kicking methadone:still sick after 1 year?

[ojos_de_brujo]

A friend of mine has used heroin for 15 years. The next 6 years she was on methadon. She desperately wants to quit methadone. She has tried this twice. The first time she was of it for one year, but the withdrawal symptoms seem to have lasted all this time. She started back on methadone, stopped again with the same result.
This was done under medical supervision, no other reason for the symptoms (abdominal cramps, muscle aches, insomnia,...) was found.

She wonders if the methadone (or heroin) has caused her body or brain to be permanently damaged so she can not live without opiates?

Does anybody have experience with kicking methadone?

[Forthesevenlakes]

Opiates, as a general rule, do not cause damage to the brain or organs, at least not any toxicity. They do induce changes in the brain which is what creates tolerance and addiction, but they should not just cause cells to die and lead to long-term side effects after quitting. Some chemical byproducts of synthetic opiates sold on the street (look up MPTP and MPPP for more info) can cause damage, but this is more akin to Parkinson's symptoms than the withdrawal symptoms that SWIYou describes.

Methadone withdrawals are usually longer than other opiates, taking up to a month (or even 6 weeks according to some) to complete. However, withdrawals lasting a year is something that would be new to SWIM. Have the doctors evaluated SWIY's friend at all to see if there isnt something else at fault here? Does SWIY's friend get relief from the symptoms when using opiates?

There are several threads on here about kicking methadone, feel free to use the search engine to supplement any responses to this thread.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Swim's friend is actually Someone Who Isn't Me. Swim knows her friend has been checked out by a doctor, but he found nothing. She also says using opiates relieves her symptoms.
This Swim doesn't feel what her friend is feeling, so she can't really elaborate.
Swim asked because she has never heard of this problem.
Swim thinks maybe her friend has irritable bowel syndrom, or something obscure doctors don't know about. Swim thought, but did not mention this to her friend, that maybe she had just become very sensitive to pain, since she had been using opiates for 20+ years.
Swim advised vitamin supplements, and nootropics to help create new 'pathways' in the brain, because Swim herself has been helped by these.
Swim has used heroin for a few years, but never had prescription methadone.

Also, Swim has used the search engine before posting, but did not find a satisfying answer to this specific question of longlasting symptoms after kicking methadone. Swim can now see her last question in the original post does not reflect what she really wanted to say. So she apologizes. Swim will have to increase her dose of nootropics to be able to make more sense in her posts )

[Forthesevenlakes]

Ahh, thanks, the thread makes more sense to me now. Sorry SWIM can't be of more help, he's just never heard of this happening before! But SWIM's best guess is that it's not the methadone withdrawals, even methadone withdrawals shouldnt last up to a year, as long as they usually are. SWIY's suspicion that another medical issue may come to the fore when SWIY's friend is not using opiates is a valid one, and while SWIM is not sure that it's IBS (he doesnt know enough about the situation to say), that this is certainly possible. Perhaps the friend developed it while she was using opiates often, but didn't even notice that it was developing since opiates usually controlled the symptoms of the disorder. This is not a certainty, but its SWIM's best guess! If SWIY and SWIYour friend find out more about the situation, please do keep us informed about the developments since SWIM is very interested by this thread.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Thanks for your reply. I'll keep you informed.

[southridge]

It may be true that long term opiate exposure results in permanent changes. Depression & insomnia may persist for a year or more. People are killing themselves with methdone apparently trrying to get high & there is some evidence to suggest methodone is harder to get off of than moriphine. If prescribed opiates are available for reasons of chronic pain this makes getting clean much more difficult. This swim had to make the choice, is quality of life better with or without. & has done both. there is no set rule from swim to swim. long term exposure to high levels apparently produces drastic changes. Give 6 months to see if post acute withdrawl symptoms ease. if not you have a very difficult road ahead & will have to choose some sort of maintainence. If you can maintain a functual level within our society by meeting your obligations quit beating yourself up for being an addict. If your just trying to stay blotto then the hell of detox is necessary. remember staying clean requires a feirce moral inventory on a daily basis, & good luck!

