Blanket tolerance for Research Chemicals?

[Nacumen]

Hypothetically, if one were to take 5 different types of the 2c-Xs for 5 days out of the week (which SWIM likely would never do nor recommend), would the tolerance for each particular 2C-X develop independently, or would the tolerance build up for all of the analogues together as quickly as if one took 2C-E every day for 5 days out of the week?

[zera]

Originally Posted by Nacumen

Hypothetically, if one were to take 5 different types of the 2c-Xs for 5 days out of the week (which SWIM likely would never do nor recommend), would the tolerance for each particular 2C-X develop independently, or would the tolerance build up for all of the analogues together as quickly as if one took 2C-E every day for 5 days out of the week?

Cross-tolerance would be very high, they're all phentylamines that operate at the 5-ht receptors. I'm not sure your tolerance would be as high for 2c-e if swiy took 2c-e itself for five days (because the activity at sub-receptors comes in different strengths), but it would be close.

[Nacumen]

Good to know. Case closed, unless there's some dissenting opinion or something someone else wants to add.

[Broshious]

SWIM has read reports on here of a reverse tolerance occuring with respect to the 2Cs, but SWIM has no idea if this will only occur with the 2C being used or across the board:



For swim, it seems to have a reverse tolerance. Once swim took a higher dose of 2c-b, now he needs a lot less to realize the effects. Swim also has no tolerance to anything....


also, reverse tolerance has played a part for swim. he feels that in his early tests, his mind was not in tune to what was going on, so he only noticed the "shallower" effects when he took what he considers low-range doses (8-12mg 2ci, 6-8mg 2c-e). perhaps one's mind becomes more "in-tune" to the changes taking place once it has experienced those changes a few times


SWIM is the same opinion. Reverse Tolerance, interesting, never heard or thought about it but you explained it good. SWIM has made the same experiences. SWIMs doses of 2-CI got lower each time. SWIM wanted to know the full effects of 2-CI and once experienced them he has fun with lower doses.

[boylizard]

Originally Posted by Broshious

SWIM has read reports on here of a reverse tolerance occuring with respect to the 2Cs, but SWIM has no idea if this will only occur with the 2C being used or across the board:



For swim, it seems to have a reverse tolerance. Once swim took a higher dose of 2c-b, now he needs a lot less to realize the effects. Swim also has no tolerance to anything....


also, reverse tolerance has played a part for swim. he feels that in his early tests, his mind was not in tune to what was going on, so he only noticed the "shallower" effects when he took what he considers low-range doses (8-12mg 2ci, 6-8mg 2c-e). perhaps one's mind becomes more "in-tune" to the changes taking place once it has experienced those changes a few times


SWIM is the same opinion. Reverse Tolerance, interesting, never heard or thought about it but you explained it good. SWIM has made the same experiences. SWIMs doses of 2-CI got lower each time. SWIM wanted to know the full effects of 2-CI and once experienced them he has fun with lower doses.

Sounds a lot like the placebo-'Now I know what to expect' effect. Opinions?

[Broshious]

I dunno. I haven't read many people claiming reverse tolerance for any other chems.

[Nacumen]

Perhaps SWIY's source gave inaccurate information on the measurements?

[Nagognog2]

Bongo found that 2-CI taken several days prior to 2-CT-2 would cause the reverse-tolerance effect. By about a factor of two. So tell your monkey to be aware and careful.

[nanobrain]

2C class chems are imnsho commonly misunderstated as to the duration of effects which i believe to be longer than 24 hours for even the shortest acting members.

there is most certainly reverse tolerance - again using my dendritic analogy - at first, you gotta drive a tankful of machete-wielding madmen to clear the debris and lay down a new pathway, but subsequently, a rickshaw pedaled by a one-legged octogenerian can get through, and nowadays, one just has to stand close enough to the forest to see all the way clear...

[renegades]

Gee, aren't we the lucky ones not to build a tolerance to 2C-I. This swim cannot take a 2C without waiting a 8 days from the previous 2C or DOX experience. If she does not wait, it is a wasteful doing a 2C or DOX because she will not achieve the same buzz as before, and one thinks what could have been but cannot be achieved due to tolerance. The vivid visuals are watered down and music does not have that 3d effect as before, so to sum it up, a complete waste of an RC and a day to be disappointed. This swim does not think one can do a 2C 5 days in a row without building a tolerance quick by like the third day. On the fifth day swim probably will never feel the effects of the 2C expect maybe a speedy sensation.

[fastandbulbous]

Well the receptor they all have in common (the tryptamines/phenethylamine being the 'they' being referred to, RC are not a chemical or pharmacological group, it's more of a 'odds & sods' accumulation) is the 5HT2a receptor. That's the important one for tolerance developing. Of the PEAs, some like DOI almost exclusively 5HT2a/5HT2c agents; some of the other amphetamine derived compounds also target the DAT mechanism (dopamine reuptake) and cause the serotonin reuptake mechanism to 'go into reverse). The tryptamines also act at 5HT1a/1d receptors, but they're mostly just resopnsible for subjective differences in the feel of the experience (The dreamlike quality of the tryptamines probably lies in their secondary action At LHT1 subtypes. LSD is so bloody promiscuous and goes for noradrenergic, dopaminergic, just about every grouping of the 5HT receptors and even histamine dependany receptors as well - and most probably why LSD is so unique in feel), but all essentially being similar in nature; even the methylenedioxy compounds are very weak at the receptor).

The strength & persistance of the tolerance is probably individual to each differernt compound, being affected by receptor affinity & half life of that particular drug. It would catch up with you eventually though as different compounds added their bit to the group pot (and as they say, too many cooks can spoill the broth!)

Reputation Comments on this post:

another excellent post! You are highly valued here.

[kaliwraith]

Curiously, SWIM has had a problem with a sort of "tolerance" that only applies to the effect of psychedelics on the mind. Once, SWIM tripped 300 mg DXM with 3 LSD tabs and was unprepared for the intense (and LONG) trip (far more intense than anything he has ever done) that followed. Ever since, he has been rarely able to trip hard enough to "feel sober" in his head, despite euphoria, hallucinations, and other effects. The first time he IV'd ~25 mg of 2c-e, which was the first time he IV'd any 2c-e (in 3 injections over about 30 minutes) was one of those times, another was a time in which he took 540 mg of DXM, which proved to be nicely unsettling (he weighs 135 lbs).

Any time since any of those three times, doing the same dosage (even 60 mg 2c-e injected over 5 injections over 3.5 hours) led to nothing more than mere physical effects. 5 hits of LSD in combination with 30 mg 2c-e oral gave him some emotional strangeness, but he could have still held a normal conversation with a parent or anyone as his cognitive function is left untouched.

That is definitely a blanket tolerance for psychedelics, a bit off topic, but relevant nonetheless.

[trptamene]

Please note IV RC use increases risk over an order of magnitude...IMO

Having said that, for those researchers who pursue this:

A detailed experience report on less-common routes of use like IV/IM/SC or even insufflated, rectal, vaginal, sublingual and vaporized would definately be nice contributions.

[eltimmy]

LSD is so bloody promiscuous

This is just about my favorite pharmacological lingo evar.