, the odds changed in favor of this scheduling will be shot down.

[Rush]

Originally Posted by Vanadium

AET is now illegal in switzerland ... but not AMT !!

AET is probably illegal worldwide...

[Vanadium]

Originally Posted by Rush

AET is probably illegal worldwide...

Ah ? why not amt ?? is the cause the use of AET as pharmaceutical ?

[Rush]

Originally Posted by Vanadium

Ah ? why not amt ?? is the cause the use of AET as pharmaceutical ?

AET devolped in the 60' as an antidepressive(powerful and interesting, swim would say) and was scheduled in the USA in 1993 when it started its use as a drug, then was evaluted by the "WHO, Expert Committee on Drug Dependence. 29th Report. Geneva, World Health"(in 1995)
LINK=[http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_856.pdf]

since i think every country in the world agrees that treaty(maybe some nations dont follow that treaty i dont know)then,if a substance found by the meeting to be harmful,or having an abuse potential is scheduled by those countries.

this is also why 2C-B,MBDB,GHB and 4-MTA are scheduled everywhere:
they were examined in 2000
LINK=[http://whqlibdoc.who.int/trs/WHO_TRS_903.pdf]
[from http://www.who.int/substance_abuse/r.../en/index.html]

AMT was a pharmaceutical too (an antidepressive drug), devolped in the 60's like AET, but in the soviet union.however AMT had his popularity peak as a drug, later than AET, in 2003, and then got scheduled in usa(and the places that schedules every new stuff every time) and by now it has not been examined in any of those Committee on Drug Dependence. so this is why it is not scheduled everywhere.

hey, i read now AET caused agranulocytosis! thats dangerous...be careful with those chemicals...!

[snapper]

It also causes aplastic anemia or agranulocytosis in some people.. That's a better reason to ban it and something to consider for those who choose to experiment with it. It is a disorder of the bone marrow which often requires a marrow transplant to cure.

[Rush]

I've searched around for AET.
The agranulocytosis cases are few, can be an allergic reaction, they should have researched this further.

however,AET was examined by the WHO just because somebody(a lot, DEA says) took the chemical for recreational purposes and died.

[lulz]

Can anybody comment on the following legal definition? I'm trying to determine which RCs are specifically controlled in Ireland:

SCHEDULE 1.
The following substances and products, namely:
a)
Bufotenine.
Cannabinol, except where contained in cannabis or cannabis resin.
Cannabinol derivatives.
Cannabis and cannabis resin.
Cathinone.
Coca leaf.
Concentrate of poppy-straw.
Eticyclidine.
Lysergamide.
Lysergide and other N-alkyl derivatives of lysergamide.
Mescaline.
Notice of the making of this Statutory Instrument was published in "Iris Oifigiúil" of20 th December,1988 .
1/ Note by the Secretariat: E/NL. 1978/6
2/ Note by the Secretariat: E/NL. 1979/51
Psilocin.
Raw opium.
Rolicyclidine.
Tenocyclidine.
N,N-Diethyltryptamine.
N,N-Dimethyltryptamine.
N-(l-Benzyl-4-piperidyl) propionanilide.
N-[1-(2-Thenyl)-4-piperidyl] propionanilide.
2,5-Dimethoxy-∝ 4-dimethylphenethylamine.
( b)
any substance (not being a substance specified in sub-paragraph ( a) above) structurally derived from tryptamine or from a ringhydroxy tryptamine by substitution at the nitrogen atom of the sidechain with one or more alkyl substituents but no other substituent;
( c)
any substance (not being methoxyphenamine or a substance specified in sub-paragraph ( a) above) structurally derived from phenethylamine, an N-alkylphenethylamine, ∝-methyl phenethylamine, an N-alkyl- ∝-methylphenethylamine, ∝-ethylphenethlamine, or an N-alkyl -∝-ethylphenethylamine by substitution in the ring to any extent with alkyl, alkoxy, alkylenedioxy or halide substituents, whether or not further substitutes in the ring by one or more other univalent substituents;

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/legal_...30_1993-9.html

I understand that nearly all common RCs are derived from tryptamine or phenethylamine, but I don't understand the implications of the text above that I put in bold.

Apart from that, I found a page on the European Legal Database on Drugs that says the following RCs are controlled throughout Europe:

4-MTA, PMMA, 2C-I, 2C-T-2, 2C-T-7 and TMA-2

http://eldd.emcdda.europa.eu/index.c...Languageiso=EN

That page also had a link to the following chart of drug classifications in European countries, unfortunately it was last updated in 2002, but it verified that at least the following RCs are controlled in Ireland:

2-CB, DOB

http://eldd.emcdda.europa.eu/index.c...languageISO=EN

There are probably one or two that I missed on the table, those are the only two I noticed.

If anyone can help explain the legal definition I quoted at the start of this post, I'm sure a couple of us Irish members on the forum would greatly appreciate it.