[southridge]

In rapid opiate detox they must titrate you onto another opiate because it takes 10 days to detox from methdone but 6 hours in rapid detox. this is similar to the far east in wich an addict is titrated on whole poppy tea. it seems the further man takes a natural substance out of nature that all the trouble begins.

Reputation Comments on this post:

This is wrong, even in your next post, you said when its replaced with morphine, it's still wrong. I've never seen any l...

[southridge]

Originally Posted by southridge

In rapid opiate detox they must titrate you onto another opiate because it takes 10 days to detox from methdone but 6 hours in rapid detox. this is similar to the far east in wich an addict is titrated on whole poppy tea. it seems the further man takes a natural substance out of nature that all the trouble begins.

what i mean to say is methdone is replaced with morphin & they detox you with naltrexone..

[Santa]

Originally Posted by ojos_de_brujo

A friend of mine has used heroin for 15 years. The next 6 years she was on methadon. She desperately wants to quit methadone. She has tried this twice. The first time she was of it for one year, but the withdrawal symptoms seem to have lasted all this time. She started back on methadone, stopped again with the same result.
This was done under medical supervision, no other reason for the symptoms (abdominal cramps, muscle aches, insomnia,...) was found.

She wonders if the methadone (or heroin) has caused her body or brain to be permanently damaged so she can not live without opiates?

Does anybody have experience with kicking methadone?

I just happened to stumble upon this post and this Swim IS 'Afriendofmine'.

This is Swim's story of her neverending battle with methadone: at age 14 Swim fell in love with a teacher with some truly bad habits, such as shooting up speed and H and having no problem with Swim doing the same thing. So Swim started to use speed (IV) and switched to heroine within a
year. Since she wanted to lead a 'normal life' Swim tried to detox at age 16 and was put on methadone (something which was done way too eagerly in the Netherlands in the eighties). This only resulted in a double addiction: Swim used at least 50 mgs methadone + a few shots of heroine daily back then.
At age 19 Swim managed to graduate from highschool and tried to kick the habit once again before going to university.
She managed to do so succesfully and stayed clean for over 6 months. The detox was a breeze compared to what Swim went through later on in life since she had 'only' been addicted for 5 years or so. Unfortunately Swim was still very much addicted mentally at the time so she started to use again without any particular reason whatsoever. Something that won't surpise some of you.
In no time Swim used 75 mgs of methadone again and she was shooting up more and more heroine every day.
However, somehow Swim still managed to have a more or less normal life. Swim was very hard on herself and believed that she had to work instead of committing crimes or doing anything else she would regret later on in life. Needless to say, all her well-earned money ended up in her arms. Nobody except her boyfriend knew anything about Swim's longterm addiction at the time so Swim had a double life for years.
Obviously Swim didn't earn enough money to maintain this addiction and she hated herself for not being able to get off opioids. So swim started using even more methadone.
When Swim was 31 she fell in love with a guy who surprisingly wasn't addicted to anything. He didn't even smoke. He respected Swim - addicted as she was and all - and stayed by her side when Swim decided to give it another try.

With his help Swim quit heroine for good and started to detox methadone again. Swim did this very gradually, only reducing her dose with 5 mgs a month but once she came down to 10 mgs the nightmare began.
Swim was already used to the months of sweating, the insomnia, the sneezing and the diarrea but suddenly even worse symptoms started to set in: Swim got severe musclepains in her back and started to loose a lot of weight but the worst part was that Swim had a bloathed stomach all day which caused her severe and continuous pain.
Still, Swim decided to continue her detox and within 3 more months she managed to get down to 0 methadon. She thought that these
withdrawalsymptoms would slowly disappear in a few months but the pain only grew worse and sometimes Swim couldn't even go to the toilet for days in a roll (a very rare phenomena when kicking the habit ).
Swim was getting desperate by then and had herself thoroughly checked out in the hospital but nothing was found except Irritable Bowel Syndrome (thank god, thought Swim).
Later Swim tried several anti-depressants, hoping that a depression could be the cause of all this without her being aware of it but nothing worked.
Finally Swim tried naltrexone but this too didn't make any difference whatsoever.
Nine months went by and there was still no improvement. Swim tried to go out and walk a little but was too weak to this very often. Swim
showered 6 times a day to get a little warm. But most of all Swim started to get very pissed because she wanted to feel better and get her life back.

By then Swim just had to start working again to make a living because Swim and her boyfriend aren't millionairs. So finally she had to get back on methadone again, there was no other option. Swim had been sick for almost a year by then.
The methadone gave her some instant relief but strangely enough it took Swim another 3 months to recover totally.
Swim has never used heroine since so that was a big step forward but still she wanted desperately to get off methadone.

So.. 4 years later Swim decided to use up her savings and go to some faraway continent and give it another try.
Swim was enjoying a year of climbing the Andes and watching birds in the Amazone but as soon as Swim got as low as 5 mgs the withdrawal got unbearable again and Swim stayed ill for months on end.
Swim had very stupidly flushed nearly all of her methadone through the toilet in Peru. Therefore she had no choice but to remain on 5 mgs a day, thinking that eventually she would start feeling better again.
But Swim didn't get better and once back home started taking more methadone again.

Swim did some research and was told by medics that there definitely are more (longterm!) methadone-users who do not recover physically after detoxing. Her docter, who is quite knowledgeable about opiods, states that longterm methadone(ab)use can change ''something in that particular part of the brain that regulates pain and ones sense of wellbeing''. This doesn't mean that it causes permanent braindamage only that with some people this part of the brain does not function normally without methadone anymore.
They don't know yet what causes this exactly or what to do about it and there has never been any thorough research on this phenomena (why pumping money in research for some stupid dope-addicts..)
Therefor all doctors advise Swim to stay on methadone for the rest of her life.
But this is something that Swim won't accept.

So, after working very hard for another 4 years Swim saved a little money and is now in a foreign country once again. This time Swim managed to get from 45 to 7,5 mgs of methadone. Nowadays Swim also has the option of switching to subutex later on.
Swim clings to this last sparkle of hope: maybe she will finally be able to get off methadone by switching to subutex once she is down on 5 mgs of meth.
Until now Swim only has mild WD-symptoms; some insomnia, muscle-aches and restless legs at night, some sweating and a little diarrea but this is by far not as bad as it was 7 years ago on the same 7,5 mgs of methadone.
Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Swim has been off heroine for over 6 years now and therefor does not have to kick a double habit.

Because Swim is very, very stubborn she still refuses to believe that it's impossible for her to get off methadone so she wants to give it one last, ultimate try. However, if she is not succeeding once again, Swim will finally give in and stay on methadone for the rest of her life.

Swim would very much like to hear experiences from anybody out here who has been using methadone for over 15 or 20 years and has succesfully detoxed with the help of subutex by the way! Good luck to all of you.

[IkBenDeMan]

Originally Posted by Santa

I just happened to stumble upon this post and this Swim IS 'Afriendofmine'.

This is Swim's story of her neverending battle with methadone: at age 14 Swim fell in love with a teacher with some truly bad habits, such as shooting up speed and H and having no problem with Swim doing the same thing. So Swim started to use speed (IV) and switched to heroine within a
year. Since she wanted to lead a 'normal life' Swim tried to detox at age 16 and was put on methadone (something which was done way too eagerly in the Netherlands in the eighties). This only resulted in a double addiction: Swim used at least 50 mgs methadone + a few shots of heroine daily back then.
At age 19 Swim managed to graduate from highschool and tried to kick the habit once again before going to university.
She managed to do so succesfully and stayed clean for over 6 months. The detox was a breeze compared to what Swim went through later on in life since she had 'only' been addicted for 5 years or so. Unfortunately Swim was still very much addicted mentally at the time so she started to use again without any particular reason whatsoever. Something that won't surpise some of you.
In no time Swim used 75 mgs of methadone again and she was shooting up more and more heroine every day.
However, somehow Swim still managed to have a more or less normal life. Swim was very hard on herself and believed that she had to work instead of committing crimes or doing anything else she would regret later on in life. Needless to say, all her well-earned money ended up in her arms. Nobody except her boyfriend knew anything about Swim's longterm addiction at the time so Swim had a double life for years.
Obviously Swim didn't earn enough money to maintain this addiction and she hated herself for not being able to get off opioids. So swim started using even more methadone.
When Swim was 31 she fell in love with a guy who surprisingly wasn't addicted to anything. He didn't even smoke. He respected Swim - addicted as she was and all - and stayed by her side when Swim decided to give it another try.

With his help Swim quit heroine for good and started to detox methadone again. Swim did this very gradually, only reducing her dose with 5 mgs a month but once she came down to 10 mgs the nightmare began.
Swim was already used to the months of sweating, the insomnia, the sneezing and the diarrea but suddenly even worse symptoms started to set in: Swim got severe musclepains in her back and started to loose a lot of weight but the worst part was that Swim had a bloathed stomach all day which caused her severe and continuous pain.
Still, Swim decided to continue her detox and within 3 more months she managed to get down to 0 methadon. She thought that these
withdrawalsymptoms would slowly disappear in a few months but the pain only grew worse and sometimes Swim couldn't even go to the toilet for days in a roll (a very rare phenomena when kicking the habit ).
Swim was getting desperate by then and had herself thoroughly checked out in the hospital but nothing was found except Irritable Bowel Syndrome (thank god, thought Swim).
Later Swim tried several anti-depressants, hoping that a depression could be the cause of all this without her being aware of it but nothing worked.
Finally Swim tried naltrexone but this too didn't make any difference whatsoever.
Nine months went by and there was still no improvement. Swim tried to go out and walk a little but was too weak to this very often. Swim
showered 6 times a day to get a little warm. But most of all Swim started to get very pissed because she wanted to feel better and get her life back.

By then Swim just had to start working again to make a living because Swim and her boyfriend aren't millionairs. So finally she had to get back on methadone again, there was no other option. Swim had been sick for almost a year by then.
The methadone gave her some instant relief but strangely enough it took Swim another 3 months to recover totally.
Swim has never used heroine since so that was a big step forward but still she wanted desperately to get off methadone.

So.. 4 years later Swim decided to use up her savings and go to some faraway continent and give it another try.
Swim was enjoying a year of climbing the Andes and watching birds in the Amazone but as soon as Swim got as low as 5 mgs the withdrawal got unbearable again and Swim stayed ill for months on end.
Swim had very stupidly flushed nearly all of her methadone through the toilet in Peru. Therefore she had no choice but to remain on 5 mgs a day, thinking that eventually she would start feeling better again.
But Swim didn't get better and once back home started taking more methadone again.

Swim did some research and was told by medics that there definitely are more (longterm!) methadone-users who do not recover physically after detoxing. Her docter, who is quite knowledgeable about opiods, states that longterm methadone(ab)use can change ''something in that particular part of the brain that regulates pain and ones sense of wellbeing''. This doesn't mean that it causes permanent braindamage only that with some people this part of the brain does not function normally without methadone anymore.
They don't know yet what causes this exactly or what to do about it and there has never been any thorough research on this phenomena (why pumping money in research for some stupid dope-addicts..)
Therefor all doctors advise Swim to stay on methadone for the rest of her life.
But this is something that Swim won't accept.

So, after working very hard for another 4 years Swim saved a little money and is now in a foreign country once again. This time Swim managed to get from 45 to 7,5 mgs of methadone. Nowadays Swim also has the option of switching to subutex later on.
Swim clings to this last sparkle of hope: maybe she will finally be able to get off methadone by switching to subutex once she is down on 5 mgs of meth.
Until now Swim only has mild WD-symptoms; some insomnia, muscle-aches and restless legs at night, some sweating and a little diarrea but this is by far not as bad as it was 7 years ago on the same 7,5 mgs of methadone.
Maybe this has something to do with the fact that Swim has been off heroine for over 6 years now and therefor does not have to kick a double habit.

Because Swim is very, very stubborn she still refuses to believe that it's impossible for her to get off methadone so she wants to give it one last, ultimate try. However, if she is not succeeding once again, Swim will finally give in and stay on methadone for the rest of her life.

Swim would very much like to hear experiences from anybody out here who has been using methadone for over 15 or 20 years and has succesfully detoxed with the help of subutex by the way! Good luck to all of you.

I just wanted to comment, that even if one isn't self-medicating, per se, they might be. SWIM was addicted to oxycontin and had terrible insomnia during withdrawals. However, his insomnia persisted for sometime thereafter. He was later diagnosed with bi-polar disorder. Thus, opiates greatly helped during the manic phases, and he just wasn't used to suffering many of the symptoms. SWIM is also Irritable Bowel, and can say that it is one of the reasons SWIM's so often drawn back to opiates after detoxing. He experiences unbearable pains that literally have made him fall to the ground before, however, never once any pain while on opiates... he must also note that his insomnia did get better around a year and a half when he did take a long time off.... a lot of it, he thinks, is just learning to deal with the stress of daily life.

Reputation Comments on this post:

helpfull post

[fpShooter]

swim doesn't has much expereince with methadon, but i still wanted to reply to your comment because swim is adicted to heroine for 24 years now so i know what you mean and go through. swims expereince with methadon is only 3 periodes. all the 3 periodes swim kept on using heroine, and thats why he stopped every time with methadon. the first one was only a few weeks, and the second time 3 months and the last periode took 7 months. it took me then 1 month to get over it, and in the mean time he used double the dosis of heroine.
he knows of one guy that was very sick for 4 moths after quiting methadon and heroine all together. when someone uses heroine dayly for years and quit a large dosis the sickness can take up to 6 weeks, for sure that it never takes longer then 8 weeks. and the guy was still very sick after 4 months, so it didn't look like he would get better soon.
a dockter told swim ones that it takes methadon much more time to leave the body because the atoms are much larger as those of heroine.
one other thing, you said;
"...Swim got severe musclepains in her back,..."
most people expereince that,swim also, but this is not your back that is hurting, although it feels like it, (in the lower back), but these are your kidnees that are hurting, (hope swim did write this well enough, swim is Dutch, not English).
still, swim believes that one can come loose of methadon, but it just takes a very, very long time to do so. it sounds stupid, but when she realy wants to get rif of it and it can't be done in another way, for instance long vacantions etc. then she could considder to start using heroine again for 2 years, without any use of methadon, and then stop again. that mait help, but this cost a lot of money and swim does agree that it maybe isn't the best way to do so. but success is there he thinks, the heroine will stop the methadon pain.

for swim there no methadon, those first 3 periodes where enough for swim to know that he doesn't get a kick out of methadon, as how he gets it with heroine. so, he can't stop, have tried that 11 times over the 24 year, therefore he just uses only heroine with some canabis.

success, and hope you can succeed!

[ojos_de_brujo]

Heroin would most certainly stop the pain. But getting back on heroin is not even worth consideration in this case.
It's not that it is a stupid thought, it is said to be easier to come off heroin than coming of methadon, but in this case Subutex will also do the trick in a halal sheep's opinion.

SWISPY-maps is not on methadon because he doesn't get a kick out of it?!
Although some users can get 'a kick' out of methadon, this is not essential when one is actually trying to stop using, is it?

Swim believes Santa is doing great. Changing to Subutex is a very good idea, even if it turns out not to work for Santa, it is definitely worth a try.
Swim believes Santa's stubbornness will pay off.

Swim also wishes SPY-maps a lot of success.

Funny to see 3 Dutch speeking people having a conversation in English.

[Santa]

Swim above has a point: switching to heroine again wouldn't be a good idea since this swim could have bought a mansion from the money she spent on all the dope in her life and also because Swim is finally not craving for heroine anymore after 6 years. (Swim wil de kat niet op het spek binden ;-)
So Swim decided to spend her money in taking some time off and tapering her methadon. Spy-maps has a point that - once on heroine - it's better to stay on it instead of taking methadone.. because it's way more difficult to quit meth.. but this wouldn't work for this Swim because she would then be on heroine AND methadone in no time since she can't afford using heroine every day and gets methadone for free in Amsterdam..
Swim is not in a hurry to get off methadone because she is already feeling like shit. But Swim will try subutex as soon as she's up to it.
Swim has tried quiting methadone on long vacations (over 8 months) but it hasn't worked. The problem is that Swim has some weird stomach disease which has no cure and is worse than the withdrawalsymptoms, so Swim thinks that this might be the reason that she is not succeeding. Anyway, Swim will keep on trying.
By the way.. Swim will keep you posted about the results.

[fpShooter]

swim said indeed; that he didn't get a kick out of using methadon, and ment that also so. because swim is normaly (and also with the use of heroine) a very creative guy, (is illustrator in daytime job, and makes as hobby video game levels - leveldesign). but, as soon as he uses methadon a odd kind of sad and not feeling creative at all feeling comes over him. meth is just to chemical for him. that, together with the fact that getting of methadon takes so much time to get off it again(at least 1 year to much more) after having used it for years in a quit high dosis. and also doesn't make methadon that swim stops using heroine, so he just ends up with 2 adictions.
all this together makes that i only take it when i have to less money to buy my heroine, what only happens 1 or 2 times a month.
still, heroine is much to expensive to lead a normal life, that's true!!

there is a program (or was) in the Netherlands, that you could get heroine on dockters orders for free. but this was done when you only agreed to using together with methadon, (because they only can give you 3 times a day/9,13 and 17 hours. and you can't take it with you, you have to use it there. and because you need then for the night, that's why they make you use also meth. to get through the night). that's why i didn't take heroine from the dockter for free.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Swim thinks it's great SPY-maps has such a nice job and hobby.
Swim always needed to believe it is impossible to have a life on drugs, since that thought makes it easier for her to stay away from heroin.

[Santa]

This Swim can relate to SPY-maps. Swim also managed to have a good job whilst on heroine. She even made some promotion (Swim did have to slip out at lunchtime to take her fix though ;-). It can be possible to be on heroine and have a normal life, depending on your income, character etc... However, you must be able to control yourself and never use more than you can afford. Which is very difficult, Swim admits.
However, one will always be dependent of either methadone or heroine and this Swim hates that. It doesn't feel like real freedom..
Swim likes to travel a lot and had great difficulties bringing her medication with her because it's illegal in most countries, even accompanied by a letter of your medic... That's one more reason why Swim wants to get off methadone so desperately..

[fpShooter]

it's indeed illegal in most countries, even accompanied by a letter of your medic... , or it takes months to get all the papers for it.
am glad this swim doesn't like to travel, strange maybe but true.
with heroine you can get very old, it only costs a whole lot of money, even in the Netherlands where i think the heroine is the cheapest. swim payes for xxxxxxxx, but then it's a real gram no 08, grm. swim hopes this is aloud to say on this site, don't know for sure. don't have commercial meanings with this what i said, so...
about wanting to always use more and more, this is for swim the last 3 to 4 years very easy because swim uses the last few years heroine by sniffing it, (through the nose). swim used it for 20 years by smoking it from aluminium foly, (chinesen). but swim did get such problems with his air pipes in his chest, and with his longs. that he looked like a old men when walked up a stairs. that was what made swim sniffing it, and that makes that swim can't use more then 1,5 gr on one day. because otherwise he gets terrible headaches, because of the sniffing.

PRICES ARE NOT ALLOWED.

[Santa]

It seems like all Swims here are Dutch or at least Dutch-speaking, haha
Swim is still trying to get off methadone by the way and is now on 7 mgs which is quite a milestone for Swim. Swim has ordered some kratom to see if this will help her ease the withdrawalsymptoms as soon as she is down to 0 methadone in about 6 weeks time. Swim does not expect a miracle from using kratom but it's worth a try anyway.
By the way, Swim thinks that Spy-maps is lucky paying so little because Swim payed a lot more in Amsterdam but Swim also thinks it's not allowed to mention this on the forum..

[fpShooter]

simw could also use otherwise Depronal, it's a muzzel relaxer, (hope i did spell this well). after you are stopped with the methadon.
to go from 7 to 0 in 6 weeks time is a good way to do it. it's still very fast, but it can be done, i think/gess. although it will be a very hard path to take.
you could go down 1 drop/pil in a week, and take the last pil/drop in 2 times, so lower it with a half in one week. but, like always, will the last one be the hardest to do. a dokter explained it to me ones like this. when you go from 6 to 5 it's not so hard as to go from 1 to zero, compairing it with a cake. when you have a cake and cut it in 6 slizes, then one such slize is very small. but when you go from one to zero, then it's from one cake to no cake at all.
sounds a bit silly maybe, but looking at it like that makes you understand why it's so hard to go through those last few ones.

still, lots of success.

maybe i will give it soon a try again to stop,. next week i relocate to a new house,would be a great new start.

[Santa]

I am on 7,5 mlgs! Not 7 pills. I only take 1,5 pill a day now.. So I am lowering it very, very slowly. I am even cutting my pills in quarters.. In 10 days Swim will take 1 pill + a quarter etc. etc. Then 1, then 3/4 pill, then 1/2 etc. etc.
This may seen a little exagerated for some (as you know in Holland they usually go down with one pill of 5 mgs a week) but it may work for me and that's what matters. It only seems to take forever... but hopefully it will be worth it!
However I did not start as slow as this. When Swim was still on 18 (!!) pills a day she could easily take one less every week without any problem. Once Swim went lower than 5 pills a day (=25 mgs) the problems started. Your 'cake-story' explains why!
By the way: Swim thinks she will not be able to get depronal here in Spain because swim went to see a docter yesterday, hoping that he would give her something to ease the withdrawalsymptoms and this docter said that Swim was an addict and that ''he did not prescribe anything to addicts because coming off methadone was nothing more than the flue''. Obviously Swim left his office totally pissed-off and thinks he doesn't know what the hell he is talking about..
So Swim is going to do it on her own.
Good luck with your new house by the way. A new environment can be a way to quit and old lifestyle..!

[fpShooter]

it's not exagerated at all like how swim is doing it with 1/4 part of a pill. swim did make indeed a mistake with thinking that 7,5 mlgs is 7 pills.
in spain it's all much harder, swim had a girldfriend about 13 years ago that went to her friend in spain to get through the winte.. and she told swim how hard they on drugs are there.
it's true that some dokters compiar coming off methadone is nothing more than the flue'. one said it years ago to swim, and that can make you realy pissed of because it clearly shows that they don't know at all what there talking about!!
you nearly would wish that they would have to go through it, that would make them more understanding.

[ojos_de_brujo]

Hi Spy-maps, can SWIY clean out his inbox please, Swim can not PM SWIY untill he does.

[fpShooter]

Swim just have done so and answered your pm again, think you didn't get sims pm back the first time because the box was indeed full, swim didn't notice this before untill now.

[Santa]

Swim is now almost on 5 mgs (1 pill) of methadone and the withdrawal is starting to get bad. Swim's obscure stomachdisease is hitting her in the face again. Swims stomach is bloathed and it hurts like hell, no cramps just pain. Swim is used to this, the pain was there on 30 mgs of methadon too, it just wasn't as unbearable as it is now. It's worse than the sweating, the sneezing or even the chills and insomnia.

Swim also experiences some weird withdrawalsymptoms. Swim thinks these have something to do with her nervous system being 'confused' due to the gradual lack off opioids:

Swim has a cottonballfeeling in her head, as though Swim is actually in a different galaxy but it doesn't feel nice. Very lightheaded, so Swim can't concentrate and her memory is fucked up. Swim puts the sugar in the fridge and the milk in a cupboard sometimes because she can't even think straight. Swim hopes this will pass in a few months.

Swim can't stand light - especially sunlight - and Swim lives in Spain so Swim wears sunglasses all day long.
Swim has contractions of little muscles all over her body, even in places where Swim didn't even know she had a muscle. It's twitching and rattling all the time, especially at night.
Swim is hearing her own heartbeat in her ears/head at night. Probably because her bloodpressure is going up from the withdrawal. That's driving Swim a little crazy too because Swim would like to get a few houres of sleep now and then.
Swim's legs feel like they are on 100 volts which also doesn't help.

Despite all this swim is still more or less alive and kicking and waiting for her kratom to arrive so she can switch to that as soon as Swim is on 2 mgs of methadone - or preferably less. Swim knows that in case she doesn't make it off methadone she can switch to subutex once she is back home again. So that is a real comfort to Swim.
Swim feels like crap but takes life day by day.
Swim even manages to go out and exercise (well, actually Swim just goes for a little walk but this feels like heavy exercise to Swim).

Has anyone experienced sympoms like the above while kicking methadone? Swim is just curious..